How should AFF receive new poster "rants"......

[RooFlyer]

Yes ... One could be wicked and suggest something dark about 'missing information' in respect to the 'information requests' bit of the discussion, but that may be unkind.

 

[davidj]

I did not know that one post was deleted. So ‘polite’ requests for info took a holiday then.

Make you wonder why all the attacks? Ulterior motive?

Surely people have something better to do?

 

[oz_mark]

If someone makes cough up, it’s ok to call it a lie. If someone embellishes the story but stays largely factual.... well it’s a grey area.

To me the issue is not so much about making embellishing stuff. As with many media reports, and social media, it's the missing stuff that is important. Being economical with the truth. We often get the final outcomes, but none of the context of what led there.

 

[JohnK]

Why is asking someone politely for more information deemed to be an attack on them? That's the fundamental question.

Polite is not how I would describe it.

By the way this is not an isolated incident.

 

[Pushka]

Polite is not how I would describe it.

By the way this is not an isolated incident.

I’m guessing a few missed the redacted post so it’s made it a bit difficult for some.

 

[kookaburra75]

I think there are two, intertwined issues at play which I think contribute to what Juddles is musing about.
The first is the way some Communities react to new comers - in the physical and virtual worlds. I know living in small towns over the years, they can be quite scary and unforgiving of new people who are judged as they don't follow the unwritten rules. I seen dust-ups over lamington judging that would make your hair curl.
The second is the way people behave from behind a keyboard, as compared to how they behave if they dealing with the person face to face. A lot of my work is getting people to communicate, and when I read back an email they've sent to someone else, and asked whether they would have said that to them if they were sitting next to them, the answer is almost 'no' every time.
Neither of these are either right or wrong, they just are. I agree with Juddles though, that sometimes we can be confronting and come across as un-caring of what the person is saying. But we can always chose to flick past posts that we don't like/agree with, and leave the posters stewing in their own juices.

 

[juddles]

..... I think it's just distasteful and bullying for old hands to get stuck into the newcomer because they unknowingly breachsome designated 'rule' or 'standard' that some here demand......

Not sure I understand that one??

Why do members read a post of a disgruntled new OP - I think it is for one of (or both of ) two reasons: to attempt to understand and assist the poster with advice, or to learn from the OP's experience. For both of these, it is necessary to understand exactly what happened.

I know that a newbie OP will not immediately think of all the info that is needed - everything from class of travel to airline, etc etc etc. And this will need questions to be asked. Likewise, when there is a major element of the OP's story that simply doesn't make sense, then it is natural that people reading the thread will want to know more, to try to understand it.

In your above post you refer to a newcomer "unknowingly breaching" a "designated 'rule' or 'standard'". That is not relevant or accurate in many of the newbie rants - the only "rule" or "standard" that they breach is the truth!

In that dang Virgin thread, the OP made the extraordinary claim that Virgin had (1) admitted they overcharged him, and (2) told him to get stuffed anyway. He submitted an email from Virgin to support this amazing claim. But he redacted the part that actually said completely the contrary. Hello? That is not some inadvertent breach of AFF customs - it is an untruth (or lie, or fib, or whatever else). You and many others chastised the few members who stood up and questioned the OP's "story".

So although some speak of new members possibly being scared off by a "hostile" reception (that being the demand for truth), it seems it is ok by you and so many others to be hostile to established members who just want the site kept slightly honest, and not just a place for anyone to vent whatever story they have in their head, unquestioned?

 

[Pushka]

Not sure I understand that one??

Why do members read a post of a disgruntled new OP - I think it is for one of (or both of ) two reasons: to attempt to understand and assist the poster with advice, or to learn from the OP's experience. For both of these, it is necessary to understand exactly what happened.

I know that a newbie OP will not immediately think of all the info that is needed - everything from class of travel to airline, etc etc etc. And this will need questions to be asked. Likewise, when there is a major element of the OP's story that simply doesn't make sense, then it is natural that people reading the thread will want to know more, to try to understand it.

In your above post you refer to a newcomer "unknowingly breaching" a "designated 'rule' or 'standard'". That is not relevant or accurate in many of the newbie rants - the only "rule" or "standard" that they breach is the truth!

In that dang Virgin thread, the OP made the extraordinary claim that Virgin had (1) admitted they overcharged him, and (2) told him to get stuffed anyway. He submitted an email from Virgin to support this amazing claim. But he redacted the part that actually said completely the contrary. Hello? That is not some inadvertent breach of AFF customs - it is an untruth (or lie, or fib, or whatever else). You and many others chastised the few members who stood up and questioned the OP's "story".

So although some speak of new members possibly being scared off by a "hostile" reception (that being the demand for truth), it seems it is ok by you and so many others to be hostile to established members who just want the site kept slightly honest, and not just a place for anyone to vent whatever story they have in their head, unquestioned?

That dang thread is relevant here. Virgin checked their systems and said the charges were correct when they were not. So it’s ok for them to make a mistake in their own business but not a rookie who erred only in saying that Virgin had said the charges were incorrect.

In the end Virgin were wrong - do you likewise call that a lie?

 

[juddles]

That dang thread is relevant here. Virgin checked their systems and said the charges were correct when they were not. So it’s ok for them to make a mistake in their own business but not a rookie who erred only in saying that Virgin had said the charges were incorrect.

In the end Virgin were wrong - do you likewise call that a lie?

Pushka, let me clear something up very quickly - I do not like Virgin, never have, and it seems clear to me that in the OP's case, they charged his credit card thousands of dollars incorrectly!! It was a very bad error on the airlines part, it is extremely bad that they can have such errors, especially since many victims of such errors (as was the poster in this case) have FF accounts with Virgin and are thus impeded from challenging the company.

No it is NOT ok! At least it is not OK by me. I would hope that if the error was as per the OP's description, then not only would he get the dollars returned, but also a decent "something" in the form of compensation for his angst and wasted time. I trust Virgin even less than QF.

 

[juddles]

But the matter of the poster fibbing is a separate one.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Well, I've not read all the replies, but the OP asked for "opinions" so here are some of my thoughts ...

When I joined AFF, I read for years as a lurker, in the belief I was not a frequent flyer and had no right to comment. I leaned a great deal from the various contributors to AFF and after a while, decided that even though I personally did not regard myself as a frequent flyer, I might have a few anecdotes to contribute to the greater knowledge base (and I do recall one that took all respondents by surprise).

I'm not entirely sure whether AFF is actually a frequent flyer forum, or just a flyers forum?

Obviously, some not-so-frequent flyers expect the world on their first trip ... but don't we all at some point? We'd all like our expectations to be fulfilled plus a bit, but the reality is they are often not! Is that a crime of the airline or just over exuberance of the pax? I guess it doesn't hurt to hear the grievance, but somewhat tiresome to hear an unsubstantiated whine.

Tolerance is the key. Offer advice to what you think are genuine gripes, ignore those that seem frivolous. I do know of a long standing thread that I chastised in its infancy as being frivolous, but many, many months (if not years) later, that thread is still going ... even though I don't subscribe to it. That indicates it is important to quite a number of people, so I was obviously too hasty in my condemnation. Deep breath and, gin and tonic ... or a Four pillars bloody Shiraz gin with a single ice cube x many!

 

[burmans]

Why is asking someone politely for more information deemed to be an attack on them? That's the fundamental question.

Politely asking for information is not an attack but again calling someone a liar is not polite. Whitewashing peoples behaviour is just an insult to the AFF members intelligence!

 

[juddles]

. Whitewashing peoples behaviour is just an insult to the AFF members intelligence!

I understand from this you are referring to the OP's fibs?

 

[burmans]

I understand from this you are referring to the OP's fibs?

No I'm referring to your suggestion that posters on this forum were polite.

 

[davidj]

Politely asking for information is not an attack but again calling someone a liar is not polite.

Agreed.

If you're going to call someone out for being a liar, you better be sure. Not a good look.

 

[VPS]

Well, I've not read all the replies, but the OP asked for "opinions" so here are some of my thoughts ...

When I joined AFF, I read for years as a lurker, in the belief I was not a frequent flyer and had no right to comment. I leaned a great deal from the various contributors to AFF and after a while, decided that even though I personally did not regard myself as a frequent flyer, I might have a few anecdotes to contribute to the greater knowledge base (and I do recall one that took all respondents by surprise).

I'm not entirely sure whether AFF is actually a frequent flyer forum, or just a flyers forum?

Obviously, some not-so-frequent flyers expect the world on their first trip ... but don't we all at some point? We'd all like our expectations to be fulfilled plus a bit, but the reality is they are often not! Is that a crime of the airline or just over exuberance of the pax? I guess it doesn't hurt to hear the grievance, but somewhat tiresome to hear an unsubstantiated whine.

Tolerance is the key. Offer advice to what you think are genuine gripes, ignore those that seem frivolous. I do know of a long standing thread that I chastised in its infancy as being frivolous, but many, many months (if not years) later, that thread is still going ... even though I don't subscribe to it. That indicates it is important to quite a number of people, so I was obviously too hasty in my condemnation. Deep breath and, gin and tonic ... or a Four pillars bloody Shiraz gin with a single ice cube x many!

I was thinking what a sensible post and then you add Gin and in particular FPBSG with a single ice cube and I’m struggling to find a superlative now. You’re obviously a very smart and sensible man and I may now pour myself and FPBSG and sip slowly and then repeat.

 

[juddles]

No I'm referring to your suggestion that posters on this forum were polite.

Someone said a post was deleted by mods - I never saw that post. But the rest were very mild and polite. Can you point me to the attacking posts?

 

[juddles]

Hi all,
am not really sure how to frame this, but due to a recent thread, I was left wondering about a few issues.
Essentially, this is about how the general AFF community should respond to first-time posters "with a grudge".

IE someone new appears and posts what is usually known as a "rant" - airline "X" did YZ to them, etc. This is a common thing, and usually said new posters disappear within a few days - for whatever reasons.

I understand that many negative things affect travellers, and when fighting a huge company, the chance to let loose here is attractive.

But in this recent thread it was claimed that AFF as a whole is not welcoming to new people (a claim I totally reject).

There are many sides to this. My personal position is that each and every thread should stand on its own merits. But it appears many think that a new poster should not be questioned. As that may scare them away from AFF?

I may be wrong, but in all the myriad threads I have seen, there is no barrier to new members. The only barrier ever raised seems to be common sense.

If a new member just wants airtime to bag whatever airline , etc, and to not scare him off we must simply agree with whatever they post, this seems garbage to me. Waste of time all round.

Opinions?

BTW, any comments or opinions from admin regarding this issue? What is the feeling from the hosts of the forum?

 

[Pushka]

Someone said a post was deleted by mods - I never saw that post. But the rest were very mild and polite. Can you point me to the attacking posts?

I’d agree that the requests for further info were polite but like you I didn’t see the deleted post. However the discussion continued on about the OP not posting that para as he had not reported that correctly, even after Virgin changed their position and refunded (exonerated?) him.

 

[JohnK]

I’m guessing a few missed the redacted post so it’s made it a bit difficult for some.

I also missed that post but the tone of some of the posts was not polite but actually rude.

My take on some posts was "You're new here. You're a liar. Virgin has done nothing wrong!", when it was quite clear there was a glitch involved and Virgin tried to deny the glitch and they did not overcharge.

It's one thing to state an opinion but it's another when you try to rub it in.