Heads up about program changes

[cmon0005]

I just did a 4 Leg MASA (booked before announcement) all on 737's each time there were at least 3 seats in J empty. To say that my ~50k points used + ~$350 in copayment didn't make them money is rubbish.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

anyone can book AA codeshares on their AUS-USA QF flights - I wonder if that will count as AA sectors for AA status

 

[RSD]

3. How do you defend the indefensible?

By doing what Red Roo did - turn up to a party, throw a proverbial hand grenade into the middle - and flee!

 

[Jack_OC]

and/or, regarding the last point, decide to stop chasing status (which is an ever so slightly silly thing for many of us) and merely trade points for classic awards. The very same classic awards that they would have been willing to pay extra dough for to turn into a MASA to get points and SCs. Revenue loss.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that when someone gets status, it costs QF money. Potentially a lot of money. Consider a WP who flies mainly internationally with OW partners in Y. They use the QF F Lounge before departure and then multiple OW partner lounges while O/S (with QF getting charged every time). Now if that person trades points for Classic Awards instead of MASAs, and loses status as a result, is it still a revenue loss for QF? I doubt it.

You personally may not fit into the category above, but I would guess that you're not in a position to know how many people do. QF, on the other hand, should have a fair idea.

 

[marki]

So I have just looked at our travel to see what effect it would have for mrsdrron requalifying WP.
First of all it is called simpler.Well the old SC earning table had 12 lines of SC earns.
On the QF website the new earnings tables have 65 lines.
Simpler.If anyone thinks it is I pity them.

Fairer?
So looked at the circle asia trip I have coming up.When booked it was going to earn 500SCs-D class.
Same trip if booked now for travel after 1/7 would earn 340-360 SCs.Difference is the BKK-KUL sector on GCM is 754 miles but I will be surprised if QF doesn't have it at 749 miles!

This trip is on QF ticket stock.Only 1 flight is post 1/7.KUL-BNE on 3/7.Now if it is going to be credited at new rates mrsdrron loses 60SCs so will fall short of requalifying by 50scs-I do judge it nicely!
Now the FAQs re the new system say this-

Nothing about QF or partner airlines being different.Yet it has been implied that that might not be for partner airlines.However I have now put it on public record so if less SCs than planned Consumer affairs will be involved.Now that is FAIR.

Awful loss of SC's

 

[zainman]

Interesting. The 100 segment rule actually means AA could make a lot of sense for a very frequent dom flyer, but only if they can get the 4 eligible sectors on AA etc. Eg if someone did 48 MEL-SYD Red edeal rtns plus 4 short AA sectors they would get to OWE with AA, but not even close with QFF.

It has been suggested in another thread that AA don't necessarily enforce the 4 segment rule..

 

[Newk]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that when someone gets status, it costs QF money. Potentially a lot of money. Consider a WP who flies mainly internationally with OW partners in Y. They use the QF F Lounge before departure and then multiple OW partner lounges while O/S (with QF getting charged every time). Now if that person trades points for Classic Awards instead of MASAs, and loses status as a result, is it still a revenue loss for QF? I doubt it.

You personally may not fit into the category above, but I would guess that you're not in a position to know how many people do. QF, on the other hand, should have a fair idea.

Hi Jack

well I didn't ignore status cost sorry . I suggest you read the post and don't edit out the bit that referred to valuing status. It's pretty easy to critic someone's post when you edit out the bit you say is missing

regards

Newk

 

[equus]

I am not surprised Qantas want to reduce status credit earnings on other One World airlines as up to date there was no great benefit in using Qantas over the others when you could earn the same Qantas status credits elsewhere.
My major beef is that the changes should apply only to new bookings for flights after July First as like many others I have booked flights in August on BA on the assumption status credits would be as at present.
It is too late for me to change back to Qantas now and I doubt I would anyway!
Is this the right way for Qantas to have handled the changes?

My understanding was that all existing bookings would be paid out under the conditions they were booked under.

I agree with you - see below.

Dear Robbi

Your comment was correct only to QF bookings, not OW ones.

What makes you say that? See my quote further down. This talks about when bookings were made - with no distinction about carrier or ticket stock (which is something else to think about - not only which carrier is the flight booked on, but what stock is the ticket issued on - if an e-ticket can actually be issued on stock)

I believe so. I have bookings CX J to CDG in August, also booked and ticketed in December.

I have taken a PDF capture of the FAQ available at Frequent Flyer - Program - Fairer Flying FAQs = specifically the

Q: What if I've already booked?
A: If you have flights booked (booked and ticketed prior to Sat 29 Mar 2014) for travel on/after 1 July 2014, you will earn the Qantas Points and Status credits that applied at the time you made your booking. The applicable Qantas Points will be credited to your Qantas Frequent Flyer Account approximately four weeks after the dates of the flight(s) taken.

It doesn't say that it applies only to QF tickets - so I am assuming it applies to me. I have taken a capture, as this question has already changed at least once - the original version didn't mention Status credits - that got inserted later (hopefully in response to RedRoo reading some of the queries here).

 

[RSD]

Now that we've all had a chance to digest this and get a handle on how the changes are going to affect us, perhaps we need to take a look at the underlying issues - exactly how bad must things be at Qantas if they have come up with this ill-thought out scheme, made a complete and utter mess of the implementation (amateurish doesn't even half describe it), and I think totally underestimated the effect it is going to have on customer loyalty? If things are as bad as what this mess suggests - is Qantas still going to be flying by Christmas?

 

[Jack_OC]

I just did a 4 Leg MASA (booked before announcement) all on 737's each time there were at least 3 seats in J empty. To say that my ~50k points used + ~$350 in copayment didn't make them money is rubbish.

What status did you get by doing this, and how much use you will make of that status?!

 

[TheEmu]

It would be far batter if all loyalty programs...

Well they certainly have thrown themselves into boiling oil.

I wasn't going do a line fishing for puns in this thread but play the chips where they fall, I say...

 

[DC3]

... I think Qantas has stuffed this one up in their haste to get these changes across. Perhaps there will be a re-think.

... and starting with the return of Anytime Access.

 

[cmon0005]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that when someone gets status, it costs QF money. Potentially a lot of money. Consider a WP who flies mainly internationally with OW partners in Y. They use the QF F Lounge before departure and then multiple OW partner lounges while O/S (with QF getting charged every time). Now if that person trades points for Classic Awards instead of MASAs, and loses status as a result, is it still a revenue loss for QF? I doubt it.

You personally may not fit into the category above, but I would guess that you're not in a position to know how many people do. QF, on the other hand, should have a fair idea.

The carrier who is operating (or marketing in some cases) the flight pays for the lounge access not the card holders airline. Note JQ and EK agreement may be different to OW.

 

[Robbi]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that when someone gets status, it costs QF money. Potentially a lot of money. Consider a WP who flies mainly internationally with OW partners in Y. They use the QF F Lounge before departure and then multiple OW partner lounges while O/S (with QF getting charged every time). Now if that person trades points for Classic Awards instead of MASAs, and loses status as a result, is it still a revenue loss for QF? I doubt it.

You personally may not fit into the category above, but I would guess that you're not in a position to know how many people do. QF, on the other hand, should have a fair idea.

It's a revenue loss for QF when the affected peeps simply fly with other airlines and get their OWS/OWE there instead.

 

[Princess Fiona]

anyone can book AA codeshares on their AUS-USA QF flights - I wonder if that will count as AA sectors for AA status

AFAIK AA does not enforce the sector requirement for status.

 

[hossein_au]

Now that we've all had a chance to digest this and get a handle on how the changes are going to affect us, perhaps we need to take a look at the underlying issues - exactly how bad must things be at Qantas if they have come up with this ill-thought out scheme, made a complete and utter mess of the implementation (amateurish doesn't even half describe it), and I think totally underestimated the effect it is going to have on customer loyalty? If things are as bad as what this mess suggests - is Qantas still going to be flying by Christmas?

Qantas has been on the path to become a mere travel agent for EK on international routes. I wouldn't be surprised if Qantas stop their international routes altogether, or reduce them to mainly a ceremonial symbol.

 

[Newk]

What status did you get by doing this, and how much use you will make of that status?!

probably without realising it you are making EXACTLY the point. We have no idea how QFF values status.....although if someone can be bothered a possible start is to cost the difference between a classic award and a full points ASA as currently available online.
The point that some of us make is that if QFF has a value on status build it into the MASA copayment. But I am happy to again admit that I have no knowledge of these things and my opinion is only informed by my custom of QF and my use of QFF

 

[equus]

Q: What if I've already booked?
A: If you have flights booked (booked and ticketed prior to Sat 29 Mar 2014) for travel on/after 1 July 2014, you will earn the Qantas Points and Status credits that applied at the time you made your booking. The applicable Qantas Points will be credited to your Qantas Frequent Flyer Account approximately four weeks after the dates of the flight(s) taken.

Nothing about QF or partner airlines being different.Yet it has been implied that that might not be for partner airlines.However I have now put it on public record so if less SCs than planned Consumer affairs will be involved.Now that is FAIR.

Count me in with you on that. In the same boat (as in need the appropriate credits - but our tickets are CX on CX stock), and have taken a copy of that FAQ. I don't think they can back away from that now, although I am fully expecting to have to email in a copy of the e-ticket after the event, with a request for the 'Original Scheme Credits' (a new take on Original Routing Credits - for real fun, end up with an involuntary re-route, and see what happens trying to claim both....)

 

[MarcB]

Despite them having been rejigged a few times, there are still some misleading errors in the information on the website. On this page Frequent Flyer - Program - Examples of changes to earn there are a number of examples comparing old and new. Because "T" class has now been banded into the "Flexible Economy" category, that entire part of the table is just plain wrong when comparing old and new.

Under the current system, T class earns at PE rates, meaning status bonus and total points is higher than a flexible Y ticket. Using BNE to LAX as an example, the old PE earn including Cabin Bonus is 8958. Under the new "simple" system, the earn is now 9000 points because it's classified as Flexible Economy. The table make you think that you used to only earn 7,166 for this flight if you treat it as Flexible Economy (which it never was) or think you'll get 11250 if you treat it as PE (which it not longer is). I still fail to see the logic of having 3 different earn categories for PE. Why not just have T and R in Premium Economy and W in Flexible Premium Economy? It makes NO SENSE whatsoever to band a PE fare in with Economy earn rates when the only benefit seems to be to shave a few measly points off the earn given the SCs remain the same for both T and R.

 

[Jack_OC]

Hi Jack

well I didn't ignore status cost sorry . I suggest you read the post and don't edit out the bit that referred to valuing status. It's pretty easy to critic someone's post when you edit out the bit you say is missing

regards

Newk

Apologies, I'd did indeed miss that bit. I didn't deliberately edit it out though! That's the crux of the issue though. The cost of MASAs to QF is not simply (or even primarily) the seat you occupy on the plane - but numerous people on this thread are talking like it is. The issue for them is as Red Roo explained at the start - people are getting a short cut to status (which costs QF money) without giving them sufficient revenue in return. That is a perfectly plausible and logical explanation IMHO.

Clearly lots of people think that QF is wrong (and/or lying about the reason for this change). The fact is though, I don't think any of them are in a position to know whether MASAs were profitable or not, whereas QF is in a position to know that. Additionally, if indeed MASAs were profitable for QF, what do you think the real reason is for getting rid of them? Deliberately trying annoy people and/or lose money?