How should AFF receive new poster "rants"......

[samh004]

Dear me.....this thread has morphed into a thread about a thread

Sadly this seems to have morphed into a discussion about a particular post

Morphed? It always was a way of justifying the behaviours in the other thread.

I think it was always about a particular thread tbh.

Exactly.

 

[Pushka]

Pushka, NO! I did not mean it to be about that thread - it is just that thread is an excellent example.

A concern has been expressed that AFF as a community is not inviting to newbies, and that when someone's first (rant) post has details questioned, that this scares off potential new members.

I think AFF is a site where anyone who actually asks a question is absolutely showered with advice, tips, guidance, etc. People fall over themselves to help others, especially newbies.

But for those who's first contribution to the community is to post a rant thread, I do not believe that being a newbie means we all have to cheer and share in the rant.

(and without getting dragged back to the Virgin thread, please let me be clear that I am not suggesting the OP there was a "one rant wonder" - he followed up posts and didn't disappear - good on him!)

All together now.....1.....2......3......

If Juddles has raised this issue with the intent he has now posted then it’s an excellent issue and something we need to think about.

I agree that one/first post rants are off putting but that didn’t come across in relation to that thread. Surely someone can be so upset they google, find AFF and then post and in that thread, OP asked very relevant questions of this forum.

We have to value every first post on its merit and not judge a first time poster simply because their first post is about an issue they have.

 

[Einherjar]

Ah, rants, they always provide a fair bit of entertainment. Sometimes for the rant itself, but as often as not for the responses.

One thing that I’ve noticed is pretty common though, is that the initial post often leaves out a few facts. And a few regulars on here are pretty good at sniffing them out. Once the entire story is revealed...the OP disappears.

So, if you have a rant to post, by all means do so, but don’t edit it. Facts will speak for themselves, one way or another.

Reminds me of the other thread "Banned from QF (for a few months)" ... starts off with "slightly unrelated topic" then out comes the VCAT links and media articles related to the story.

 

[drron]

My antenna was working correctly the day that thread appeared.read the first 6 or so posts and decided it wasn't going to end well so forgot it.Only surprised it kept coming up in the new posts.

 

[RooFlyer]

My antenna was working correctly the day that thread appeared.read the first 6 or so posts and decided it wasn't going to end well so forgot it.Only surprised it kept coming up in the new posts.

Relevant thing is why you thought it would end badly at that early stage. What aspects were thus predicable?

 

[drron]

The price of the upgrade as stated by the OP.

 

[juddles]

Kid Gloves!

If you disagree with a post by any member (old or new), there is nothing wrong with politely posting that disagreement.

In doing so, make it clear you do not agree with the post. Do not disparage the member, nor continue to rehash the same point.

For some it seems all two hard in a 140 character world.

It is the "politely posting that disagreement" which is the big issue (apparently) with newbie rants. I believe that anyone should be able to question a poster (if done in the correct form you specify), but what I am seeing now in AFF is that such questioning, no matter how gentle, is being claimed to be "attacks", and thus "scaring off new members".

 

[RooFlyer]

but what I am seeing now in AFF is that such questioning, no matter how gentle, is being claimed to be "attacks", and thus "scaring off new members".

There is nothing 'gentle' about repeatedly calling a newbie, or anyone, a 'liar', juddles. If that's the language you are going to employ, perhaps you shouldn't be shocked if the replies are equally robust? ( I didn't think that they were, but I guess you do.)

I think the word most used by myself and like posters on this thread in respect of newbies has been 'respect'.

 

[burmans]

It is the "politely posting that disagreement" which is the big issue (apparently) with newbie rants. I believe that anyone should be able to question a poster (if done in the correct form you specify), but what I am seeing now in AFF is that such questioning, no matter how gentle, is being claimed to be "attacks", and thus "scaring off new members".

Let's not delude ourself, accusations that make or imply that someone has lied are not polite.

 

[juddles]

There is nothing 'gentle' about repeatedly calling a newbie, or anyone, a 'liar', juddles. If that's the language you are going to employ, perhaps you shouldn't be shocked if the replies are equally robust? ( I didn't think that they were, but I guess you do).

And the hyperbole employed in the above post and others in a similar vein really doesn't help progress the discussion, IMHO.

I think the word most used by myself and like posters on this thread in respect of newbies has been 'respect'.

Rooflyer, I firmly believe (and have expressed) that the OP in that thread told a fib. But that is an aside - I joined that thread way after AFF members such as yourself expressed derision (?) of a couple of other posters who had VERY gently, and in calm decent tones, just asked about certain information.

I am not a petal, and if I challenge someone I expect nothing less than pushback or equally robust reply - again, that is NOT the issue. My "issue" is that it appears that AFF is becoming a place where freedom of expression, etc is only one way - ie that if you do not attack airlines, or agree with rants, you get attacked yourself.

I didn't want to confuse this thread with the Virgin one, but as I said that is a great example of what I am getting at. Some posters smelled some flaws in the OP's story, and asked very nicely for more info. And you and others made them the villains, where there was no need for villains to be invented. I have re-read the thread several times, and I still cannot find ANYONE supporting Virgin!!

 

[Natalie Z]

Hnm..I think that's a tough one. How frequently would you say it's happening?

I remember a few months ago when I asked a simple question about the opening times at a QC, a member rudely questioned my source of information and kind-of guilted me for not having looked at the right website. I thought that he/she could have been a little more polite.

I'm still quite new here, but find most people on here to be really welcoming and lovely. I think that there's possibly a few members who approach things a little....differently. I mean, unless someone says something pretty ridiculous, I think it's best to not bark down their throat.

 

[RooFlyer]

Rooflyer, I firmly believe (and have expressed) that the OP in that thread told a fib.

I think 'lie' was the term you used - several times in the post I quoted.

You seem to have missed the point of my posts in the Virgin thread and indeed this, your own thread. It's about how we treat newcomers to the forum. Not about you and I. You've said a couple of times that I 'hate' Airlines; I've let that pass as it's irrelevant to the argument.

Newcomers aren't the only ones who post hyperbole and even untruths on AFF. But I think it's just distasteful and bullying for old hands to get stuck into the newcomer because they unknowingly breachsome designated 'rule' or 'standard' that some here demand.

Let me repeat what I said in my first response to your thread question here. Treat newcomers' rants with sympathy and respect. ( by the look of it, a fair few people 'agreed' with me on that one.)

You asked the question. That's my answer, in brief. But by all means take a different course.

 

[opusman]

Why is asking someone politely for more information deemed to be an attack on them? That's the fundamental question.

 

[pauly7]

I personally prefer the AFF threads that stick more to FF opportunities, learnings and airline / FF actual news. Wish there was more of it and less of these types of threads (Yes I understand the irony of contributing to such a thread sadly...)

Member experiences (new or old, good or bad) I personally don’t value as much usually as they come with a healthy dose of bias or agenda and that’s not restricted to ‘new member rants’, a lot of our ‘old members’ are pretty good at shrieking themselves....

This thread might be better suited in the playground....?

 

[Deleted member]

Let's not delude ourself, accusations that make or imply that someone has lied are not polite.

If someone makes cough up, it’s ok to call it a lie. If someone embellishes the story but stays largely factual.... well it’s a grey area.

 

[Deleted member]

Why is asking someone politely for more information deemed to be an attack on them? That's the fundamental question.

It’s part of the “new” sensationalist narrative so prevalent in reporting today. Seemingly innocuous comments or statements get upgraded to “vile” or “offensive “ I think it’s part of the “click bait” phenomenon. In a society where being offended is now so commonplace I do wonder where we will end up !

 

[Pushka]

It’s part of the “new” sensationalist narrative so prevalent in reporting today. Seemingly innocuous comments or statements get upgraded to “vile” or “offensive “ I think it’s part of the “click bait” phenomenon. In a society where being offended is now so commonplace I do wonder where we will end up !

OT but this is an interesting post. I think that maybe the tide is turning on that for precisely the reasons you state. I really hope so.

 

[tgh]

I joined aff a little while back ,and recall that occasional early visits did not encourage me to continue.
Travelling more later in life ,I have been more active and have found the community pleasant and helpful .
I have also made an effort to "fit in" and live by the site rules.
As an experienced communicator I may sometimes use oblique language and references in pursuit of discussion.
This site does not suit argument for the sake thereof , there is tight moderation and other volunteers (looking at you rooflyer) who
pursue perceived flimflam with alacrity.
I guess a lot of folks read the site; some may choose to participate in the daily "noise" , and others seek coal face exposure to frequent flying.
Viva le difference.. it's a site for everyone.
We could increase the daily "noise" ( which yields so much colour) by seeking to engage tentative posters.
It's really up to the active posters to attempt this engagement or be satisfied with the status quo.

 

[straitman]

Why is asking someone politely for more information deemed to be an attack on them? That's the fundamental question.

It would be fine if that's all it was but things went way beyond polite requests for more information. In fact one deleted post was quite offensive.

 

[Pushka]

It would be fine if that's all it was but things went way beyond polite requests for more information. In fact one deleted post was quite offensive.

I did not know that one post was deleted. So ‘polite’ requests for info took a holiday then. Changes things a tad for some then I’d hope.