Hey Qantas, why is it that ....?

[medhead]

On a different topic, is there any other airline that upgrades staff before passengers. On a recent flight I asked for points upgrade in the lounge (from flexi) and was told no seats available. 50% of business seats were staff in uniform.

Yes. Qantas.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

On a different topic, is there any other airline that upgrades staff before passengers. On a recent flight I asked for points upgrade in the lounge (from flexi) and was told no seats available. 50% of business seats were staff in uniform.

depends on their arrangements with the airline... on duty, not on duty etc. personally - if it is part of the SOP of the airline to have staff on duty or just coming off duty to fly business class - I think it is fair enough.

 

[amaroo]

On a different topic, is there any other airline that upgrades staff before passengers. On a recent flight I asked for points upgrade in the lounge (from flexi) and was told no seats available. 50% of business seats were staff in uniform.

Might be an EBA requirement or simply something the airline does to thank staff....either way some unions still like to stick into QF whenever they can!

 

[Dinsy]

On a different topic, is there any other airline that upgrades staff before passengers. On a recent flight I asked for points upgrade in the lounge (from flexi) and was told no seats available. 50% of business seats were staff in uniform.

I've seen uniformed staff in J a handful of times on Air Canada flights.
One of which was 100% full, last flight of the night with a huge queue of standby passengers. I'm sure one or two of them would have coughed up for J just to get on the plane.

However, that said ... my Star Alliance status usually has me far enough down the plane that I can barely see who's sitting in J, let alone have enough points to even request an upgrade.

 

[jdp]

Why is it that you're "really cracking down on perks for platinums".

I don't get to buy my tickets, they're always the cheapest that Amex travel can arrange for us, company policy. I just enter from/to and departure time, then pick from the list of airlines. We have tens of thousands of employees and buy a lot of plane tickets, so they're usually negotiated rates not retail. Important to note that I only know how much the airfare costs after I've bought it, and I have no visibility into what restrictions there are on the ticket. I am aware of Qantas' rules on ticket types, but again I have no visibility on purchase into when those rules apply and no ability to alter it although an ability to choose the airline.

For a couple of years, until last week, I hadn't had any problems asking the CS team in the lounge if I can be on an earlier flight, and they'd look at my status and help me out. Makes me feel good for being a loyal Qantas customer, shows they care.

Last week I got the line "they're really cracking down on us flexing the rules for Platinums, but just this once". I was moving an hour earlier from peak to pre-peak, and there was a look of terror and exhilaration in the eyes at daring to help.

Today, same deal, I finish early and head for the airport hoping to see my family, same again moving to a quieter time of day. However this time the conversation at the Sydney business lounge after handing over my platinum card and asking nicely, starts out with a lecture about how I should read the terms and conditions when I buy the ticket, and it clearly states no changes. I explained to the guy who clearly thought this was my first flight the situation, and then inquired that I've had no issue for at least the last two years with any flights, and normally staff are very helpful (and less condescending). He sighed, then told me that apparently there has been a large crackdown on customer support teams providing any flexibility to platinum passengers when the ticket type normally wouldn't allow it, and in the past week they've started auditing individuals and threatening disciplinary action.

So, Qantas, why is it you've taken this particularly punitive action against your staff and your loyal customers? And who is the reason you fly again?

 

[Shelf]

Ugh - Flow forward, one of life's mysteries.

 

[medhead]

Why is it that you're "really cracking down on perks for platinums".

I don't get to buy my tickets, they're always the cheapest that Amex travel can arrange for us, company policy. I just enter from/to and departure time, then pick from the list of airlines. We have tens of thousands of employees and buy a lot of plane tickets, so they're usually negotiated rates not retail. Important to note that I only know how much the airfare costs after I've bought it, and I have no visibility into what restrictions there are on the ticket. I am aware of Qantas' rules on ticket types, but again I have no visibility on purchase into when those rules apply and no ability to alter it although an ability to choose the airline.

For a couple of years, until last week, I hadn't had any problems asking the CS team in the lounge if I can be on an earlier flight, and they'd look at my status and help me out. Makes me feel good for being a loyal Qantas customer, shows they care.

Last week I got the line "they're really cracking down on us flexing the rules for Platinums, but just this once". I was moving an hour earlier from peak to pre-peak, and there was a look of terror and exhilaration in the eyes at daring to help.

Today, same deal, I finish early and head for the airport hoping to see my family, same again moving to a quieter time of day. However this time the conversation at the Sydney business lounge after handing over my platinum card and asking nicely, starts out with a lecture about how I should read the terms and conditions when I buy the ticket, and it clearly states no changes. I explained to the guy who clearly thought this was my first flight the situation, and then inquired that I've had no issue for at least the last two years with any flights, and normally staff are very helpful (and less condescending). He sighed, then told me that apparently there has been a large crackdown on customer support teams providing any flexibility to platinum passengers when the ticket type normally wouldn't allow it, and in the past week they've started auditing individuals and threatening disciplinary action.

So, Qantas, why is it you've taken this particularly punitive action against your staff and your loyal customers? And who is the reason you fly again?

I had the chance of a detailed chat with customer care about precisely this point earlier this week. This arose because of the condescending attitude of the, wait for it, staff in the Sydney business lounge. Anyway advice for now was that they have made a change to remove previous flexibility. (With a bit of a throw away line that things may change in the future). When I compared qantas with virgin I was told qantas see themselves as not the same but as a premium airline.

I have difficulty buying that line given virgin are flexible for platinum (at the moment) and virgin do provide priority boarding. All for a lower price. My conversation with customer care didn't get around to the way they blocked off premium boarding for my flight last week.

Hopefully you don't get the same reception I received for daring to mention this incident. I'll be waiting to see who is the first to tell you "thems the rules."

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

On a different topic, is there any other airline that upgrades staff before passengers. On a recent flight I asked for points upgrade in the lounge (from flexi) and was told no seats available. 50% of business seats were staff in uniform.

Might have been PAXing back or to somewhere whilst on duty.
Their EBA requires business if on duty.
My son is with Qantas and staffing might have meant he flew a single sector and ended up in Singapore and for various reasons then PAXed back to AUS. He would come back in J in uniform "on duty" but maybe out of hours to fly etc or simply covering a particular gap in staffing levels

 

[Pushka]

When a company starts removing some of the services that made it special and preferred, in this case, flexibility, then it usually means it's being prepared for sale, or things are really bad.

Waiting for a terms and conditions lecture here too.

Memories of Ansett keep haunting me.

Or maybe no more Qantas brand but will be rebranded as Jetstar. Oops, wrong thread for this but somehow the two threads just morphed for me.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Can't quite understand why Qantas wouldn't allow high-status pax to stand-by for or take earlier flights. It lowers costs by having the pax out of the lounge earlier, and potentially increase revenue to have a full-fare last minute seat available for sale. The only time when it might be an issue in terms of costs is when the pax move from a "refreshment" flight to a full-meal flight, although I wouldn't know the difference in terms of costs of providing such catering.

If someone really needs to arrive somewhere at a set time, it's unlikely they'll buy a cheaper ticket at a later time and hope to get moved up. If someone isn't tight on schedule, they would just buy the cheaper ticket anyway, even if they have to wait a couple of hours in the lounge.

 

[codash1099]

Can't quite understand why Qantas wouldn't allow high-status pax to stand-by for or take earlier flights. It lowers costs by having the pax out of the lounge earlier, and potentially increase revenue to have a full-fare last minute seat available for sale. The only time when it might be an issue in terms of costs is when the pax move from a "refreshment" flight to a full-meal flight, although I wouldn't know the difference in terms of costs of providing such catering.

It's likely to be "catering not assured" in that case.

 

[Pushka]

Given the quality of catering that wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Buzzard]

Years ago Mrs B and I were asked if we wanted to be shifted to an earlier flight. We had no status back then, just QP members.

They were the days......

 

[eastwest101]

Why is it that you're "really cracking down on perks for platinums".

I don't get to buy my tickets, they're always the cheapest that Amex travel can arrange for us, company policy. I just enter from/to and departure time, then pick from the list of airlines. We have tens of thousands of employees and buy a lot of plane tickets, so they're usually negotiated rates not retail. Important to note that I only know how much the airfare costs after I've bought it, and I have no visibility into what restrictions there are on the ticket. I am aware of Qantas' rules on ticket types, but again I have no visibility on purchase into when those rules apply and no ability to alter it although an ability to choose the airline....

I may be wrong here but I think what you are describing may be more of a "cracking down" or tightening of the fare rules policy regardless of status, we think that when people hand over a WP card asking for a flight time change that QF staff disregard the fare rules (and who knows - maybe some do and some don't), but I suspect that they use a WP or SG card to simply locate your booking and then it may be a discretionary thing if flow forwarding is not in place. I am just guessing here - but maybe in the recent past QF staff have been instructed to honour the fare rules and t&c's and it may not have anything to do with status. I am not defending this position myself - in fact - many other posters have made good points about fare flexibility and all the decision making procceses that the customer and QF make when fly ahead requests are made. If these requests are denied - there are loyalty/customer experience/expectations consequences.

Just one other thing thats a bit OT - but after reading your description of how you have to buy tickets i.e. the corporate policy, that is a very strange way to buy products and services, almost akin to going to a car yard blindfolded, with earplugs where the prices are not displayed and the features of all the cars are hidden until you buy the car! You are just told you can have a red car or a blue car at a certain time and thats it... And sure there is a corporate discount but hiding the fare rules/flexibility/t&c's from the person requesting the travel is an obviously stupid and I would suggest that alone would end up costing the company more in rebooking/cancellation fees than what they save in the corporate discount.

For a couple of years, until last week, I hadn't had any problems asking the CS team in the lounge if I can be on an earlier flight, and they'd look at my status and help me out. Makes me feel good for being a loyal Qantas customer, shows they care.

Last week I got the line "they're really cracking down on us flexing the rules for Platinums, but just this once". I was moving an hour earlier from peak to pre-peak, and there was a look of terror and exhilaration in the eyes at daring to help.

Today, same deal, I finish early and head for the airport hoping to see my family, same again moving to a quieter time of day. However this time the conversation at the Sydney business lounge after handing over my platinum card and asking nicely, starts out with a lecture about how I should read the terms and conditions when I buy the ticket, and it clearly states no changes. I explained to the guy who clearly thought this was my first flight the situation, and then inquired that I've had no issue for at least the last two years with any flights, and normally staff are very helpful (and less condescending). He sighed, then told me that apparently there has been a large crackdown on customer support teams providing any flexibility to platinum passengers when the ticket type normally wouldn't allow it, and in the past week they've started auditing individuals and threatening disciplinary action.

So, Qantas, why is it you've taken this particularly punitive action against your staff and your loyal customers? And who is the reason you fly again?

Yes - its always amusing to see WPs and SGs get lectures from staff about fare rules and t&cs, it sort of begs the question of "Haven't you flown with us before? These are the fare rules....". You would expect the WP or SG's would be biting their tongue with a witty riptose if this does happen. The comments from the QF ground agent that staff are being audited and monitored are interesting, I don't see a lot of evidence of auditing and accountability with QF employees but I guess we just have to accept those comments and see what develops as far if QF are really "cracking down" or not.

Some people don't like the "thems the rules" lecture (in person or online), as some, but not all, of us know the rules, but also have seen various amounts of discretion/flexibility applied to fly ahead/change of flight requests. Although in jdp 's case - the "rules" are kept secret from them and he/she may be making genuine enquiries as to what the actual rules are. I have been in similar situations with corporate travel where a lot of effort seems to have gone into making the proccess and the rules of airfares as opaque as possible, rather than clear and transparent.

 

[medhead]

I may be wrong here but I think what you are describing may be more of a "cracking down" or tightening of the fare rules policy regardless of status,

This is being reported in relation to the domestic business lounge. The only people on non-flexible economy fares that use that lounge have Platinum status. Did you miss that bit?

Thems the rules lectures, while true, entirely miss the big picture. They show a distinct lack of imagination, especially when the person has already acknowledged the rules.

 

[markis10]

The only people on non-flexible economy fares that use that lounge have Platinum status. Did you miss that bit?

Guests don't have Platinum status!

 

[medhead]

Guests don't have Platinum status!

Umm, seriously this brilliant contribution has no bearing on my post. They are the guest of someone who does have platinum status. They are not in the lounge in their own right. That's why they are a guest. A platinum member is using the lounge including with a guest.

 

[maninblack]

Why is it that I flew over 30 international J sectors last year and you got zero of that business?

Why is it that I flew about the same number of domestic J sectors last year and you got 4?

Why is it that I used to look forward to flying Qantas and now I prefer not to?

Why do I care enough to even comment?

...to be continued....

 

[markis10]

Umm, seriously this brilliant contribution has no bearing on my post. They are the guest of someone who does have platinum status. They are not in the lounge in their own right. That's why they are a guest. A platinum member is using the lounge including with a guest.

It has every bearing on your wrong statement:

The only people on non-flexible economy fares that use that lounge have Platinum status. Did you miss that bit?

Note I said guest, not platinum guest, it's conceivable that a guest of a J customer is more than likely on a rededeal etc, did you miss that bit . To presume everyone in the lounge is Platinum is ludicrous.

 

[eastwest101]

This is being reported in relation to the domestic business lounge. The only people on non-flexible economy fares that use that lounge have Platinum status. Did you miss that bit?

Thems the rules lectures, while true, entirely miss the big picture. They show a distinct lack of imagination, especially when the person has already acknowledged the rules.

I have re-read jdp's post and yes I did miss the part about being in the business lounge, as you say, mostly only WP's on non-flex Y tix would be requesting flight changes in the J lounge. All that jdp is describing is a "thems the rules" lecture from a possibly poorly trained/ignorant/unmotivated/untruthful/bad hair day staff member, we can only speculate between these possibilities.

I noticed you spoke to customer care in post #447 medhead, was that on the phone or in person somewhere at the airport? But the other part of jdp's comments seem to align a bit with what you are reporting in post #447.

I totally agree that "thems the rules" or even "computer says no" stuff entirely misses the big picture. It may be that WP were actually exempt from the non flexible fare rules up until a few weeks ago in some cases, (i.e. a bit like an unpublished benefit?) but the removal of this has sort of got people finding out "the hard way", rather than the situation of a clearly signalled or telgraphed removal of a published benefit.

If you follow the "computer says no" or the "thems the rules" arguments to their logical conclusion - then you are at the place where you will consider/try flying the opposition - which is great and is a benefit of having competition. If you tell QF customer care that VA can do PB properly and QF can't. And as a VA Plat you can get non-flexible flights changed without penalty and now its possible that with QF you can't, then I think you have led the horse to water as best you can, but you cannot make the horse drink - so to speak.