Goodbye Qantas

[downgraded]

I had been going to suggest that. If only you got SCs for the flights you paid for rather than the flights you took...

 

[michaele]

The bigger issue is not whether QF should have bent the rules - but rather what is the point of an inflexible Flex fare??

 

[OzEire]

And ultimately you don't know what the full price fare is. You won't know what the max price difference is when you buy the ticket. Allowing QF to increase the max price without much pushback because the only people who will buy that fare are those who are changing the flight, last minute desperadoes and downgrades. In these cases the fare will be unpublished.

Kind of like asking a specialist tradesman to quote for a job you don't have any clue about. Tradie can give any quote they like... How would you know if this is reasonable or even required. With an airline ticket you can get other quotes if you want, but you've already been locked in with your ticketing carrier !

 

[Austman]

My explanation for that is different staff have different access levels in the system (which is a fairly normal feature of security access in computer information systems). So when I think "depends who you get", it also depends on what level of access they have and also what level of authority they have.

Doubt that it makes any difference in the lounges. I've been knocked back, several times, even by the international/domestic-connections check-in desks. And they, IME have more authority than just about anyone in the check-in process.

 

[moa999]

The bigger issue is not whether QF should have bent the rules - but rather what is the point of an inflexible Flex fare??

It's flexible in the sense that there is no change fee, and you can change it on day of travel (something that you can't do with the red e-deals)
It still has a change fee.

Re which agents have the most power,
Ive always found the Service Desks (particularly in MEL) to be the most helpful - eg. willing to ring gates and get you on (it helps that you are often much closer to the gates)

 

[Edge]

Wow, the Qantas marks are strong in this thread. It should be a matter of common sense. You pay a premium for a flexible ticket, you should be entitled to that flexibility if there is a seat in the same travel class available. If the customer is forced to pay the difference in fare bucket, what's to stop Qantas from increasing any unsold seats on the day of departure to the top fare bucket, regardless of availability, to essentially render any "cheaper" flexible tickets useless? It's cough!

From my own experience on VA I've never been refused Fly Ahead if there has been an available seat, even if there's been only higher fare bucket tickets available. Their policy has always seemed to be "if there's an available seat, you can have it" - even from BNE on Friday when I went from the 4pm to 2pm flight and it was packed (best seat they could assign me was row 17 in the middle).

If you're only flying domestic economy I don't think you'll go wrong with VA.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

The question is do lounge staff have discretion themselves to do it?

And they have told me, several separate times, in different QPs, that they don't. So I don't see the point is claiming that it might depend on which staff member you ask.

They have all been very nice but have had to refuse me when the system didn't allow the change.

My explanation for that is different staff have different access levels in the system (which is a fairly normal feature of security access in computer information systems).

So when I think "depends who you get", it also depends on what level of access they have and also what level of authority they have.

There may be different levels of system access however that does not give anyone the green light to move someone who is on a non changeable fare unless of course pax is CL or P1.

Lounge staff have no more authority to make changes than CSA's on checkin.

I inderstand that 'X' class award bookings are treated as flexible fares on the day if there are 'X' seats available of course.

If there is some kind of disruption eg adverse weather, u/s aircraft etc and there is a 'flow forward' in place, any pax in any class can be moved without penalty if there is a seat available in the same cabin as ticketed ie the original fare bucket does not have to be available.

Any movement of pax's flights on restricted fares is easily tracked back to the CSA who made the change so obviously staff despite wanting to move the pax are required to adhere to company policy.

 

[moa999]

From my own experience on VA I've never been refused Fly Ahead if there has been an available seat, even if there's been only higher fare bucket tickets available.

If you're only flying domestic economy I don't think you'll go wrong with VA.

That was my experience when VA Plat, but I do know the case of one person (running their own business) that only ever booked the cheapest last flight of the day and relied on this -- let's just say they began experiencing more lounge time

 

[Quickstatus]

Ozbeachbabe, So any discretionary flexibility perceived by passengers to be supplied by the company is no more than what the computer system allows?

If true then its no point demanding to see a "supervisor"?

There are many stories of supervisors enabling a previously impossible request. Most recently Ive had a Qf domestic checkin at SYD saying he was unable to check through my luggage onto an subsequent international QF and a separate PNR AA sector. (SYD-MEL-LAX-DEN). I said "It was done last time" to which he immediately referred it to another person who enabled it.

 

[Edge]

That was my experience when VA Plat, but I do know the case of one person (running their own business) that only ever booked the cheapest last flight of the day and relied on this -- let's just say they began experiencing more lounge time

Fair call, once again the "common sense" approach probably caught up with your acquaintance.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

During the time of the last QF 767s flights around Australia, my first am flight from SYD to MEL for which I booked, was supposed to a 767.
Did OLCI the day before and, and the plane was swapped to become a 737.
Went to the general sales counter at check in, and was told they couldn't do anything, as I had to phone up QF telephone sales.
So sad, I took myself up to the QP to console myself.
As mentioned on here at that time, was told that sometimes, QP staff can do magic.
Went to have a look at the gate at 5.15am or so, when the SYD dom terminal opens in the morning.
There it was, that dreaded but now norm 737, grr.
Went up to the QP and asked nicely, the Lounge Dragon did her magic, changed me to a 767 dep 7.45am SYD dom - MEL dom that same day, which was the last ever 767 I ever took.
This was after the first time I met JessicaTam at ADL QP.
So, QP staff in some instances can override the sales staff at the general counters.

 

[Austman]

So, QP staff in some instances can override the sales staff at the general counters.

That was a trip using points? They can have the strange ability, as noted, of being flexible (maybe only to QP staff?) on the day. I still suspect it was a computer says "yes" moment for them.

 

[downgraded]

You hit the nail on the head. Fares do change on a continuous basis based on yield management, supply and demand, and probably also to take the opportunity to fleece business folk who "must" travel on specific flights or no notice.

2 out of 2 flight cancellations on my last VA experience, but irrelevant to the question of getting what you sign up for vs an expectation of entitlement.

 

[TheInsider]

Ozbeachbabe, So any discretionary flexibility perceived by passengers to be supplied by the company is no more than what the computer system allows?

If true then its no point demanding to see a "supervisor"?

1. There is no discretionary flexibility allowed to staff in any normal circumstances. If the moves are done, they are either done because the staff member is disregarding the rules (company policy) or there are circumstances where non-changeable tickets can be changed (as described earlier) or by having a flexible ticket with the same fare class available.

2. Absolutely no point in speaking to a supervisor, they won't do it unless required to.


Also QP staff have no extra authority to move non-flex fares than any other person at the airport.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

1. There is no discretionary flexibility allowed to staff in any normal circumstances. If the moves are done, they are either done because the staff member is disregarding the rules (company policy) or there are circumstances where non-changeable tickets can be changed (as described earlier) or by having a flexible ticket with the same fare class available.

2. Absolutely no point in speaking to a supervisor, they won't do it unless required to.


Also QP staff have no extra authority to move non-flex fares than any other person at the airport.

Sounds to me the lounge staff could be replaced by computers......

 

[boomy]

1. There is no discretionary flexibility allowed to staff in any normal circumstances. If the moves are done, they are either done because the staff member is disregarding the rules (company policy) or there are circumstances where non-changeable tickets can be changed (as described earlier) or by having a flexible ticket with the same fare class available.

2. Absolutely no point in speaking to a supervisor, they won't do it unless required to.


Also QP staff have no extra authority to move non-flex fares than any other person at the airport.

Not according to my experience and others I know on and outside AFF.

Once upon a time when WP was the highest tier FlyAhead wasn't so uncommon.
Sometimes I was not allowed, then asked to speak to supervisor and they would allow it.

 

[Quickstatus]

1. There is no discretionary flexibility allowed to staff in any normal circumstances. If the moves are done, they are either done because the staff member is disregarding the rules (company policy) or there are circumstances where non-changeable tickets can be changed (as described earlier) or by having a flexible ticket with the same fare class available.

2. Absolutely no point in speaking to a supervisor, they won't do it unless required to.


Also QP staff have no extra authority to move non-flex fares than any other person at the airport.

Maybe you are right, but my experience suggests otherwise. Maybe I am assuming that the flexibility arises from human intervention rather than what comes up on the computer screen

 

[Austman]

Not according to my experience and others I know on and outside AFF. Once upon a time when WP was the highest tier FlyAhead wasn't so uncommon. Sometimes I was not allowed, then asked to speak to supervisor and they would allow it.

Yes we know. But that was years ago and hardly relevant to the situation today. A LOT has changed since then and my experiences are since then. It seemed to get really restrictive only a few years ago. Go back long enough and even more was possible.

 

[Austman]

Maybe you are right, but my experience suggests otherwise. Maybe I am assuming that the flexibility arises from human intervention rather than what comes up on the computer screen

And there is co-incidence. A lot of times fly-forward is active and there's no problems changing.

 

[Quickstatus]

And there is co-incidence. A lot of times fly-forward is active and there's no problems changing.

When is fly forward activated?