Heads up about program changes

[OATEK]

As a mere PS and only flying for recreation, QF does nothing for me.
I can understand blocking some seats for possible future passengers with status but I have flown one too many Row 3 QFd flights where the meal choice inevitably becomes soup or cheese plate with service rushed (even SYD to ADL) as they take their time with the passengers and fellow staff in Row 1.
Small sample sizes but the dozen or so flights the family have done since with VA have all been great. Sure the lounges are not as good but are fine for our simple tastes. Also like not having to manage around
JQ as per our recent trip to Hamilton where the four of us were able to fly VA J together with only one ticket 'bought'.

For those of us with b*gger all status, there may be a huge difference between QF & VA over seat selection and onboard service. Next week I am doing SYD-MEL in "J" on an award flight with QF, row 3. Will I get any service, well from what a number of people have said probably not. On the return flight MEL-SYD I am on VA "J" again on an award flight - but this time in Row 1. First time I will have compared them side-by-side in this way and it will be interesting.

 

[SydneySwan]

For those of us with b*gger all status, there may be a huge difference between QF & VA over seat selection and onboard service. Next week I am doing SYD-MEL in "J" on an award flight with QF, row 3. Will I get any service, well from what a number of people have said probably not. On the return flight MEL-SYD I am on VA "J" again on an award flight - but this time in Row 1. First time I will have compared them side-by-side in this way and it will be interesting.

Looking forward to reading your report on these two flights.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I mostly agree with your points and I think that is not a good sign.

Firstly there is a reason why Virgin is cheaper. It is not Qantas. On domestic Qantas does all little things better. From in flight service to service recovery to customer service to terminals to lounges and lounge offerings etc. To me Qantas feels professional. And before anyone tries to correct me I have witnessed first hand a few times Virgin's attrocious efforts at service recovery, in flight service, lounges.

As far as international goes there really is no comparison. Virgin's international services are very thin.

So I now earn more Velocity points on cheaper airfares. Great. But what do I with them? I have no desire to go to LAX and certainly no desire to go to AUH or fly Etihad. Toasters? If someone on AFF would start gloating how easy it was to redeem Velocity points to go to SE Asia on SQ and received great value for money then I may start showing some interest in Velocity.

And what is disturbing right now is the lack of Quality sales. Every year Qantas would discount school holiday periods if you booked well in advance. Not this year. And Virgin is following suit. I am not spending $145 on a SYD-BNE airfare. Yes I know Virgin is still cheaper but I will travel less weeekends. I can't see how that could be better for any airline.

Interesting times.

Interesting note that when I fly Y domestic, booking generally a <7 days out and it's rare if I'm lucky enough to book during a sale.

BNE-SYD is generally:
QF: 182 - 240 one way
VA: 119 - 165 one way

So long as I'm paying more than ~120 one way, I'm earning more points on Velocity than under QFF.
If I make 2 return trips/month I save on average ~$120 on each return trip or $3,120/year.

$3.1K is almost a paid business class return to south east asia, which I'll earn even more points on as well!
VA, while not as easy to get redemptions on SQ, they are superior value to QFF when considering everything:

- Earning more points than QFF when flying domestic (so you get to the points goal faster)
- Most credit cards give you the ability to earn more VA points per $ than QFF per $ (so you get more points faster, again)
- Lower "taxes" than QFF on redemptions
- Attractive points + pay options
- SQ/EY premium cabins > QF

This is not factoring in things I value like domestic priority boarding which VA has perfected and QF struggles to get right.
Row 4 issues on QF - where VA I can choose any seat and get a shadow easy (even on a full flight as I had yesterday).

I'm not saying VA is the best program ever but when you plan out what things look like for you over the coming years and look at what is most important to you (keeping in mind what you value may be different to what I or anyone else values), I feel there is more to consider than who will give you the most free stuff when something goes wrong. Maybe that's why QF charge more to begin with...;p

 

[JohnK]

I'm not saying VA is the best program ever but when you plan out what things look like for you over the coming years and look at what is most important to you (keeping in mind what you value may be different to what I or anyone else values), I feel there is more to consider than who will give you the most free stuff when something goes wrong. Maybe that's why QF charge more to begin with...;p

Everyone is different.

I can generally plan ahead and at the last sale SYD-BNE Virgin was $14 cheaper than Qantas. I would spend at least that much to stay away from SYD T2. And I get more than 1 beer and something to eat at dinner time on Qantas. If money was the sole factor then I should be flying Tiger and JQ more often. Perceived comfort is just as important.

The non-sale airfare on Qantas is a huge worry as you have quite rightly pointed out. I don't need to travel every week. Perhaps I need to suck it up and fly out of OOL for a few weeks or use my QFF points stash on some domestic business class.

I can earn Qantas points faster but right now they are useless. Looking at using Velocity points is not much better. I have asked for advice on this site in the past and the answer is not that clear cut. Difficult to get SQ redemptions.

What I see as an issue is not the same as what you see as an issue. I outlined the things that are important to me in the post you quoted and I see enough difference to warrant staying put. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Everyone is different.

I can generally plan ahead and at the last sale SYD-BNE Virgin was $14 cheaper than Qantas. I would spend at least that much to stay away from SYD T2. And I get more than 1 beer and something to eat at dinner time on Qantas. If money was the sole factor then I should be flying Tiger and JQ more often. Perceived comfort is just as important.

The non-sale airfare on Qantas is a huge worry as you have quite rightly pointed out. I don't need to travel every week. Perhaps I need to suck it up and fly out of OOL for a few weeks or use my QFF points stash on some domestic business class.

I can earn Qantas points faster but right now they are useless. Looking at using Velocity points is not much better. I have asked for advice on this site in the past and the answer is not that clear cut. Difficult to get SQ redemptions.

What I see as an issue is not the same as what you see as an issue. I outlined the things that are important to me in the post you quoted and I see enough difference to warrant staying put. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

I figure if I can convince you Velocity is better, then QFF really is ****ed.

Catch up for a drink soon and I can show you through something I've been working on?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

$3.1K is almost a paid business class return to south east asia, which I'll earn even more points on as well!

Better than that! These days $3.1K is a confirmed mixed class all the way to Europe, with a partner such as Sri Lankan from Singapore with full flat beds. For $2.5K you can fly mixed class SQ/AI - again with flat beds on the AI sectors and just an hour on the ground in DEL.

 

[Awesom Andy]

And then there are times when there really isn't a choice. Looking at SIN-MEL flights for end of Oct for a weekend (most of you know which one), in Y, I can get QF/JQ/EK/BA for around $700 SGD, or SQ for $1500 SGD. J is >$3k on MH, or >$4k on QF/EK/BA, or just shy of $5k on SQ. I think my choice has been basically reduced to either 1. go, or, 2. not go.

 

[JohnK]

I figure if I can convince you Velocity is better, then QFF really is ****ed.

Catch up for a drink soon and I can show you through something I've been working on?

I have no doubt QFF has serious issues. Unless I am missing something plainly obvious Velocity is not my answer. Neither is BAEC the answer. Or Asia Miles and while we are there forget Marco Polo. And AAdvantage.

Perhaps next drinks night.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

Stacked up against pretty much any other program, QFF has serious issues. Whether it's redemption rates, fees and charges on awards, partner earning rates, flexibility of earning without being locked in (i.e. transferability of credit card earn), I struggle to see any advantage.

The only thing which keeps me crediting OW flights to them is heading towards LTG (despite a fear this will be enhanced at some point), and a fear that AAdvantage will go through further devaluations.

 

[DaveB]

For those of us with b*gger all status, there may be a huge difference between QF & VA over seat selection and onboard service. Next week I am doing SYD-MEL in "J" on an award flight with QF, row 3. Will I get any service, well from what a number of people have said probably not. On the return flight MEL-SYD I am on VA "J" again on an award flight - but this time in Row 1. First time I will have compared them side-by-side in this way and it will be interesting.

12 months ago, I had close to 2m QF points for which none of my family wanted to fly QF choosing VA every time. QStore has been my salvation.
My daughters four VA trips and our one to Melbourne so far this year have resulted in early flights being offered every time.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

It seems the change to the domestic distance zones was designed specifically to just push certain routes under the new limit for the lowest tier of earn and therefore punish the commuters and regular business travellers. It seems pretty cynical and stupid to me. It's possible QF could not have made the changes any more of slap in the face for their supporters if they tried (maybe short of closing QFF).

I really hope they see sense because they really have p1ssed everyone off with this latest round of enhancements/simplifications.

Spending $350-400 for a flexi fare and getting 20SCs for a 2 hour flight is frankly insulting when you can earn 10 on an $89 SYD-BNE sale fare.

 

[JohnK]

Spending $350-400 for a flexi fare and getting 20SCs for a 2 hour flight is frankly insulting when you can earn 10 on an $89 SYD-BNE sale fare.

Do you care that you can earn double what your flexi fare earns on JQ for even less than the SYD-BNE airfare?

 

[hossein_au]

It seems the change to the domestic distance zones was designed specifically to just push certain routes under the new limit for the lowest tier of earn and therefore punish the commuters and regular business travellers. It seems pretty cynical and stupid to me. It's possible QF could not have made the changes any more of slap in the face for their supporters if they tried (maybe short of closing QFF).

I really hope they see sense because they really have p1ssed everyone off with this latest round of enhancements/simplifications.

Hey, be careful, I am sure there are a couple of people here who love to get up to your face and argue how dare you generalise like this and claim Qantas has passed everyone!! They will argue you are the odd one out because you cannot see how Qantas is the greatest airline since... I don't know... sliced bread... nnaaaahhh, since... Ansett (tongue firmly planted on the cheek )

 

[Awesom Andy]

I struggle to see any advantage.

But we can still get our toasters where others cannot.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Do you care that you can earn double what your flexi fare earns on JQ for even less than the SYD-BNE airfare?

Flying JQ negates any other benefit from that equation.

 

[hossein_au]

... And before anyone tries to correct me I have witnessed first hand a few times Virgin's attrocious efforts at service recovery, in flight service, lounges...

Why would anyone correct anyone else here is beyond me (especially on subjective matters such as quality of service). I'm fine with people sharing their experience, but I am baffled how some people here keep trying to correct others while it is as clear as day that it is a futile effort. You obviously value Qantas over Virgin. Good for you. Each to their own, I'd say.

 

[hossein_au]

For those of us with b*gger all status, there may be a huge difference between QF & VA over seat selection and onboard service. Next week I am doing SYD-MEL in "J" on an award flight with QF, row 3. Will I get any service, well from what a number of people have said probably not. On the return flight MEL-SYD I am on VA "J" again on an award flight - but this time in Row 1. First time I will have compared them side-by-side in this way and it will be interesting.

Love to hear your experience.

 

[esquire]

It seems the change to the domestic distance zones was designed specifically to just push certain routes under the new limit for the lowest tier of earn and therefore punish the commuters and regular business travellers. It seems pretty cynical and stupid to me. It's possible QF could not have made the changes any more of slap in the face for their supporters if they tried (maybe short of closing QFF).

I really hope they see sense because they really have p1ssed everyone off with this latest round of enhancements/simplifications.

Indeed as a heavy domestic flyer it does impact me - BNE-TSV, SYD-HOB is now 20 and CNS-SYD is now 30. CNS-BNE is also 30.. mmmm...
Of course to upgrade to CNS-SYD it is 10,000 points (flexi) of course 10,000 points is the same for SYD-PER but that is still 40SC. So that is fairer..

 

[JohnK]

Why would anyone correct anyone else here is beyond me (especially on subjective matters such as quality of service). I'm fine with people sharing their experience, but I am buff led how some people here keep trying to correct others while it is as clear as day that it is a futile effort. You obviously value Qantas over Virgin. Good for you. Each to their own, I'd say.

Apologies but it is all subjective.

I value Qantas over Virgin because Virgin have had more than enough chances and do nothing for me. Customer service, terminals, lounges, in flight service. All subjective. I should just shut up about my poor experiences, opinions, and let medhead and everyone else keep telling us that Virgin is great. Velocity could be an OK alternative but it's biggest problem is Virgin.

Some people think Virgin are great. I don't. Everyone shares their experiences, their opinions, of why they think one is better than the other.

 

[medhead]

Apologies but it is all subjective.

I value Qantas over Virgin because Virgin have had more than enough chances and do nothing for me. Customer service, terminals, lounges, in flight service. All subjective. I should just shut up about my poor experiences, opinions, and let medhead and everyone else keep telling us that Virgin is great. Velocity could be an OK alternative but it's biggest problem is Virgin.

Some people think Virgin are great. I don't. Everyone shares their experiences, their opinions, of why they think one is better than the other.

Yet again you have completed failed to understand what I'm saying. I have never said Virgin are great - I will correct you on that point, as you are absolutely wrong to suggest I have.
I did not say that and I have never said that, your clear verbaling of me on this point demonstrates an utter failure.