Goodbye Qantas

[yohy?!]

Airlines should love what flex fares do for yield so why they don't bend over backwards to sell them is just bizarre, on the triangle routes they clearly have plenty of seats going empty so why not have a fare class that locks in (a higher) fare price and can be changed on a whim.

This seems too hard right now for airlines to either get the IT correct for (both VA and QF fail on this) or the fare conditions (which now add discounted fare restrictions to no-longer 'flexible' tickets).

 

[OATEK]

I don't see how its misleading when the fare conditions are clearly stated that any fare difference will be charged for changes.

Say they'd charged him the $110 up front (i.e. sold him the most expensive flex ticket from the outset), and then he hadn't needed to change. How would the OP have been better off in that situation?

I can see Anna's point in that you have to be fully informed about the ceiling fare for the leg to know what you are buying, and you won't get this in the online booking phase. So only of you already know the max flex fare price can you mentally deduct what you paid to work out the difference you might face for re-booking. Many on here will know that figure or a rough approximation, but probably many others who buy what they think is a fully flexible fare will only find out down the track of the limitations, and the fare difference required. In my view there is an element of failure to inform in these transactions.

 

[chocolate radiation man]

I don't know if this is achievable as I am but a silly miner, however, I think having a "slider" similar to the points plus pay option with an indicator of the fare bucket would be an awesome feature for Qantas or Virgin to employ on their respective websites. This would allow one to purchase exactly what you were expecting as well as while the cheaper fare buckets were available, apply your own risk to your particular situation in the fare being purchased.

 

[medhead]

I don't see how its misleading when the fare conditions are clearly stated that any fare difference will be charged for changes.

Say they'd charged him the $110 up front (i.e. sold him the most expensive flex ticket from the outset), and then he hadn't needed to change. How would the OP have been better off in that situation?

I can see Anna's point in that you have to be fully informed about the ceiling fare for the leg to know what you are buying, and you won't get this in the online booking phase. So only of you already know the max flex fare price can you mentally deduct what you paid to work out the difference you might face for re-booking. Many on here will know that figure or a rough approximation, but probably many others who buy what they think is a fully flexible fare will only find out down the track of the limitations, and the fare difference required. In my view there is an element of failure to inform in these transactions.

I'd actually go one step further and say that you don't actually know what fare you're buying at all. The underlying fare class is not known. In some cases "Flex" might be the max fare with no fare difference due, and in other case "flex" isn't with a variable fare difference due.

 

[Quickstatus]

And ultimately you don't know what the full price fare is. You won't know what the max price difference is when you buy the ticket. Allowing QF to increase the max price without much pushback because the only people who will buy that fare are those who are changing the flight, last minute desperadoes and downgrades. In these cases the fare will be unpublished.

 

[Mattg]

I do understand the argument about the different fare classes, and the originally purchased fare bucket being sold out on the flight that the OP wished to change to. But honestly, I would have had similar expectations if I was a Platinum FF who had paid $750 for a trip between Sydney and Canberra. That's a lot of revenue for QF for a short flight. I don't think the request was entirely unreasonable.

 

[kevrosmith]

Maybe you just got a bad lounge attendant?

For me, this is a huge factor in this discussion... on another day, in another situation, with another staff member, you very well may have gotten a different outcome.

 

[Quickstatus]

Totally agree that it was a reasonable request. Don't ask Don't get. But to expect it that it will be given is pushing the asymmetric "friendship" a bit?. Isn't it discretionary? Hard to be discretionary when your passengers expect a freebie everytime?

 

[moa999]

Maybe QF could be clearer when booking a Flex by stating - fare difference of up to $x may be payable (where x equals Y bucket less fare paid) but I suspect many would ignore it.

I do tend to agree that if there were indeed 30 seats free I am surprised that lower fare classes weren't available / an agent wasn't able to move, but that is the magic of the revenue management black box

 

[Austman]

For me, this is a huge factor in this discussion... on another day, in another situation, with another staff member, you very well may have gotten a different outcome.

Do the the lounge staff actually have discretion about allowing a move to an earlier flight? I thought they didn't. At least that's what they have told me.

 

[serfty]

Serfty,

Have you tried an UpgradeMepoints for a transpacific VA flight? Say PE to Z? How long after request did the upgrade occur?

I cannot answer this as I no longer leave such things to chance.

This is since paying additional to have an upgradable booking class for myself and SWMO between LHR and SIN on Qantas - needless to say the upgrade did not come through.

I either book in the lowest (unupgradable) fare and plan on travelling in that cabin or book in a premium cabin. I do not enter waitlists.

 

[Quickstatus]

Do the the lounge staff actually have discretion about allowing a move to an earlier flight? I thought they didn't. At least that's what they have told me.

Have asked and been provided on a number of occasions. Not 100% though

 

[Austman]

Have asked and been provided on a number of occasions. Not 100% though

They can certainly do it when computer says "yes". And they have always checked to see if they can move me when I have asked. But I've been knocked back several times with a "sorry, but we can't move you due to your fare class" with further information that they are always restricted on moving passengers unless the system allows it.

 

[medhead]

Do the the lounge staff actually have discretion about allowing a move to an earlier flight? I thought they didn't. At least that's what they have told me.

They can certainly do it when computer says "yes". And they have always checked to see if they can move me when I have asked. But I've been knocked back several times with a "sorry, but we can't move you due to your fare class" with further information that they are always restricted on moving passengers unless the system allows it.

I understand they have zero discretion with red-e-deals unless there is a storm/some other reason that flow forwarding is in place. (or whatever it's called)
Such a restriction should not really apply to Flex fares, except I imagine that they have very little discretion to not collect fare difference. Note the OP mention the lounge agent saying something about storms. In my experience with red-e-deals that type of comment means they can move you. I assume there are strong restrictions on discretion even for flex fares based on that comment.

 

[downgraded]

Hmmm. QF charged minimum price at the time for Flex conditions then when you want to exercise the conditions to move to an alternative flight they ask for the difference between what you paid and the current fare bucket (which could have been $0, but it wasn't ). You paid for the flexibility to change, not the guarantee of any seat on any flight.

 

[UP4014]

Do the the lounge staff actually have discretion about allowing a move to an earlier flight? I thought they didn't. At least that's what they have told me.

I have been offered a move forward even when on a red-e-deal. So either they do or depending on loads 'yield management' people can give them the authority.

Matt

 

[JohnK]

You paid for the flexibility to change, not the guarantee of any seat on any flight.

So why pay for flexible airfares? The extra SCs?

Pay $350+ for flexible airfare which really isn't all that flexible or book a red e-deal for 4:00pm and a red e-deal for 7:00pm and pay ~$125 for each and throw one away.

 

[Austman]

I have been offered a move forward even when on a red-e-deal. So either they do or depending on loads 'yield management' people can give them the authority. Matt

Yep. Me too, many times. But it's always been allowed by the system.

It's even sometimes offered at the kiosks (so I've read on AFF).

The question is do lounge staff have discretion themselves to do it? And they have told me, several separate times, in different QPs, that they don't. So I don't see the point is claiming that it might depend on which staff member you ask. They have all been very nice but have had to refuse me when the system didn't allow the change.

 

[opusman]

Pay $350+ for flexible airfare which really isn't all that flexible or book a red e-deal for 4:00pm and a red e-deal for 7:00pm and pay ~$125 for each and throw one away.

Definitely a valid tactic.

 

[kevrosmith]

Yep. Me too, many times. But it's always been allowed by the system.

It's even sometimes offered at the kiosks (so I've read on AFF).

The question is do lounge staff have discretion themselves to do it? And they have told me, several separate times, in different QPs, that they don't. So I don't see the point is claiming that it might depend on which staff member you ask. They have all been very nice but have had to refuse me when the system didn't allow the change.

My explanation for that is different staff have different access levels in the system (which is a fairly normal feature of security access in computer information systems). So when I think "depends who you get", it also depends on what level of access they have and also what level of authority they have.