Goodbye Qantas

[boomy]

But it's a false economy for the airline.

Eg. My example earlier of booking a flex fare $200 cheaper and then switching to the peak/more expensive flights.

VA restricted fly ahead to same bucket (and have enforced it) after they discovered a number of Plat members where consistently booking the cheapest last flight of the day, then flying earlier.

It's all about the customer attitude.
Get moved once - oh great Qantas saw my loyalty and saved me $110, but I know they mightn't do it always
Get charged - I'm off. Qantas never rewards loyalty. I'm sick of them enforcing the conditions I agreed to

You have a point there but I don't agree it's all about the customer attitude, it's also about the airline attitude.

There used to be fully flexy fare where no change fee was required IIRC. For some reason QF no longer offer it and pax like the OP who are willing to purchase the most expensive Y fare are still forced to pay difference fee. Now QF is about to loose a rare and loyal business customer, that's also false economy for the airline.

 

[Quickstatus]

You have a point there but I don't agree it's all about the customer attitude, it's also about the airline attitude.

There used to be fully flexy fare where no change fee was required IIRC. For some reason QF no longer offer it and pax like the OP who are willing to purchase the most expensive Y fare are still forced to pay difference fee. Now QF is about to loose a rare and loyal business customer, that's also false economy for the airline.

Some of the finger should be pointed at Qantas.

The company loves to heavily promote good new stories, but quietly changes the fare conditions and rejigs the fare categories without much fanfare.

Currently Qantas does not have to publish their most expensive fare. This works in their favour as some passengers will think the flexible fare is attractively priced and they can increase their maximum fare without scrutiny let alone criticism.

Now the only time anyone will have any idea of the maximum fare is to buy a Y ticket or when they change a flight with a Flex fare and they get hit with the difference.

Tricky?

 

[Anna]

Except Anna, the OP did not buy the most expensive flex ticket. He bought the Flex ticket as it was priced on the day of purchase

I didn't say he bought the most expensive flex ticket - I said he bought the most expensive flex ticket he could buy. And we're in furious agreement because your description is he bought the Flex ticket as it was priced on the day of purchase

That's the exact problem. You make the totally reasonable assumption you're booking the top of the range fare because it's the most expensive one you can see and it's called a flex, but actually it's not the top of the range because unbeknownst to you the QF website isn't even offering that to you that day. Pretty tricky by QF, IMO - it's arguably misleading or deceptive conduct under the Aust Consumer Law for QF to call it a flex when it's only a flex depending on circumstances that the website purchaser has no control over.

 

[ReLoad]

To me it's all about the wording, he bought a "Flex" which really isn't a flex, and I totally empathise with the OP. Will Qantas sell 30 seats in the next hour for that flight? I wouldn't think so.

Back in the days, if you were HLO you could go standby, which basically got you on the next plane to depart with a seat on it. To me, that's what a flex wanting to travel on an earlier flight should be.

With 10 minutes to go before departure, call out the names, just like AA do, and hey presto you are on your way, with the airline being as flexible as they can be.

I'm with the OP it's not like he did anything wrong, bought a "Flex" which is QF speak for "Not Flex unless you pay".

The OP has a bitter pill to swallow because of all those years and the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent, even paying a high price in an effort to get flexibility.

 

[Quickstatus]

Thats a reasonable POV. The OP was not tricked though. Reload and Anna, He knew about this back in 2015 if you look back through his posts. On one level I dont get his logic. He says he would have bought the most expensive ticket if the airline would sell them (like in the days of the fully flexible fare). Why would anyone buy the most expensive ticket which has the same conditions as a cheaper flex fare?. The difference is then only payable if he changed the flight. Isnt it better to buy the cheaper (even if its the most expensive on the day) and top up the difference without any change fees later only if required?

Agree Anna, QF a bit tricky here as per my post #42

 

[serfty]

...
Going forward: Virgin has a published Gold and Platinum benefit of "Fly Ahead". This allows an any fare passengers to request a seat on an earlier flight if the the same or lower fare bucket is still available on that earlier flight. ( Request in VA lounge).The restriction is that the same or lower fare bucket must be available on the fly ahead flight. The higher your fare bucket the higher the chances of fly ahead if a seat is available. Of course this is only available if no checked luggage.
...

In application, the aspect of the rule regarding fare class availability is basically not enforced. (Of course, that could change anytime.)

 

[Quickstatus]

Serfty,

Have you tried an UpgradeMepoints for a transpacific VA flight? Say PE to Z? How long after request did the upgrade occur?

 

[medhead]

That's one way to look at it.

The other way is that it's you who have elected to put $110 before continuing your relationship with an airline you have presumably enjoyed flying with for many years, whereas Qantas was just enforcing their terms & conditions equally and without discrimination.

I would say that they're giving up the relationship because Qantas has failed to reciprocate the loyalty that the OP has shown Qantas. That realisation is a shock that vastly outweighs a monetary amount like $110.

 

[moa999]

I'm sure a TA or Qantas telephone sales will happily sell you a full Y SYD-CBR ticket for $530 which is probably the only truly flexible ticket

 

[opusman]

That's the exact problem. You make the totally reasonable assumption you're booking the top of the range fare because it's the most expensive one you can see and it's called a flex, but actually it's not the top of the range because unbeknownst to you the QF website isn't even offering that to you that day. Pretty tricky by QF, IMO - it's arguably misleading or deceptive conduct under the Aust Consumer Law for QF to call it a flex when it's only a flex depending on circumstances that the website purchaser has no control over.

I don't see how its misleading when the fare conditions are clearly stated that any fare difference will be charged for changes.

Say they'd charged him the $110 up front (i.e. sold him the most expensive flex ticket from the outset), and then he hadn't needed to change. How would the OP have been better off in that situation?

 

[basso]

I'm sure a TA or Qantas telephone sales will happily sell you a full Y SYD-CBR ticket for $530 which is probably the only truly flexible ticket

Qantas don't really sell anything that is a truly flexible domestic economy ticket (possible corporate deals aside). It only may offer some sdditional flexibility in this case, by virtue of being a Y tocket, but it isn;t fully flexible,

 

[Deleted member]

I think the real issue here is that we will all get hot under the collar when QF "won't or don't " stick to the rules, and then are equally offended when they do !!
There are plenty of threads on this site where we grumble about how the ground staff don't correctly recognise our status and access rights, to the point where we are recommended we carry a printed copy of the T's & C's. I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

 

[Quickstatus]

I don't see how its misleading when the fare conditions are clearly stated that any fare difference will be charged for changes.

Say they'd charged him the $110 up front (i.e. sold him the most expensive flex ticket from the outset), and then he hadn't needed to change. How would the OP have been better off in that situation?

I think he gets that, he just thought that being a WP with $40k spend per year that his PCV would be enough in QF's mind to "bend the rules". Unfortunately and same applies to most of us is that the loyalty is a one way street and rule bending requires something like a CLPO with possibly double that spend. I'm sure at times the airline do bend to rules but he expected from prior experience that it would bend the rules everytime

The loyalty programs are just that - programs. True loyalty is unwritten. We mugs are just enrolled in a program with defined benefits. Assuming that it is more than the 4 corners of the paper it's written on is likely to end in tears.

Status= hamster running in a wheel to get food.

 

[cmon0005]

Just as a data point I regularly travel on 'flex' fares normally in H class, almost every time I request earlier flight in J lounge even on a Friday afternoon out of syd I've always been moved without fuss, even when EF is only showing Y3 for example. No fare difference either. Maybe you just got a bad lounge attendant?

 

[Red Roo]

My letter to Alan Joyce:...

I'm sorry to hear of this unhappy experience, and your subsequent decision to never fly with Qantas wherever possible.

If you have indeed submitted this letter to Alan, or even if you haven't, I'd appreciate an opportunity to follow up with you.

Please send me a private message with your details as reference.

 

[Quickstatus]

Just as a data point I regularly travel on 'flex' fares normally in H class, almost every time I request earlier flight in J lounge even on a Friday afternoon out of syd I've always been moved without fuss, even when EF is only showing Y3 for example. No fare difference either. Maybe you just got a bad lounge attendant?

I think thats the way to look at it - with little or no expectations. If it happens good. 2 possibilities - either the H fare was still available on the inventory or you actually got some discretionary flexibility. To expect it everytime in the future would not necessarily be unreasonable but likely will end in tears when it does not happen.

Easier to travel without expectations.

 

[JohnK]

I think the real issue here is that we will all get hot under the collar when QF "won't or don't " stick to the rules, and then are equally offended when they do !!

Like always it is the inconsistency and how it is applied. One rule for some and another rule for others.

Qantas has done me favours in the past by moving me to an earlier flight, "just this once". They have also done me other favours by waiving fees, fare differences etc over the phone.

And here we have a Platinum on an expensive flexible airfare and they were trying to enforce a piddly $110 fare difference where earlier flights had light loads.

That's poor customer service and this thread on AFF does not do Qantas any good.

 

[Quickstatus]

Like always it is the inconsistency and how it is applied. One rule for some and another rule for others.

Qantas has done me favours in the past by moving me to an earlier flight, "just this once". They have also done me other favours by waiving fees, fare differences etc over the phone.

And here we have a Platinum on an expensive flexible airfare and they were trying to enforce a piddly $110 fare difference where earlier flights had light loads.

That's poor customer service and this thread on AFF does not do Qantas any good.

In order to get that level of consistent "enhanced" service/loyalty P1 or CLPO is the place to be. For WP and below unfortunately it's just "simpler and fairer"

 

[JohnK]

In order to get that level of consistent "enhanced" service/loyalty P1 or CLPO is the place to be. For WP and below unfortunately it's just "simpler and fairer"

It shouldn't be that difficult to provide consistent customer service.

But then again I do realise that in society in general we encourage mediocrity and it is harder to lose a job that it is to get a job.

 

[Quickstatus]

A small business or sole trader tend to provides more consistent service at a high level over a long period of time than a large company with thousands of employees.

I would say say howrver that Qantas by many indicators have improved their customer experience.

Does the grounding of the airline still sit raw in the minds of the employees?