Heads up about program changes

[Buzzard]

Maybe we need a new thread "Successful Classic Bookings Made". Just checking the points plus pay for my bookings a few poss up, 48k + $1,674.91 each for the exact flights we booked or down to $1,162 return direct SYD - ADL at a similar time. Those points and SC's sure cost a lot.

At least the new thread will keep JessicaTam in a job

 

[pagingjoan]

Sorry

The SIMPLER tables, charts befuddled me

The "Like" button is not working for me, for some reason. But consider this a "Like".
I had to check and re-check the "simpler" tables before I posted.

 

[Buzzard]

So how many status credits do you lose today buzz? All that hard work to disappear shortly :-(

870.... not a lot compared to some

 

[JohnK]

But that is not 'abuse'. Qantas made such allowable and took points and $$ for the booking.

I have retracted my overuse of the word "abuse" and replaced it with "overuse".

 

[OATEK]

<Snip>

For my flying pattern over the past 12 months, SCs are exactly the same, but points are increased.

For me, I would be up 80 SC and 6,149 pts for last year with the new rates.

 

[harvyk]

A more nuanced question is whether or not people who would have paid Qantas's premium prices anyway took advantage of mASAs, thereby depriving Qantas of revenues that they would ordinarily have gained? (That doesn't make MASAs "unprofitable" by the way, just less profitable.)

Whilst I've never been rich enough to have my flights as paid J, if I ever was rich enough, I doubt I'd ever go through the hassle of getting a mASA, since whilst I'm certainly no expert on them when I have tried to use them I was very limited in my choice of flights, timings and even days for the better ones.

So the way I see it, is the points games are mainly there for those who want to have a bite at the pointy end cherry, but don't actually have the disposable funds available to do so on their own merits. As such the people who are most active in the points game do so almost out of necessity, since those who are rich enough to not play those games don't bother playing them...

Just thinking back to those people I know who had the disposable funds to simply drop $20K on a return ticket in their own right (so not via an employer or customer) usually collected the FF points, but didn't really do anything with them.

 

[Edge]

Consider the QF .br loophole that existed for a really long time, of which nothing was done about.

I discovered I could purchase flights MEL-LHR-MEL for myself and SWMBO for <$1,100 pp. I wasn't going to travel to Europe last year but decided to because of the very cheap price. QF9 on the way over was absolutely empty in Y, however QF10 on the way back was fairly full in Y.

What has the net return been for Qantas in this example? Surely as a business you'd still want the $2,200 of revenue?

I'd suggest much of the same scenario will happen following this xASA change.

 

[JohnM]

Whilst I've never been rich enough to have my flights as paid J, if I ever was rich enough, I doubt I'd ever go through the hassle of getting a mASA, since whilst I'm certainly no expert on them when I have tried to use them I was very limited in my choice of flights, timings and even days for the better ones.

I never used mASAs for status runs but I have been very lucky to get some at just the time I needed them either side of a planned overseas fixed-dates trip (eg. cruising the Galapagos). I was very pleased to burn my points that way, but the timing was pure good fortune. Mostly, I'm happy to burn my points on J-F INT and Y-J DOM UPGs.

Those doing status runs could just grab what was available and go without being tied to other plans. Can't blame them, but it wasn't something that I needed to do. So I'm sad to see them go, but not distraught.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

In their worst devaluations, Delta has at least maintained a core group of partner airlines, mainly ones with whom they have JVs or investments, where full points and status credit equivalents are earned.

Qantas has thrown them all under the bus, including their North American JV partner AA and South American JV partner LAN.

I guess my last remaining connection with QFF will be Lifetime Silver, until that is "simplified" and "enhanced"...

 

[SQ421]

Should I join people in their 'high-fiving' of how they have taken advantage of a flawed system?

No one is forcing you to; however to say people were "taking advantage of a flawed system" is judging them without cause.

What you construe as "taking advantage of a flawed system" is actually nothing more than playing by the rules. Rules that Qantas made. And is no different than guesting strangers into the lounge, or using Any Time Access (when it was available) to grab a a beer when at the airport but not flying. (Though reports of people stocking their bar at home this way may have been exaggerated!).


Just playing by the rules.

 

[JohnK]

Consider the QF .br loophole that existed for a really long time, of which nothing was done about.

I discovered I could purchase flights MEL-LHR-MEL for myself and SWMBO for <$1,100 pp. I wasn't going to travel to Europe last year but decided to because of the very cheap price. QF9 on the way over was absolutely empty in Y, however QF10 on the way back was fairly full in Y.

What has the net return been for Qantas in this example? Surely as a business you'd still want the $2,200 of revenue?

The problems with those sort of loopholes is everyone starts to book with that website and then everyone is paying <$1,100 return when they could be paying ~$2,000.

Surprising it took that long for Qantas to close that loophole considering that it was discussed on this website daily.

 

[SQ421]

The problems with those sort of loopholes is everyone starts to book with that website and then everyone is paying <$1,100 return when they could be paying ~$2,000.

Surprising it took that long for Qantas to close that loophole considering that it was discussed on this website daily.

Not entirely.

A great subset of those $1100 paying customers are probably those who'd fly only because it was at that price. While .br worked, Qantas got a few J flights out of me (albeit on EK metal) that would otherwise have gone to Cathay Pacific. Now that the .br avenue is closed, Qantas/Emirates is about 30% more for an inferior product; and my $$ go back to Cathay.

 

[harvyk]

This whole discussion reminds me of something which a business guru once told me.

He said every year, he'd take his most prized 20% of customers, aka the 20% who made up 80% of his sales, and would treat them to something really special. Conversely, he would take his bottom 20% of customers, aka the customers who brought in very little income, but took up 80% of his time, and he would dump them.

Now at first we questioned the wisdom of dumping customers who are still profitable, his response was "yes, but think of how much more profitable you'd be, if you're not wasting time with the bottom 20%". It was something which I started doing in my own business, and not only did it make me happier, it also allowed me time to go after the lucrative contracts, since I wasn't wasting time with the customers who spent 3 weeks deciding if they would part with $150.

Whilst we are jumping up and down, we are no doubt high maintenance for QF. We are the ones who whilst yes, we do use their product a lot, we are also the ones who look for loopholes in the system, we are the ones who will find the flights which we can get 100% for free, despite the fact that QF would have needed to still pay for expenses in relation to providing that flight. We are the ones which will tie up a phone operator in QF's call center for an hour looking for mASA's, or expect QF to spend extra time and dollars in developing the capability for mASA's to be booked online, despite only bringing in a marginal amount of money.

It's not that I advocate QF screwing us over, and it's not to say that I won't happily accept another completely free flight if I find a way for me to do so.

It's just I can also really easily understand how come QF would want to scrap things which are only marginally bringing in the bacon in favour of other things which would be a much higher profit.

 

[TheEmu]

Where was my invite!

Here:



Unless your boxes weren't ticked and were hiding under a rock during December...

 

[Robbi]

Consider the QF .br loophole that existed for a really long time, of which nothing was done about.

I discovered I could purchase flights MEL-LHR-MEL for myself and SWMBO for <$1,100 pp. I wasn't going to travel to Europe last year but decided to because of the very cheap price. QF9 on the way over was absolutely empty in Y, however QF10 on the way back was fairly full in Y.

What has the net return been for Qantas in this example? Surely as a business you'd still want the $2,200 of revenue?

I'd suggest much of the same scenario will happen following this xASA change.

Well clearly QF would have been making a profit if they are selling those fares in .br at that price.

Or is it only a profit in QFF's eyes if Brazilians pay that price and not Australians?

 

[SQ421]

Well clearly QF would have been making a profit if they are selling those fares in .br at that price.

Or is it only a profit in QFF's eyes if Brazilians pay that price and not Australians?

It was an unintended consequence of QF loading fares that did not have a POS restriction and Brazilian legislation that prevents carriers from charging a fuel surcharge. The point of sale restriction has since been removed and fares available in Brazil appropriately increased.

 

[Thunder Down Under]

With 1476 posts on this thread. Is anyone still flying?

TDU

 

[tuapekastar]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread so this comment will have most likely been made previously, but the toughening up on status is most likely a good thing for genuine frequent flyers. For years, almost all and sundry have been given status by gaming the system (not a bad past time, I agree) but frequent flyer perks are by definition, supposed benefits for frequent flyers rather than infrequent flyers. Infrequent flyers can receive similar perks but they have to pay for J or F. An airline wanting people to fly their metal when available is understandable IMHO.

I'm curious to hear what constitutes a 'genuine' frequent flyer versus a 'non-genuine' one.

 

[harvyk]

I'm curious to hear what constitutes a 'genuine' frequent flyer versus a 'non-genuine' one.

In my mind, a genuine frequent flyer is someone who has status and points because of BIS time. A 'non-genuine' one is someone who whilst is carrying a FF card, is someone who takes advantage of loopholes in the system to obtain points via non-flight purchases, bonuses and other tricks all whilst maintaining a fewer hours as possible in the air. As funny as it seems, there would be quite a few on AFF who I think would fit in under the 'non-genuine' category, whilst some NB's and PS's out in the real world might actually fit in under the 'genuine' category, but are not higher because they chose cheap tickets, fly direct and in some cases chose tickets which don't earn anything.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Whilst I've never been rich enough to have my flights as paid J, if I ever was rich enough, I doubt I'd ever go through the hassle of getting a mASA, since whilst I'm certainly no expert on them when I have tried to use them I was very limited in my choice of flights, timings and even days for the better ones.

So the way I see it, is the points games are mainly there for those who want to have a bite at the pointy end cherry, but don't actually have the disposable funds available to do so on their own merits. As such the people who are most active in the points game do so almost out of necessity, since those who are rich enough to not play those games don't bother playing them...

Just thinking back to those people I know who had the disposable funds to simply drop $20K on a return ticket in their own right (so not via an employer or customer) usually collected the FF points, but didn't really do anything with them.

I don't consider myself "rich" but have paid for J and F fares out of my own after tax money since 1989. we have done this by prioritising - kids came first and after that travel. Run one inexpensive car and don't really spend that much on other things (apart from books). I accept that we have been lucky enough to have had a decent income, but we certainly are not in any sort of big league. I have a number of friends who are much more affluent than I and they value their points as much as I do. I have been pretty much flying classic award domestic flights for the last 6 months - which allows me to save money to spend on overseas pointy end paid flights.