Grammar Discussions

[straitman]

Re: Scams like these

Hate to be a pedant but unless you in the USA I think you will be gaol if you are here in Oz.

I don't want to be in either Jail or Gaol.

 

[coco50]

Re: Scams like these

I don't want to be in either Jail or Gaol.

That's an admirable goal!

 

[medhead]

Re: Scams like these

I've found that ESL people have good to great written english and average to poor spoken english. The only noteable exception was someone in a senior position whose written english was basically unreadable, open to multiple meanings because of the grammatical errors. Something that is unacceptable in a scientific role.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Scams like these

I think the thing about spelling and grammar that can get at people's goats is whether or not someone takes ownership for their missteps. Doesn't matter if you were an A+ or E- English student; if you can't care that you have made a mistake, notwithstanding the context which may or may not make that significant, that's probably a bigger failing than having made the error in the first place.

A bit like those people who send error-riddled messages and then blame autocorrect... and thinking that is a legitimate excuse.

 

[medhead]

Re: Scams like these

I think the thing about spelling and grammar that can get at people's goats is whether or not someone takes ownership for their missteps. Doesn't matter if you were an A+ or E- English student; if you can't care that you have made a mistake, notwithstanding the context which may or may not make that significant, that's probably a bigger failing than having made the error in the first place.

A bit like those people who send error-riddled messages and then blame autocorrect... and thinking that is a legitimate excuse.

And yet my sister in law has sent me an email to that include "Ivan use it". In context clearly that should be "I can use it".I'm sure she typed exactly those words and autocorrect has uncorrected Ican to Ivan instead of I can. That is a total failure even if she missed typing the space, in what universe is Ican more likely to be Ivan than I can?

You keep having these digs about people who blame autocorrect. But I have numerous examples of autocorrect completely stuffing up. I have typed exactly the correct letters for a word and the phone autocorrect has changed it to something different with the different letters on completely opposite sides of the keyboard. When I type something in correctly and it's incorrected to a different word for no good reason that is an autocorrect failure. Sure I didn't proof read, give me 1% of the blame. 99% of the blame is autocorrect - I wouldn't need to proof read if it only followed my instructions.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Scams like these

And yet my sister in law has sent me an email to that include "Ivan use it". In context clearly that should be "I can use it".I'm sure she typed exactly those words and autocorrect has uncorrected Ican to Ivan instead of I can. That is a total failure even if she missed typing the space, in what universe is Ican more likely to be Ivan than I can?

You keep having these digs about people who blame autocorrect. But I have numerous examples of autocorrect completely stuffing up. I have typed exactly the correct letters for a word and the phone autocorrect has changed it to something different with the different letters on completely opposite sides of the keyboard. When I type something in correctly and it's incorrected to a different word for no good reason that is an autocorrect failure. Sure I didn't proof read, give me 1% of the blame. 99% of the blame is autocorrect - I wouldn't need to proof read if it only followed my instructions.

But in the end it is your text and your communication. So you take prime and, in most cases, full responsibility for it.

If you find that autocorrect is doing its job incorrectly, turn it off. In fact, I keep harping on about Apple's autocorrect, and whether it has a feature similar to most Android systems, where you can turn off the autocorrect auto-replacement. For example, if you typed Ican on an Android device in many cases, there will be a suggestion (usually up to three suggestions will be fielded) above the keyboard and one of those is likely I can (and one might be Ivan). If autocorrect replacement is on, then after the next space or punctuation mark, the questionable word will be replaced with the most "common" according to the system. If replacement is turned off, however, the automatic replacement doesn't take place, and you can pick a correction from the fielded suggestions simply by tapping it.

I can't field an assignment or report, be told it has spelling errors (or word use errors), and then use an excuse, "But I ran Spell Check on it - so it's Spell Check's fault for not doing a good job." I'd be ostracised for making such a lame excuse.

To be fair, it is somewhat relative to the purpose at hand. As a side example, say you're catching the bus to somewhere for an appointment. Even if you allowed yourself "plenty" of time, the bus breaks down and you end up late for your appointment. If it was a job interview, the recruiter would likely tell you that you're off the list and show you the door; they don't care that the bus was late, you should have allowed for that, so your fault. You probably can't complain or sue the bus company for costing you that opportunity. If it was an appointment to catch up with a colleague or the like, the latter are more likely to be tolerant, and in fact may even be prepared to reaccommodate you.

There's probably a good reason why there's no autocorrect in things like war communications or the like. Can you imagine blaming autocorrect if someone decides to bomb the wrong one of Sweden, Spain, Switzerland or Syria?

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Re: Scams like these

Sorry. Wrong. Maybe you are a fossil though.
View attachment 67797

Oxford for me "Old Chap"... MacQuarie is for those colonials who can't bother to learn the correct " Queens' English"..nor get the order of the O and A right

What about correct use of apostrophes do we start a thread on that one as well ?? might start a bit of discussion ??

I see nothing wrong with uniform and correct spelling and fail to see why everything in life now seems to be focussed on catering for becoming the lowest common denominator

We as FF's make the effort to LEARN and read and read and make dry runs on paper repeatedly learning how to tweak those extra few points and SC's from our dollars to be laughed at by "the uneducated masses" until they board the plane to find their seats down the back in cattle class and see us "up the front" and wonder how we afford it.

If only they knew how easy it was once one mastered the secrets !!

I see spelling as the same ........a lot of effort but once it falls into place I reckon it's worth the effort to do it correctly

But that's just how us "fossils" think I guess !!

 

[get me outta here]

Re: Scams like these

I'm not sure how a Grammar thread changes it's title, but if this is also the grammar thread, this thread title has one too many words to my mind:

[h=2]How many different airlines have you flown with?[/h]

 

[medhead]

Re: Scams like these

How is autocorrect turned off on an iPhone? As you say the word is automatically replaced when you hit space. If i type in the exact correct letters and the word changes after I hit space that is not a failure of my spelling.

I would also refer to the linked story that gave a negative character assessment to those who correct spelling and grammar. I wonder if that extends to people who can't accept that autocorrect does get it wrong? Especially if you can understand what is written.

I also might have to question the use of the word "Blame". Is someone who is incorrected, and mentions that autocorrect did it, really blaming autocorrect? Or are they just stating a fact? Maybe a first world problem, but the reality is that many mistakes are due to autocorrect. I don't see the need to attack people who suffer this problem.

But in the end it is your text and your communication. So you take prime and, in most cases, full responsibility for it.

If you find that autocorrect is doing its job incorrectly, turn it off. In fact, I keep harping on about Apple's autocorrect, and whether it has a feature similar to most Android systems, where you can turn off the autocorrect auto-replacement. For example, if you typed Ican on an Android device in many cases, there will be a suggestion (usually up to three suggestions will be fielded) above the keyboard and one of those is likely I can (and one might be Ivan). If autocorrect replacement is on, then after the next space or punctuation mark, the questionable word will be replaced with the most "common" according to the system. If replacement is turned off, however, the automatic replacement doesn't take place, and you can pick a correction from the fielded suggestions simply by tapping it.

I can't field an assignment or report, be told it has spelling errors (or word use errors), and then use an excuse, "But I ran Spell Check on it - so it's Spell Check's fault for not doing a good job." I'd be ostracised for making such a lame excuse.

To be fair, it is somewhat relative to the purpose at hand. As a side example, say you're catching the bus to somewhere for an appointment. Even if you allowed yourself "plenty" of time, the bus breaks down and you end up late for your appointment. If it was a job interview, the recruiter would likely tell you that you're off the list and show you the door; they don't care that the bus was late, you should have allowed for that, so your fault. You probably can't complain or sue the bus company for costing you that opportunity. If it was an appointment to catch up with a colleague or the like, the latter are more likely to be tolerant, and in fact may even be prepared to reaccommodate you.

There's probably a good reason why there's no autocorrect in things like war communications or the like. Can you imagine blaming autocorrect if someone decides to bomb the wrong one of Sweden, Spain, Switzerland or Syria?

 

[JessicaTam]

Some posts were moved from another thread. When that happens the title is carried with them. Then when a post is quoted, that title is repeated, thus propagating the situation.

'Reply to' a post with the correct title and the matter should be corrected (as I have done). Of course if you 'Reply with quote' the title is quoted too.

 

[prozac]

Re: Grammar Discussions change the title

...
'Reply to' a post with the correct title and the matter should be corrected (as I have done). Of course if you 'Reply with quote' the title is quoted too.

If you select the Advanced option at lower right of the reply box, you will be able to edit the Title as well.

 

[anat0l]

How is autocorrect turned off on an iPhone? As you say the word is automatically replaced when you hit space. If i type in the exact correct letters and the word changes after I hit space that is not a failure of my spelling.

I would also refer to the linked story that gave a negative character assessment to those who correct spelling and grammar. I wonder if that extends to people who can't accept that autocorrect does get it wrong? Especially if you can understand what is written.

I also might have to question the use of the word "Blame". Is someone who is incorrected, and mentions that autocorrect did it, really blaming autocorrect? Or are they just stating a fact? Maybe a first world problem, but the reality is that many mistakes are due to autocorrect. I don't see the need to attack people who suffer this problem.

Here's one article on how to turn off autocorrect in iOS: How to Disable Auto-Correct on iPhone Completely | OSXDaily

It seems there's a nice happy medium there (now that I think about it, that's what I did when I had an iPod touch many years ago), where you can turn off autocorrect but still leave spell checking on (i.e. the red lines). It won't catch the typos that still produce correctly spelled words, but autocorrect may not provide that correction either.

I'd say Android has the advantage here.

I'd agree it may not be a failure of your spelling. Although one can argue that if autocorrect (or spell check) suggested the correct word where you typed it in incorrectly, that is a failure of your spelling, but whoever reads it in the end wouldn't know it. In both cases, it's still your production because you are happy to say that you are sending this message or this text. On the face of the production alone without consulting you (or attempting to reproduce the production process), an error of that kind will most commonly be attributed to your error in spelling before thinking whether autocorrect has made in inaccurate adjustment, although the second may eventually come into consideration by the reader.

I guess we can split a difference between a typo and inability to spell. Just because a word appears typed incorrectly doesn't mean you can't spell; it could mean your typing accuracy is poor. How can an end-reader tell without consulting you? They probably can't, although you can guess in some cases (e.g. seeing yhe instead of the). In either case, most will judge "poor speller" before "poor typist", if even for a split second. In many days gone by (or even today), one could make a similar case between poor spelling and poor handwriting.

Now whether a reader wants to take that fact of an error in production further is up to them, i.e. further than it is just a mistake and let it be; the latter especially if it is quickly realised what should stand in place of the mistake, as compared to autocorrect situations which produce something which may be a reasonable message both with the intended word and the autocorrected one. If a reader wants to use the error as a judgement of character against you, then we have certain names for those kinds of people and we might say that's rather unreasonable, but that is what they will do. Certainly many here who have had the benefit of decades of experience before autocorrect firmly believe that those who can't spell signify a failure of the generation (and "evolving" literacy education), and they are not willing to accept that autocorrect can be a factor contributing to the number of errors simply because they have come from a view where whatever they produced in text was completely up to them and subject to no other system (except for possibly poor handwriting or poor writing instrument).

As for poor grammar, well, it's hard to blame that on poor typing or handwriting, or even autocorrect....

 

[love_the_life]

Just an observation for those who are pedantic about the use of punctuation; 'SCs' does not have an apostrophe as it is simply plural for Status Credit. Similarly 'its' does not either unless it is used to mean 'it is', where it is a contraction.
I am sure I am just as guilty for poor proofreading as anyone but it amuses me to see posts about the poor standard of written language with glaring errors.

 

[Foreigner]

And the correct form for attorney general in plural is attorneys general, not attorney generals. (Ignoring hyphen ftm)

 

[prozac]

And the correct form for attorney general in plural is attorneys general, not attorney generals. (Ignoring hyphen ftm)

 

[Foreigner]

Reading about Beirut expedition and listening to the different versions from the participants, the word 'truthiness' comes to mind.

This word, a noun, was the M-W dictionary's Word of the Year in 2006:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/press-release/2006-word-of-the-year

 

[coco50]

Reading about Beirut expedition and listening to the different versions from the participants, the word 'truthiness' comes to mind.

This word, a noun, was the M-W dictionary's Word of the Year in 2006:

2006 Word of the Year | Merriam-Webster

The older you get the more that you learn that truth is not absolute. There are various shades of the truth from filthy black to pure white. I preferred it when truth was absolute.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Reading about Beirut expedition and listening to the different versions from the participants, the word 'truthiness' comes to mind.

This word, a noun, was the M-W dictionary's Word of the Year in 2006:

2006 Word of the Year | Merriam-Webster

Meriam-Webster is an American dictionary.
Americans do not speak English.
In fact one of the founders of the dictionary, Webster, explicitly set out to create a new language for the new nation.

 

[anat0l]

In fact one of the founders of the dictionary, Webster, explicitly set out to create a new language for the new nation.

Reminded me of this:

https://youtu.be/c18V8q0WMPg?t=1m7s

 

[Foreigner]

Meriam-Webster is an American dictionary.
Americans do not speak English.
In fact one of the founders of the dictionary, Webster, explicitly set out to create a new language for the new nation.

So I'm multilingual now...I read and write English as well as American