Great day at Qantas!

[nlagalle]

For the right resons, that will make more money then spent in the short-long term, and for everyone else thinking virgin will run out of money, i couldnt stop

They hope that it will. Like anything in business you can only project what the return will be.

 

[UP4014]

Why? They have a strategy. They have a plan to achieve the strategic outcomes that have been set. All of this would have board approval. To achieve those outcomes there would be a budget etc. To achieve what they want to achieve is going to cost money.

Tiger had a plan, Compass had a plan, Impulse had a plan, Oz-Jet had a plan. (I didn't mention Ansett because that was an Air NZ plan) :mrgreen:

Plans don't always work the way you want them.

Matt

 

[Jack Melon]

They hope that it will. Like anything in business you can only project what the return will be.

Lets just take an AFF members opinion on a bsi business class last night, it answers your questions:
[h=2]Re: Any AFFer in SYD lounge right now?[/h]

Bloody great flight! Seats are fantastic - do not feel cheap at all. Quite large and good recline. I kept asking swanning if I was bothering him with the recline - he said he couldn't even notice. The "space" felt very private and true biz class. Good legroom, wide seats and a nice little table between the seats. Plus the interior design was very sleek with great mood lighting. All in all a fantastic hard product.

Service was also top notch - crew were extremely nice and asked a few times if we needed anything more. And to top it off the pilot came out and chatted with us for about 10 mins. Really was keen to know what we thought of the direction of VA. Was genuinely engaging.

Only thing lacking was the IFE. But sure something good is coming soon...





It only speaks for itself, and the whole product isnt even rolled out yet.​

 

[TonyHancock]

Why? They have a strategy. They have a plan to achieve the strategic outcomes that have been set. All of this would have board approval. To achieve those outcomes there would be a budget etc. To achieve what they want to achieve is going to cost money.

• August 11, 2002 – US Airways enters protection
• December 9, 2002 – United Airlines under protection
• March 31, 2003 – US Airways emerges
• April 1, 2003 – Air Canada files
• September 12, 2004 – US Airways re-files for protection
• September 30, 2004 – Air Canada emerges
• December 30, 2004 – Aloha Airlines files
• September 14, 2005 – Northwest Airlines files
• September 14, 2005 – Delta Air Lines files, putting 4 of the top 7 carriers in the United States under bankruptcy protection
• September 27, 2005 – US Airways emerges, in conjunction with its acquisition by America West
• February 1, 2006 – United Airlines emerges
• February 17, 2006 – Aloha Airlines emerges
• April 30, 2007-Delta Airlines emerges
• May 31, 2007 – Northwest Airlines emerges
• Dec 26, 2007 – Maxjet Airways files
• March 31, 2008 – Aloha Airlines files and discontinues passenger transporting operations
• April 03, 2008 – ATA Airlines files and discontinues operations
• April 05, 2008 – Skybus Airlines files and discontinues operations
• April 10, 2008 – Frontier Airlines files
• April 26, 2008 – Eos Airlines files and discontinues operations

They all had strategies, presumably with board approval, all would have had budgets too. (Great things budgets, or at least they are when you are achieving the income aspect. Not so good when you aren't) there are thousands of example of businesses with board approved strategies and meticulously researched budgets who are no longer in operation.

The problem is that when something happens outside of your control there is not much you can do about it if you don't have the cash reserves. Don't mistake cash for profit either.

I hope DJ/VA succeeds, there is a need for competition, plus it will be nice to have emptier QF lounges!! I'm not saying they won't succeed I'm just saying they have a lot of outflows. I'm risk averse, I certainly wouldn't invest in QF, and that makes me even less likely to invest in VA/DJ.

 

[medhead]

True, we know very little of the full story I’d expect, and I’m in favour of the pilots, even signed the petition. I’d hate for jb747 to be reading this thread and thinking we’re not on his side at all, but it does seem that if you don’t want to disrupt pax, you wouldn’t strike like what has been said. Perhaps he was a rogue pilot?

Well I think we are missing the point. If there was a problem he wasn't going to agree to extend his hours. Work to rule is not a strike. Now consider the likelihood of a problem with the aircraft. Qantas are on the same average as the industry so what is the average hours before a flight has to divert industry wide? Then how long is the flight? 8 hours? What are the maximum hours 16, 20?

So even if it diverted there are then 4 to 8 hours to fix it and get him on the way. Or are qantas trying to tell us it was certain that QF30 would divert and hence the pilot would be on strike and disrupt passengers?

We have also been told that the crew are given a choice to extend duty hours in the jetstar thread. With the suggestion that the choice is entirely at the crew's discretion. But this incident suggests otherwise, it suggests coercion Qantas has now told all of their pilots that if you do not extend your duty hours in unforeseen circumstances then we are going to dump you on the other side of the world. What happens to the next pilot who doesn't extend their hours, industrial action based or otherwise. Dumped and not paid? Qantas can not be certain about the reasons of the pilot.

 

[nlagalle]

Lets just take an AFF members opinion on a bsi business class last night, it answers your questions:
[h=2]Re: Any AFFer in SYD lounge right now?[/h]

Bloody great flight! Seats are fantastic - do not feel cheap at all. Quite large and good recline. I kept asking swanning if I was bothering him with the recline - he said he couldn't even notice. The "space" felt very private and true biz class. Good legroom, wide seats and a nice little table between the seats. Plus the interior design was very sleek with great mood lighting. All in all a fantastic hard product.

Service was also top notch - crew were extremely nice and asked a few times if we needed anything more. And to top it off the pilot came out and chatted with us for about 10 mins. Really was keen to know what we thought of the direction of VA. Was genuinely engaging.

Only thing lacking was the IFE. But sure something good is coming soon...

It only speaks for itself, and the whole product isnt even rolled out yet.
​

That's great, but it is one opinion. People will vary. You don't know how Joe public will take it.

I also know for a fact the VA checkin at MEL is a zoo in the morning. I know this as I drive past to the QF terminal which is far more orderly. I'd hate to be in that zoo.

I know you love Virgin, but it isn't for everyone! Personally I still prefer QF to Virgin overall, and I will still take a QF 767 over a new Virgin 737.

 

[oz_mark]

They all had strategies, presumably with board approval, all would have had budgets too. (Great things budgets, or at least they are when you are achieving the income aspect. Not so good when you aren't) there are thousands of example of businesses with board approved strategies and meticulously researched budgets who are no longer in operation.

By the same token there are thousands of businesses with board approved strategies that have done very well. Are you suggesting that succesful companies happen by accident with no plan.

Everything in business is a risk, and usually a calculated risk. Sometimes they don't come off, but if companies aren't taking risks then nothing happens.


Sure Virgin Australia are taking a risk, and it may not come off, but they have a plan that they are trying to achieve.

 

[TonyHancock]

By the same token there are thousands of businesses with board approved strategies that have done very well. Are you suggesting that succesful companies happen by accident with no plan.

I'm saying that having a strategy approved by the board and a budget is not a guarantee of cashflow and profitability. Check out the number of investment grade airlines out there at the moment.

Everything in business is a risk, and usually a calculated risk. Sometimes they don't come off, but if companies aren't taking risks then nothing happens.

Absolutely, but at the moment the airline business seems to be a risky business to be in. Fuel prices rising, global financial uncertainty, high capital investment. I wouldn't invest in QF or DJ/VA.

Sure Virgin Australia are taking a risk, and it may not come off, but they have a plan that they are trying to achieve.

I genuinely hope they succeed. My concern is cash. It is the only concern I have expressed so I'm really not sure where your comments are coming from?

I'm not one to get into these back and forth debates and am quite happy to say you are right if you like? I'm a half wit at the best of times.

 

[oz_mark]

I genuinely hope they succeed. My concern is cash. It is the only concern I have expressed so I'm really not sure where your comments are coming from?

My point is that they are spending cash to achieve an objective.

Come August 24, I expect that Qantas will be announcing product improvements on international, that will also require spending money, as part of the rebirth of QFi.

 

[mannej]

Wow, there seems to be a lot of comments on here that are probably not very reflective of the current climate out there.

Jack, before you mention Geoff Dixon again, what legacy has he left QF? I would suggest one of an ageing fleet with an over reliance on both Airbus and Boeing to get their acts together. Did he purchase the A330's because of the discounts? Should he not have predicted the delays, and refresh the 767 fleet, as what they did to the 743's before they got retired? To be honest with you, AJ is probably not the most liked person around, but he was probably brought in with a job to do. Would JB have got the job done? That is an unknown.

In my mind, I do see change in the DJ camp, however it is very targeted. All the razzle dazzle seemed focussed on the "business class" and enticing business it's way to the point where I have had questions on here not answered, as they were about the back of the bus. The Boeing BSI may be great, but it still is all a toy it seems. BSI or not, they are still 737's. I will admit that DJ have the 330 beds on at the right time, and this is where QF could pick up, with the right fleet usage, could there be a business for skybeds on the PER-MEL/SYD/BNE red eyes?

As for the pilot in question, there was a situation on a US Airways A330 she felt that was unsafe to operate. Union comes out saying she was pressured then frog marched out of the airport when she still refused. Sounds like a feral way to treat staff. What was not mentioned was her conduct over the P.A to the passengers which got her escorted out. There are details that are always left out, so we arm chair experts do not have the full facts to make an accurate judgement.

The media seem to pick and choose in what events to publish. Very little on the Asiana cargo plane that perished last night, which could basically be a repeat of the UPS crash (read Lithium batteries), yet you get more on an oven that was smokey out of SYD yesterday. Yes one was closer to home, but the other could show issues with the Lithium batteries and how dangerous they can be. Tech planes happen all the time, so to say QF always have problems is a bit rich. I do believe one of the DJ A330's went tech in PER the other week, so get over it. At least QF seem to fix the problem if they know about it, unlike a certain suspended airline who had a wing fault for 8 months.

It is testing times for the Roo, as it is per any other airline. I guess what strategies AJ has will come out on later on in August. DJ have their strategies, but at the moment I still do not think that they have changed the game. That takes time and a bit more than a few A330's and some flashy 737's. Interesting times, but to say that Virgin are the only ones doing the right things at the moment is extremely off the mark in my view.

 

[QF WP]

Eeek, I just logged onto the VA website for the first time...EVER :shock:

I think I need a beer to get over it...

Of course, there are good stories about QF today as well, such as:

Qantas will not stand in the way of its main rival, Virgin Australia, pursing a close tie-up with Singapore Airlines, arguing the two Australian carriers need alliances because they are at a huge disadvantage to their government-owned competitors.... http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-backs-virginsingapore-link-20110728-1i1yt.html

 

[drron]

This was interesting in the SMH article re the pilot-

The union is demanding that all Qantas jets be flown by a Qantas pilot or a pilot on conditions equal to the Qantas pilot agreement.
It has called for pilots flying on Qantas affiliates such as Jetstar and New Zealand-based subsidiary Jetconnect, to have the same wages and conditions as Qantas pilots.
The Qantas spokesman said: "The pilots' union is trying to force all Qantas subsidiaries, including Jetstar, to pay the same premium pay and conditions as Qantas".
"The union is also demanding pay increases and free flights on top of already heavily discounted airfares.
"If Qantas was to give the unions what they want it would drive up airfares, cost jobs and make Qantas airlines and routes unprofitable."


Read more: Qantas pilot stood down for overtime ban​

I trust the Union doesn't really believe they can get JQ pilots the same conditions as at QF-never going to happen.

 

[oz_mark]

It is testing times for the Roo, as it is per any other airline. I guess what strategies AJ has will come out on later on in August. DJ have their strategies, but at the moment I still do not think that they have changed the game. That takes time and a bit more than a few A330's and some flashy 737's. Interesting times, but to say that Virgin are the only ones doing the right things at the moment is extremely off the mark in my view.

Agreed. Different airlines, different strengths,weaknesses (not to mention oppurtunities and threats, just to finish it off!), with different strategies going forward.

 

[pauly7]

I know you are a Virgin fan but really, they are not without fault either. I know you bang on about how good they are appearing but they aren't the best. A lot of there problems never make it to the media.

I'm beginning to suspect that a couple of members on here may be Virgin plants/moles!

Posts are getting very 'spammy', repetitive and just plain one sided.

 

[Noob]

I honestly don't think Qantas is in a bad position, things like this happen all the time just part of the fun in the business world - Anyone that has run a business knows staff are one of the hardest things in the world to deal with! Qantas just need to embrace their assets (eg. being Australia's airline!) instead of down talking their own brand. Qantas is a great brand, one that most would kill to have control over, lets just hope it all turns out okay in the end.

On another note, the money that is being spent at the moment at VA has been allocated in previous budgets, they are just going for a different look with the money. The 737BSI were already ordered, they are just getting them with different seats and new colours - the lounges were due for there upgrade, they just hired a different designer etc. The only extra money which is being spent is the allocated $35 million for rebranding.

 

[medhead]

What was not mentioned was her conduct over the P.A to the passengers which got her escorted out.

Of course the Qantas pilot didn't even get onto the aircarft so couldn't have said anything on the PA.

 

[mannej]

Of course the Qantas pilot didn't even get onto the aircarft so couldn't have said anything on the PA.

After reading into it further, it was the P.A system at the gate after people got off the plane

 

[pshepvic]

I'm beginning to suspect that a couple of members on here may be Virgin plants/moles!

Posts are getting very 'spammy', repetitive and just plain one sided.

Hmmm ... If we compare the style and tone of the authenticated company reps, to these comments, I don't think they are plants/moles.

VA is very careful about how they communicate on this forum, as they should be, and they always keep their comments factual and to the point. As does Red Roo. I know some might still be humorous or cheeky at times, but they are certainly not propaganda and they do not get into silly debates, and definitely don't make sweeping statements or false claims. They also don't make "predictions" about the future - particularly things like Star Alliance, which has been a hot topic, but VA has clearly announced on more than one occasion that they will not be joining an alliance.

I think if a certain member was a plant/mole and made these types of statements, they would have been brought into line already by VA management. I certainly wouldn't want one of my staff representing my organization in that way.

They may well be a (very junior) employee and not know the appropriate boundaries for commenting on social media, but I certainly don't think they have been planted here by VA.

(And by the way, I don't work for VA either!)

 

[ajw373]

Have you seen how much money Virgin is losing at the moment? QF is still in the black at the end of the day. Geoff Dixon Didn't do much for QF except to try and sell it off. You can't also say it would be different if JB was at the top. Aircraft decisions etc happened when he was at QF remember. I'm not defending Alan Joyce, but not all of the current issues (old aircraft the notable one) are his doing.

Borghetti was also heavily involved in the creation of Jetstar, so agree doubt it would be any different if he were in charge. Bottom line is Joyce is in charge at a time when changes NEED to be made, so he is being made out like the boogeyman when the reality is he is doing the job the board are paying him to do.

 

[ajw373]

This was interesting in the SMH article re the pilot-


I trust the Union doesn't really believe they can get JQ pilots the same conditions as at QF-never going to happen.

The bit I like is how they seem to be happy for the foreign pilots to be paid the same etc, yet on the other hand carry on about how dangerous foreign pilots are. Certainly shows that the whole issue is over self survival rather than safety has they make out to the public.