Heads up about program changes

[Oneworldplus2]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread so this comment will have most likely been made previously, but the toughening up on status is most likely a good thing for genuine frequent flyers. For years, almost all and sundry have been given status by gaming the system (not a bad past time, I agree) but frequent flyer perks are by definition, supposed benefits for frequent flyers rather than infrequent flyers. Infrequent flyers can receive similar perks but they have to pay for J or F. An airline wanting people to fly their metal when available is understandable IMHO.

I agree with you, but not 100%.

If it was a true 'frequent flyer program', why did they -

Get rid of upgrade certs ?
Why did they change BIS earning from kilometres to miles ?
Change the minimum earn to 800 points (down from 1000) ?
Cap the status bonus (yearly) ?
Reset the status bonus each year ? (not sure about that one)

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Is this xASA argument still going on?

I'll say it again QF makes money (at a decent rate I suspect) by issuing and redeeming points,it was not cheating them in anyway. I'm open to seeing some evidence otherwise, but I doubt QF will ever relaease such figures.

QF couldn't function as a airline if all seats were redeemed as marginal ASAs or Classic awards - whilst they make money selling points (you can only make money once - either when you sell, or when the pax redeems - not both times), it's not enough to cover the cost of the actual revenue foregone. Which would explain why classic award seats have always been capacity controlled.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

mASA's also encouraged people to part with their points instead of hoarding them, thereby reducing QFF liabilities.

Except that they have to provide an actual service for those points, which costs money. I think QF would rather just have a liability (that potentially just goes away by itself, if the points are allowed to expire)

Why would I burn points if I wasn't going to gain some benefit from them?

?!?

On every other airline program, the fact you get a "free" flight is the benefit. QF seems to be the only mainline carrier out there to offer a program where you can book "cheap" redemptions (i.e. not at market prices), and have those treated as actual revenue flights.

 

[Deleted User]

a MASA is booked into the same fare bucket a classic, hence they are restricted...! (Capacity Controlled)

 

[Robert K]

I agree with you, but not 100%.

If it was a true 'frequent flyer program', why did they -

Get rid of upgrade certs ?
Why did they change BIS earning from kilometres to miles ?
Change the minimum earn to 800 points (down from 1000) ?
Cap the status bonus (yearly) ?
Reset the status bonus each year ? (not sure about that one)

So any program that has no upgrade certs, count in miles, Min earn less then 1000, cap status bonus, reset status bonus each year, can not be considered a true frequent flyer program?? They must all be fake out there.

 

[Mr_Orange]

Reset the status bonus each year ? (not sure about that one)

I'm sure about this one and it really p1ssed me off and I told QF as much in some feedback. You might not fly that often, but if every time you do, it is with QF, then you are 100% loyal. Why then does the loyalty bonus reset at year end? The SCs for that should just keep ticking up until you hit 500 and voila, your loyalty is rewarded with 8000 QFF points.

 

[SeatBackForward]

QF couldn't function as a airline if all seats were redeemed as marginal ASAs or Classic awards - whilst they make money selling points (you can only make money once - either when you sell, or when the pax redeems - not both times), it's not enough to cover the cost of the actual revenue foregone. Which would explain why classic award seats have always been capacity controlled.

Major flaw in the above argument, Qantas *can* make money both ways. they get to control the "value" of points on both sides of the equation.

 

[legroom]

..... An airline wanting people to fly their metal when available is understandable IMHO.

Yes, I also understand that point and agree with you.

But, why would QF penalise those who choose to fly OW routes where there is no QF metal by giving out less points & SCs ?

It's not SYD/MEL-LHR we are talking about here.

What's the benefits of OW alliance if you are penalised for following the national carrier's partners ?

 

[JohnK]

Yes. I specifically said I was assuming that.

Why else would someone book a MASA? That's a genuine question btw, if I've missed something please set me straight. The impression I got from this forum was that they were primarily, if not exclusively, a tool to get status.

Qantas is the only airline in the world that allows SCs earn on Any Seat awards.

When you do BNE-MEL-PER-KTA and return 2 days in a row on a Double SCs offer you are only using it for status? How about ADL-PER-TSV return with a TSV-BNE-DRW return nested in there?

And then go and create a spreadsheet on a public forum to constantly brag and gloat about your achievements?

Now Qantas is stating that Any Seat awards are not profitable. So people are going to take their points to another airline that does not offer earning on awards. Why not stay with Qantas? Classic awards not good enough?

As someone else mentioned Qantas is not going to lose anything by removing SCs earning Any Seat awards. And those that are leaving don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Robert K]

Think about this enhancement as QF lowering SC to the OW earn level.
But you get a x2 bonus if you fly on QF metal. WOW!

Thanks for the extra SC Qantas!

There. Doesn't that make you feel better.

 

[MarcB]

My two cents worth...

Overall, the majority of changes are not a big deal to me. There are, however, some glaring mistakes in tables and the system is far from "simple" despite the claims by QF otherwise. The cutting of SCs on OW airlines by 50%, is not, IMHO, in the spirit of the OW alliance.

But my biggest beef??? What continues to astound me when QF implement changes, is how poor the execution is - the other recent example would be the new booking engine. When making these sorts of sweeping changes, the focus should be on getting it right from the get-go. When they fail to do this, they create a backlash. This is just another example.

Your customers should not be pointing out errors in tables to you. Your calculator should not return "no flights found" when trying to calculate earn under the new system - on any route, let alone ones you actually service like SYD-JFK and MEL-LHR. BA have a fully functioning calculator that shows ALL OW routes, why can QF not get this right?

Under a non miles based system, how am I supposed to work out how many points for the routes that QF don't fly without a degree in geography and aviation economics without a calculator??

 

[amaroo]

Yes, I also understand that point and agree with you.

But, why would QF penalise those who choose to fly OW routes where there is no QF metal by giving out less points & SCs ?

It's not SYD/MEL-LHR we are talking about here.

What's the benefits of OW alliance if you are penalised for following the national carrier's partners ?

a few possible explanations...

a) Phase two of their eventual departure of OW
b) Following instructions from the Sand Pit (EK)
c) Elimination of lucrative AA status runs - inflicting collateral damage on all other OW partners
d) They just don't give a rats about FF that fly on other airlines
e) Front runner that will be quickly copied by other OW partners instigating similar changes to their schemes

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Major flaw in the above argument, Qantas *can* make money both ways. they get to control the "value" of points on both sides of the equation.

OK - lay it out to me, like I'm stupid - how does this work day-to-day for QANTAS?

 

[legroom]

That FAQ seems quite clear that existing ticketed bookings for flights (on QF & OW) after 1 July will earn according to what applied at the time of booking. I will certainly be watching my Sept-Oct DONE5 results carefully..

I think you are reading way to much into that page. I don't think you would dispute that QF bookings ticketed prior to March 29 for travel after July 1 will earn at the old rate.....Whilst I agree it would be good for a confirmation from RedRoo, I am not too worried....

JohnM

The inference about OW (bookings before 27th March) is just that.... inference.

EQUUS

I am not worried, just annoyed.

I would have more than enough SCs to requal for WP even under the new SIMPLER / FAIRER tables but just simply annoyed at the lack of transparency and if true (that OW bookings made before 27th March is denied old-rate SCs), that would represent a new low in my book for corporate behaviour i.e. retrospective application of new T & C.

See here

Is there any reference for OW bookings made / ticketed before the cut-off date ?


Earning Status credits with our partner airlines

There are also some changes to the way you earn Status credits on our partner airlines which will be effective for travel on and from 1 July 2014. See the table below for details on the number of Status credits you'll earn on partner airlines for travel from 1 July 2014.

a few possible explanations...

a) Phase two of their eventual departure of OW
b) Following instructions from the Sand Pit (EK)
c) Elimination of lucrative AA status runs - inflicting collateral damage on all other OW partners
d) They just don't give a rats about FF that fly on other airlines
e) Front runner that will be quickly copied by other OW partners instigating similar changes to their schemes

Could I dislike all of the above ?

 

[OATEK]

Originally Posted by amaroo
a few possible explanations...

a) Phase two of their eventual departure of OW
b) Following instructions from the Sand Pit (EK)
c) Elimination of lucrative AA status runs - inflicting collateral damage on all other OW partners
d) They just don't give a rats about FF that fly on other airlines
e) Front runner that will be quickly copied by other OW partners instigating similar changes to their schemes

JohnM

<Snip>

Could I dislike all of the above ?

Not sure anyone could like them! But can't help but feel there is some truth in there.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

So any program that has no upgrade certs, count in miles, Min earn less then 1000, cap status bonus, reset status bonus each year, can not be considered a true frequent flyer program?? They must all be fake out there.

Not at all Pu. But it is a 'frequent flyer program'. Now it is a 'frequent spender program'

 

[BD1959]

Now Qantas is stating that Any Seat awards are not profitable. So people are going to take their points to another airline that does not offer earning on awards. Why not stay with Qantas? Classic awards not good enough?

Classic Awards are probably the least reason I choose my loyalty programme. They have been eroded to such an extent that they're hardly worth the effort of typing your CC number in to pay the adjoining fines.

Simply: I value Lounge Access, PB and Priority Screening over-and-above Points. Those 3 can only be achieved by either paying for J and achieving status.

My Corporate TA will only book the cheapest Y fare available on a particular flight. Typically, doing a MEL-SYD-MEL or MEL-ADL-MEL each week (with an occasional MEL-ADL-SYD-MEL thrown in), I would just scrape WP in a year.

QF have decided that flying with then consistently each week does not deserve WP. That's their prerogative, it's their scheme.

VA provide all of the above benefits with Gold (in fact I see little benefit in achieving WP with VA).

The one thing that really puzzles me in all this: if Status is such a burden for QF, why have they been handing out DSCs like candy for the past 12 months or so?

Regards,

BD

 

[Robert K]

The one thing that really puzzles me in all this: if Status is such a burden for QF, why have they been handing out DSCs like candy for the past 12 months or so?

Where was my invite!

 

[JohnK]

I don't understand why MASAs are considered a short-cut, when its really no different to buying a jetstar fare and paying for a plus bundle. Don't want status? Buy a cheap JQ ticket or a classic award. Want status? Pay extra for the plus bundle or pay the extra to turn your classic into a MASA.

You don't think these were abused? Did you post to the spreadsheet when you booked the Hobart Express? Did you do a trip report? Would you have bothered doing the Hobart Express on a Classic award?

I think short-cut is a perfect term for them.

 

[ketsuzei]

You don't think these were abused?

I think your definition of "abuse" is very very tenuous at very very best.