How do you know if you're a dual citizen or not?

[Pushka]

Either he's renounced or he hasn't. If he has let's see the evidence.

Well yes. He assumes we trust politicians. We don't. Of any flavour.

 

[get me outta here]

And, AFAIK, none of them have produced any evidence of their status so far. Meanwhile, Bob Katter is happy.

Well yes. He assumes we trust politicians. We don't. Of any flavour.

 

[defurax]

Don't know why other Senators have a problem providing written proof of renouncing citizenship if indeed they have done so.

I think some countries would never or very reluctantly provide such documents. I think I read in the AFR that an MP spent 25K to successfully renounce his Iranian citizenship.
I think it would be more realistic to ask for written proofs that someone asked to be stripped of their citizenship than the actual decision from that country.
Also what happens to people who were born in Yugoslavia but left the country before it split, which Balkan countries do they need to contact to make sure they are not dual citizen...

 

[burmans]

Well yes. He assumes we trust politicians. We don't. Of any flavour.

I don't trust politicians on many accounts. However while I would indeed like the ability to force them to prove their statements I don't have any such right, this includes their assertions regarding citizenship as well as many of their other statements. To be frank, some of their other statements concern me a whole lot more than this whole citizenship question which is frankly making us a bit of a laughing stock.

Australia is a country of migrants, we need to get over this petty view of the world. Samuel Johnson said it a long, long time ago, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel".

 

[get me outta here]

It's the vibe.

I don't trust politicians on many accounts. However while I would indeed like the ability to force them to prove their statements I don't have any such right, this includes their assertions regarding citizenship as well as many of their other statements. To be frank, some of their other statements concern me a whole lot more than this whole citizenship question which is frankly making us a bit of a laughing stock.

Australia is a country of migrants, we need to get over this petty view of the world. Samuel Johnson said it a long, long time ago, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel".

 

[Pushka]

I don't trust politicians on many accounts. However while I would indeed like the ability to force them to prove their statements I don't have any such right, this includes their assertions regarding citizenship as well as many of their other statements. To be frank, some of their other statements concern me a whole lot more than this whole citizenship question which is frankly making us a bit of a laughing stock.

Australia is a country of migrants, we need to get over this petty view of the world. Samuel Johnson said it a long, long time ago, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel".

I agree in principle with the context of your post. This citizenship stuff esp involving those where they never applied for it, makes the constitution irrelevant and out of date. But it's become more of a political issue now; and proof of renouncing a former citizenship needs to be provided to 'someone independent' to verify and we haven't been told that's happened.

 

[RooFlyer]

And, AFAIK, none of them have produced any evidence of their status so far. Meanwhile, Bob Katter is happy.

Tony Abbott for one, did. See the post 138 a couple above yours

As for 'Pommy Bill':

OPPOSITION Leader Bill Shorten insists he is not a British citizen but is refusing to provide paperwork to confirm this, as the dual-citizenship saga continues.
Mr Shorten, whose father was born in England, said he will not be releasing the documents to confirm he has renounced British citizenship.

“I did renounce my citizenship many years ago,” Mr Shorten said at a press conference on Sunday.

“I have to say: I don’t feel any obligation to justify what I just said (not being a British citizen), because I know it to be true.”

Mr Shorten is believed to have renounced his citizenship in May 2006, ahead of the election on November 2007.

He is required to renounce British citizenship because people born ​between​ ​1948​ ​and​ ​​​January​ ​1, 1983​ ​to​ ​a​ ​father​ ​who​ ​was​ ​a​ ​British​ ​citizen​ ​by birth,​ ​are ​themselves​ ​a​ ​citizen ​​unless ​they​ ​renounce.

I suspect Shorten has the proof but wants someone on the other side to make some claim and then he'll release his document. But if not, remember what I said to TheRealTMA up-thread about laughing too soon?

 

[TheRealTMA]

The Queen was born in Britain to parents born in Britain - no doubting her citizenship! But as you say, the Queen does not issue a passport to herself, and I guess she is well recognised at the border.

Nor does she have a drivers licence.

Interestingly, apparently she is a citizen of every country where she is head of state, so she is entitled to vote in Australian elections. Why don't we fine her for not voting!!

 

[TheRealTMA]

Tony Abbott for one, did. See the post 138 a couple above yours

As for 'Pommy Bill':



I suspect Shorten has the proof but wants someone on the other side to make some claim and then he'll release his document. But if not, remember what I said to TheRealTMA up-thread about laughing too soon?

Don't 'upthread me' you tri citizen, Bro!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There is doubt based on the very concept of citizenship.

Too obscure for me.

In essence the Queen, as Sovereign, is the embodiment of the state itself. She is 'the state'. She cannot be a citizen of herself, or pledge allegiance to herself. All other UK nationals are citizens of the state, which is 'the Sovereign'. Other royals are citizens (subjects) of the monarch. Charles will cease to be a 'citizen/subject' when he becomes King.

In reference to a later post, I don't know if the Queen is technically a citizen of all those states of which she is monarch. That might be unworkable. Whether or not she could vote (separate from being a citizen) is another matter. Although for practical purposes she is above politics and so would never exercise that right.

 

[TheRealTMA]

In essence the Queen, as Sovereign, is the embodiment of the state itself. She is 'the state'. She cannot be a citizen of herself, or pledge allegiance to herself. All other UK nationals are citizens of the state, which is 'the Sovereign'. Other royals are citizens (subjects) of the monarch. Charles will cease to be a 'citizen/subject' when he becomes King.

In reference to a later post, I don't know if the Queen is technically a citizen of all those states of which she is monarch. That might be unworkable. Whether or not she could vote (separate from being a citizen) is another matter. Although for practical purposes she is above politics and so would never exercise that right.

She is a citizen but not a subject.

 

[Quickstatus]

No, best that our pollies have undivided loyalties.

Pollies and undivided loyalties?. Thats an oxymoron if ever there was one!!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

She is a citizen but not a subject.

For interest's sake, have you got a link to this? I can't see how she is an Aussie citizen?

 

[TheRealTMA]

For interest's sake, have you got a link to this? I can't see how she is an Aussie citizen?

GIYF. Indicates she is a by definition a citizen of every country of which she is monarch or head of state.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

GIYF. Indicates she is a by definition a citizen of every country of which she is monarch or head of state.

That's why I asked for your source. She may be a national, but I'm not sure that then transfers into the definition of citizen... which applies to everyone except the monarch.

 

[TheRealTMA]

That's why I asked for your source. She may be a national, but I'm not sure that then transfers into the definition of citizen... which applies to everyone except the monarch.

Don't confuse citizen with subject.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Don't confuse citizen with subject.

I'm not. The definition of 'citizen' is:

a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized.

But I'm not sure that extends, legally, to the Queen (and no reason for dictionaries to print a single exception for a monarch). If she is not a citizen of the UK, why would Australia or Canada or any of her other realms be different?

 

[TheRealTMA]

I'm not. The definition of 'citizen' is:



But I'm not sure that extends, legally, to the Queen (and no reason for dictionaries to print a single exception for a monarch). If she is not a citizen of the UK, why would Australia or Canada or any of her other realms be different?

Yes, so your definition explains it all. Just like Baaarnaby being ineligible for election because he as a New Zealand national, slam dunk, despite the biased opinions of our brilliant AG and PM.

 

[BacchusMarsh]

​I just asked the Queen and she said she's a "national" of the UK but a "citizen" of the EU.

 

[TheRealTMA]

​I just asked the Queen and she said she's a "national" of the UK but a "citizen" of the EU.

Of course,