Have you had to change/cancel travel due to COVID-19 (involuntarily or voluntarily)?

[robtemt]

I thought I would start a thread as a resource for AFFers who have changed or cancelled travel plans directly or indirectly due to 2019 n-CoV.

• Did the airline/cruise company cancelling or change your flight/cruise? Or, did you proactively or reactively cancel or change it on your own (and why?).
• Did they notify you directly, or did you discover it on your own?
• What was your original plan, and what was the revised plan?
• What was your experience like?
• Did you go through any travel insurance claim process, and how was that part of it?

For the record, part of my role at work is to monitor medical related issues, filter out mis/disinformation, and brief other staff using only verified facts from trusted sources, so I am not one to buy into sensationalism or hysteria. BUT, I am also an advocate of forward planning and monitoring situations that could affect travel plans.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2020

To start it off…. We have begun voluntarily changing (or making back up plans for) our upcoming holiday SYD-(+/- SIN)-LAX-SJO-LAX-HNL-LNY-HNL-SYD

We are booked to the USA via SIN on SQ in a few weeks (F Saver Reward Booking). A few things caused us to start making contingency plans on getting to the USA including:

• Reading posts from Buttermilk Chicken regarding her RTW flight being disrupted between HKK and CEB
• Member Pushka raising a good point if Singapore will be next.
• Monitoring the World Health Organisations surveillance on n-CoV (as part of my responsibilities at work). Singapore confirmed infections were 28 on 5 Feb, 40 on 8 Feb, and 43 on 9 Feb. Several of these cases were human-to-human contact, with no recent travel to China.
• Bloomberg’s article this morning HERE, which discussed the spread of the virus from a conference attendee in Singapore, via a resort in France, to people in France, Spain, and the UK.

We contacted SQ, to discuss the options of alternative carriers, to which there were no available flights. The agent was very friendly, and said she understood the desire to rebook and avoid an Asia transit, but she said until official bans are in place, there were no options, but “we will offer options if Singapore becomes affected by travel bans”.

We began searching other options. We contacted VFF, who found one seat on DL SYD-LAX in W, and one seat on VA in J SYD-BNE-LAX. No other business or premium reward seats (except any seat) were available +/- 1 day of our desired travel (with pre-booked hotels, cars, and other flights to South America, and Hawaii). We will keep looking for another J seat on same day, and hopefully two on the same flight to free up closer to the date.

We have left our SQ bookings as is for now, and will cancel either that booking of the DL/VA booking closer to the date as thing develop.

Overall Experience:

• Wait times on the phone are obviously a bit longer, but I’ve not been on hold longer than 15 minutes with either VA or SQ.
• Staff at both SQ and VA call centres have been friendly, empathetic, and helpful in searching, but have no/limited availability and flexibility in voluntary changes so far.

 

[JennyMG]

I was proactive.
I'm wondering if I should be Proactive again.
We have a European holiday coming up, 8 weeks, in June: France, Italy (none of those areas, Venice is the closest), Switz, Germany and Thailand on the way home.

THE PROBLEM: Our return flight in July was China Eastern!!!! Way back in early Feb I talked about it with AFFers, and after a bit of chat, I decided proactivity would be best, not just because it was a 5 hour layover in Shanghai (there were no Travel restrictions with China at the time), but because this is my first and only ever Bus class flight and an important holiday for us. The flight home was an award flight, Now I was uncomfortable. I didn't want to be sitting in J with a mask, or worrying, or listening to someone cough, or sitting in Shang Airpt. for 5 hours with zillions of people breathing on me. It wasn't so much I was worried about catching it, though of course I'd rather not, it's the THOUGHT of it. Listening to coughs, being trapped and not relaxing on my flights.

I found Qatar flights home from our departure point, Rome, via doha and ending in BKK. Close enough.
There were J award seats available. Hallelujah!

MY EXPERIENCE WITH Qantas: So I got on the hooter around 10 Feb, I got an operator from Auckland who was A-MAZING!! So patient, systematic, and sensible.
He cancelled my MUH flights, refunded my points, and then found the flights I wanted, rebooked them for me, (and it cost less points!) . He then booked the onward flight BKK - SYD for me.
Very very happy with that.

SING AIR - SQ flights are being cancelled up until 29 May (I leave 2 June.) With luck MY day won't be cancelled.
They seem to be cancelling Wed and Thurs, not Tues.
a WEEK or so ago, I got an email from Sing Air telling me how they always disinfect and clean the aircraft and what procedures they will go to in order to protect us. I thought that was excellent.

Yes, I notice I'm going through Changi a 5 hour layover. I'll be in the lounge. I'm not worried. Have you watched the Singapore news?? they've go it together that lot. They're so in control (not of the virus, but of their society), it's amazing. I'm fine about going through there, as long as I'm ALLOWED to.
So 2nd June going SQ - SYD>SIN>CDG
going FCO >DOH>bkk with Qatar and BKK>SYD Qantas 3 days later.

that's the pair of flights I'm a BIT worried about, leaving from Rome. Going through BKK. Will either be banned? A crystal ball would be good right now. (and some dunny paper)

WHAT WILL I DO? So far, I'm still going.
I booked the insurance ages ago, but I'm not covered for 'virus' things if I go to a banned place now obviously. I'm also not covered for change of mind. So It's either GO, or LOSE. If things get worse, I'll have to change bookings, - I can claim if the bookings are in Govt. banned areas, but not if they're not - as that would constitute a change of mind. If I just decide against going, and cancel...Venice, say,...then I'm not covered.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Looks like a very quiet Venice and Rome on the cards.

 

[Cossie]

We will have to make changes to our Europe trip in May due to her indoors needing surgery, we could have waited until Aug, but best get it out of the way.
I'm still going to Germany and Portugal, but I'll wait as long as possible before cancelling her ticket just in case the airline does it first.
Hopefully our Africa trip in July isn't affected as she should be ok to travel by then.

 

[pmdg7444]

Cathay least flexible with refund waivers. has to be to/from mainland china.

 

[JennyMG]

Likewise I have huge amount of prepaid travel for early June through mid July. Whilst airfares were classic rewards (so refundable less 6k penalty), my pre-paid tour and hotels costs (about $10k to date and $4k balance owing) are non-refundable untess the tour company cancels the tour or Australian Govt add Denamrk, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithunaia onto the Do Not Travel list.

Noting according to FAQ on tour company site, they do not care that I have to transit Hong Kong, Dubai to get there and come home via Doha and Singapore - as my flighst weren't booked through them.

Me too. Tons of prepaid, non cancellable travel. Though this is confusing, as I also have Travel Insurance with Insure& Go from July last year, so can claim IF it' Do Not Travel. Not if Change of Mind. June and July, same.
I'm waiting to see the lay of the land. I mean, what else can bloody happen, right? Countries a little diff, prob. worse, France, Germany, Italy! Austria, Switz. and Thailand on the way home.

Flight over SQ to Paris via Changi a bit of a worry, I'm confident in the Singaporeans, they've got their stuff together, but Govt...I'mnotso confident in who decides what.

And the way home...that's a bit of a worry too...Fumicino Rome, Qatar airlines, through Doha to Bangkok. That's the one I just booked. (changed it from ChinaEastern thank Goodness!!) but now...is it going to be a disaster going to Bangkok? Shaking my head. what to do. Damned if I know.

 

[Pushka]

Me too. Tons of prepaid, non cancellable travel. Though this is confusing, as I also have Travel Insurance with Insure& Go from July last year, so can claim IF it' Do Not Travel. Not if Change of Mind. June and July, same.
I'm waiting to see the lay of the land. I mean, what else can bloody happen, right? Countries a little diff, prob. worse, France, Germany, Italy! Austria, Switz. and Thailand on the way home.

Flight over SQ to Paris via Changi a bit of a worry, I'm confident in the Singaporeans, they've got their stuff together, but Govt...I'mnotso confident in who decides what.

And the way home...that's a bit of a worry too...Fumicino Rome, Qatar airlines, through Doha to Bangkok. That's the one I just booked. (changed it from ChinaEastern thank Goodness!!) but now...is it going to be a disaster going to Bangkok? Shaking my head. what to do. Damned if I know.

This is a curious twist in our Cruise scheduled to depart from Rome in July. Currently Celebrity have a warning that anyone travelling through Italy will not be allowed to board their ships! Additionally next month they have transatlantics from the US to Europe. Same warning. And in five weeks time their cruise ends in Rome! There is a world of pain in the travel industry right now.

 

[Pushka]

An Insurance Industry expert was just on Channel 10. I should say "expert". He just stated that travellers should get insurance for the corona virus now because once it is declared a pandemic it will be too late. Does this guy ever read any travel insurance websites?

 

[Lynda2475]

Obviously not, as I booked travel for Dec this yearduring the DSC after the declaration of Covid-19 as a known event, and as yet havent bothered with a paid travel insurance policy for that trip as couldnt find one that would cover it. Relying on the Amex insurance, and have booked fully refundable hotel (upt to 3 days out) to see what happens.

The policy I bought back in Sept for my June/July trip excludes pandemics so he cant be that "expert".

 

[get me outta here]

A new case in Aus caught by someone doing a stopover in SIN. Looks like an SQ flight is not a good idea. I’m not so worried about getting the virus as getting stuck somewhere.

 

[Tiki]

"So is this particular virus actually abnormal?" - that is an excellent and relevant question.

Other more expert people will perhaps throw stones at details in the following, but it is my attempt to both give one possible answer to your question, and also, to go over in my own head what I have seen / heard / felt and try to answer this question for myself....

Let's start with the basics - what exactly is "Coronavirus"? The first thing is that it is remarkable in having so many names - I think the generic term "corona virus" grew so much traction in the initial stages that it still is understood and used by most people - even though "it" is just one of many of the coronavirus family. The horse has bolted on that one.... Now we have the new and precise term of "COVID-19" - but that is also widely misused by the media, etc. This name refers to the effects of the virus, the disease itself. The beasty (had to chuck in a truly non-medical term here ) as in the actual virus itself is officially known as "SARS-Cov-2". For a while the actual virus was called "2019nCov", but this has been replaced by the official SARS-Cov-2. Obviously there will be much intermingling of these things. But to wrap that part up, there is a virus that is now officially named SARS-Cov-2, that when it infects humans, their illness is termed COVID-19, and the term coronavirus is now used by the common folk to describe either of these.

Viruses are teensy organisms that infect and multiply and get transmitted by many many hosts - not just people - essentially all living things have their own little collection of these buggers. Viruses themselves are like all species of everything - their primary goal is sheer survival. Nothing more or less. Viruses have developed a curious need for survival in that they cannot simply stay in a cosy place (their host) forever. As their needed environment (the host) will eventually die. So if they cannot send out their offspring to other hosts, their civilization is doomed to extinction. So even if they just lived in a peaceful coexistence with their environment, and caused no harm, they would still all perish if they did not manage to jump ship.

So to enable that jump to another host, over time, in good old Darwinian fashion, the viruses that managed to provoke their host to do something that enabled the leap were favoured. So as a virus in a host that breathes, a great little technique was to irritate their respiratory system to induce a violent sneeze or cough that would propel zillions of babies out into the air to land on other fresh hosts.

But this form of onwards travel, caused by an impact on the current host, brought with itself another peril – if they irritated (harmed) the host too severely or quickly, they ran the risk of flogging their old horse to death before another fresh horse wandered by. So they would all perish anyway. So after many years, viruses have perfected this balance between harming enough to enable movement, but not harming enough to stuff things up too quickly.

So the “usual” status quo is that various viruses “infect” all living organisms, each balancing that act of survival.

Then, to add to the beauty of the living world, and more Darwinism, it is extremely beneficial to any living organism to have mutations. These are random slight changes that make them able to take advantage of new circumstances, which is imperative if the normal environment you live in suffers a sudden change. Most mutations perish instantly, hence why successful organisms only mutate part of their population, but IF there is an opening for the small percentage that are “different”, then this enables the species to take advantage of this and go on to future glory when all the Conservatives suddenly get wiped out by some change.

Due to technical details (the nitty gritty of how viruses take hold in an organism – which is a spectacularly complex subject but really could be described as being the right shape to fit with a physical shape in the potential hosts form - read up on ACE2 receptors if you really want to go into the mechanics of it all) specific viruses end up being hosted by one or more specific hosts. Unfortunately some of those “shapes” (or potential docking stations) are much more similar and thus viable between some species more than others. IE pigs and bats and humans have potential docking stations far more close in nature than all the other hosts – from algae to walruses.

So, every so often, a virus that happily lives in a specific host will have mutations that can manage a leap to a different species. This is what has happened here.

The current belief is that this coronavirus managed such a trans-species leap due to very close contact between sick animals and people in the infamous market in Wuhan. Another version that I personally believe to be more likely is that the leap occurred in a nearby lab where scientists were studying sick bats – ie they were in extremely close contact with animals that were only there because they were sick. It just takes one mistake and ….. Everyone in that area goes to that market – and for basic things, not because it is a hive of bat-eating degenerates. But anyway, that is digressing….

So the virus, in its form, managed the leap to people. More and more people got sick, and thus was borne this notorious saga.

Perhaps an “abnormal” aspect of this virus is that it appears to be sufficiently adept in surviving and provoking transmission in its new host – people. Most times this trans-species leap occurs, a virus is not so successful. Some previous examples such as Ebola were ultimately unsuccessful to the virus – too lethal and lack of re-transmission success. Early indications are that SARS-Cov-2 has hit the jackpot – virus survival wise – in being able to leap from human to human without killing too many – managing to repeat this process and even doing it without hurting most hosts too much. It may even be able to manage host to host transmission through non-violent means – dirty hands in a toilet rather than explosive bouts of sneezing and coughing.

I really think the mortality rate of this will eventually prove to be very low compared to many omni-present existing viruses we have. But so then you have to look at the world-wide coverage this thing is gaining. And why.

From a correct or rational basis, it could be perceived that as a new virus, the final outcomes and impact are not yet known, hence “caution is prudent”. Despite it having a killer-record far lower to date than the usual human influenzas, it could also be valid to fear that as a new thing it may provoke peaks in health care needs that are going to be a tad difficult to manage. All organisms (the hosts) themselves have minute differences (mutations?) and also have effective ways to fight viruses. But when there is a rapid spread of a new thing the impact is much greater. These natural defenses get honed year by year due to our exposure to the constant sweeps of normal human influenza. But a new thing will have a sharp initial effect. So in that sense this thing is “abnormal”.

But I think the truly bizarre and abnormal aspect of this virus is based on media coverage, which drives almost all aspects of modern society – our fears, our demands on government, our emotions, etc.

People get bored with the constant barrage of the media onslaught. Even if the underlying cause is real or deserves thought or action, the media just annihilates us with carpet-bombing, which no matter how painful or important the topic, in such huge over-doses eventually produces simply numbing. So we look to a new focus….

2019 ended as a year where we were all absolutely buried in news about droughts, about bushfires, about Trump, and above all, about Climate Change. All serious topics. But I suspect we as a generation were just saturated by such. So the arising of some new topic simply had an immense appeal. At the end of the day, fearing things is an essential and valuable survival tool – and this gave us all something fresh to satisfy that need.

Think about it, truly. This scourge has killed a couple of thousand people. Even if it goes on to conquer the world, as it will, it will probably only kill tens to hundreds of thousands of people. As you have realized already, this is less than the usual influenzas. Yet governments have closed borders, economic chaos is in full swing, and there is not a single day when the headlines do not tell endless more updates about it. But really, it is trivial in the whole scene. How many tens or hundreds of thousands have died due to other illnesses in the past few months?

This brings, paradoxically, the possibility that I have expressed before – the means of preventing COVID-19 are essentially the same as preventing the usual contagious diseases – so there is a distinct possibility that this virus will end up causing an overall drop in casualties from viruses!

In summary, this virus has some quirks and “novel” aspects, but is really insignificant. The hype and attention are just because the public loves a crisis that the media delightfully and profitably feeds them….

Jesus, this post is long, even for me!! :0

Thank you for this explanation. I am not one to panic over whatever virus of the year or hide away in fear and postpone travel due to media hype. I am far more worried about the effect of media hype on upcoming travel plans and things like forced quarantines like the Diamond Princess, countries refusing entrance, airlines cancelling flights.

I just got back from Turkey via Dubai and Qatar with no issues at all. I was nervous about the cases found in Iran might possibly migrate to Qatar on the way back and mess up flights but thankfully nothing happened.

Now we have a trip planned for late May to remote Indonesia via Singapore. (Sulawesi and Halmahera). I plan to use Avios for BNE-SIN, SQ for SIN-UPG and VA for DPS-BNE. I am ready to book and the flights are available. But I am worried if this thing gets out of control and flights get cancelled or Singapore or Indonesia bans Australians from entry.

 

[Pushka]

A new case in Aus caught by someone doing a stopover in SIN. ☹ Looks like an SQ flight is not a good idea. I’m not so worried about getting the virus as getting stuck somewhere.

Getting stuck is our issue too. And that can happen instantly.

Post automatically merged: Mar 5, 2020

Obviously not, as I booked travel for Dec this yearduring the DSC after the declaration of Covid-19 as a known event, and as yet havent bothered with a paid travel insurance policy for that trip as couldnt find one that would cover it. Relying on the Amex insurance, and have booked fully refundable hotel (upt to 3 days out) to see what happens.

The policy I bought back in Sept for my June/July trip excludes pandemics so he cant be that "expert".

Interestingly Insure and go does (did, in the case of covid) cover them.

 

[Denali]

A new case in Aus caught by someone doing a stopover in SIN. ☹ Looks like an SQ flight is not a good idea. I’m not so worried about getting the virus as getting stuck somewhere.

If I had to get stuck somewhere, Singapore would be on the preferred list of places.

 

[Lynda2475]

Interestingly Insure and go does (did, in the case of covid) cover them.

I may have been overly hasty. I just re-read my policy for the June/July trip - the only place where its mentions pandemics is:

What's not covered under any part of your policy

2. Failure to follow a Do Not Travel warning issued by the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade or another
official authority's warnings against travel to a particular country or part of a country due to:
a. severe weather or natural disaster;
b. riot, strike, civil commotion, martial law, political unrest; or
c. a threat or likelihood of or an actual contagious disease, epidemic or pandemic;
and you not taking the appropriate action to avoid or minimise any potential claim under your policy, including delay of travel referred to in the warning. Please refer to www.dfat.gov.au, www.smarttraveller.gov.au and www.who.int for further information on the status of a region or country.

No cover is available for any incident under any section of this policy should you travel to a country or region for which the
Australian Government has issued a Do Not Travel warning.

So im guessing I am covered for treatment of Covid-19 provided there is not a Do Not Travel warning to any of the countries I travel to or transit through at the time of my trip, because I took out the policy 4 months before Covid-19 was decalred an event.

But since it is now a known event, not sure who will cover me for COvid-19 if I get it on a trip booked after the decalaration?

 

[dajop]

A new case in Aus caught by someone doing a stopover in SIN. ☹ Looks like an SQ flight is not a good idea. I’m not so worried about getting the virus as getting stuck somewhere.

Stopover or layover? The media report I read describes it as a short "stopover", but they probably aren't as precise as a bunch of travel geeks about the definition of a stopover.

 

[Lynda2475]

New policy communicated at Work today for personal travel (all international company travel is banned for March, April and May):

Employees planning to travel, or returning from, ‘at risk’* countries. While we are managing through the COVID-19 situation, employees should therefore note:

• If you travel to one of the companies listed at risk countries* including transit through them for personal travel you will be required to self-isolate for 14 days upon your return. You must notify your manager of your intention to travel as soon as possible after booking and well in advance of your departure. The following may be implemented as required.
• If you booked the travel after we communicated our position (5th of March), and:
  • are unable to work from home then the period of isolation may be at your cost i.e. you may be required to use your annual leave or leave without pay. If you are sick during that period you may be able to access any accrued personal leave.
  • you have approval from your manager and can work from home, the period of isolation will be served simultaneously while you are working from home in which case you will be paid. If you are sick during that period you can access any accrued personal leave.
• If you booked travel before we communicated our position (5th of March), and:
  • you are able to work from home, your period of isolation will be undertaken utilising the work from home provisions in the Flexible Work Arrangements Policy. If you are sick during that period you can access any accrued personal leave.
  • are unable to work from home upon your return for the period of isolation, you should tell your manager and this will be managed on a case by case basis in consultation with People & Culture.

The listed at risk countries (changes all the time) is currently:

• China
• Iran
• Mongolia
• Italy
• Japan
• South Korea

 

[Pushka]

I may have been overly hasty. I just re-read my policy for the June/July trip - the only place where its mentions pandemics is:

What's not covered under any part of your policy

2. Failure to follow a Do Not Travel warning issued by the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade or another
official authority's warnings against travel to a particular country or part of a country due to:
a. severe weather or natural disaster;
b. riot, strike, civil commotion, martial law, political unrest; or
c. a threat or likelihood of or an actual contagious disease, epidemic or pandemic;
and you not taking the appropriate action to avoid or minimise any potential claim under your policy, including delay of travel referred to in the warning. Please refer to www.dfat.gov.au, www.smarttraveller.gov.au and www.who.int for further information on the status of a region or country.

No cover is available for any incident under any section of this policy should you travel to a country or region for which the
Australian Government has issued a Do Not Travel warning.

So im guessing I am covered for treatment of Covid-19 provided there is not a Do Not Travel warning to any of the countries I travel to or transit through at the time of my trip, because I took out the policy 4 months before Covid-19 was decalred an event.

But since it is now a known event, not sure who will cover me for COvid-19 if I get it on a trip booked after the decalaration?

It's not the date of the trip that counts (provided with an annual policy or defined date policy the trip is within those dates) but it is the date that the Policy was purchased that defines the date of cover. Purchase the policy before their cut off (late January 2020 sometime - it will be specified to the minute on the company's website) and any Trips in that cover period will be covered.

 

[get me outta here]

I’m assuming that one would get stuck in a hotel room probably with not even a balcony for fresh air, no excercise and have to eat hotel food for at least two weeks, all at my expense. I’m not sure the location and would make a huge difference to the way I felt about that.

If I had to get stuck somewhere, Singapore would be on the preferred list of places.

 

[p--and--t]

I’m assuming that one would get stuck in a hotel room probably with not even a balcony for fresh air and have to eat hotel food for at least two weeks, all at my expense. I’m not sure the location and would make a huge difference to the way I felt about that.

Possibly a 5* hotel with a large suite, free wifi, a big TV, a tub and lounge suite would make me a lot happier about such a time than a 2* tiny room in a "dive"

 

[Denali]

I’m assuming that one would get stuck in a hotel room probably with not even a balcony for fresh air, no excercise and have to eat hotel food for at least two weeks, all at my expense. I’m not sure the location and would make a huge difference to the way I felt about that.

We have different ideas of hotels and food deliveries

 

[Pushka]

Possibly a 5* hotel with a large suite, free wifi, a big TV, a tub and lounge suite would make me a lot happier about such a time than a 2* tiny room in a "dive"

There is no way any isolation centre is going to have much other than a bed and a mirror and table. Food deliveries? Try a bento box if lucky I'd say.

 

[dajop]

I’m assuming that one would get stuck in a hotel room probably with not even a balcony for fresh air, no excercise and have to eat hotel food for at least two weeks, all at my expense. I’m not sure the location and would make a huge difference to the way I felt about that.

Bali might be the place to be stuck then, rent out a private villa, relatively cheaply at a far flung end of the island