I choose not to fly via Dubai. OK, but why ???

[SeatBackForward]

I heard the religious police were being trained to identify Jews by their supposed 'physical characteristics'

By religious police, I assume you are referring to Saudi Arabia?

Dubai is not Saudi Arabia, perhaps confusion based on their "physical characteristics" ?

 

[Jack_OC]

10 years for "graft", no doubt influenced by who he was "grafting". And a woman who was gang raped got 12 months, the same as her attackers. Proportionate?

IMO, any country that allows an abuse of human rights such as the jailing of a rape victim and only detaining the perpetrators for 12 months shouldn't be allowed to operate an international airport and should be subject to heavy trade sanctions by the UN and liberal countries like Australia.

It seems to have escaped everyone's notice that the alleged perpetrators were not actually convicted of rape. For whatever reason, the verdict was that there was no rape, but rather consensual group sex. As extra-marital sex is illegal there (and I assume group sex is particularly frowned upon) all people involved were convicted and received similar sentences. By all means criticise the court for coming to the wrong conclusion, if you believe you know enough about what happened to make that judgement, but it's not true to say the UAE only detains rapists for 12 months or that they imprison women on the grounds that they were raped. In fact, they have the death penalty for rape, so if anything the UAE could criticse Australia for being far too lenient on convicted rapists, rather than the other way around.

(Before anyone asks, yes I do think it's outrageous to jail people for extra marital sex, but that's a slightly different issue!)

On a more general note, I think there are two types of concern being expressed here:

1. Concern that overly restrictive and/or discriminatory lawslaws might impact us personally if we visit
2. An objection in principal to visiting a country with overly restrictive and/or discriminatory laws.

When it comes to transiting or a brief stay somewhere, my assessment is really just based on point 1, as if it was based on point 2, I'd basically never go anywhere. I'm of the opinion that most tourists have a very low risk of falling foul of these laws, in pretty much any of the standard potential transit ports, hence this isn't really an issue for me.

I can totally understand and respect those who refuse to travel somewhere based on point 2, but what has confused me here, is that some people seem to be assessing other options against point 1 only, but DXB against point 2.

 

[Arnie]

Have you not read any of the previous posts?

Jews are allowed into the UAE. Muslims from Israel are not.

Now i'm confused - so jews from israel are allowed in?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Now i'm confused - so jews from israel are allowed in?

Ok yes, you are right, Jews from Israel are not allowed in. But that is because they are from Israel, not because of their religion.

 

[timster]

Indeed, it would have been slightly embarassing for Emirates to not let the CEO of Qantas, an airline they've just signed up a partnership with, into Dubai on the basis of him being gay.

Geez, so they are hypocrits in Dubai as well ?

 

[JohnK]

Because people have cited anti gay laws as a reason not to go and then said they would go via SIN where the laws are the same.

That is but one of the many reasons.

To me Singapore is a friendlier place and I am able to get away with more

- I can drink beer on the street (yes I know I shouldn't but I want to be able to do it whenever I want to do it)
- I can book a hotel room and bring a stranger in for the night without fear and not a word is said
- Difficult to offend someone unless you start swearing, bad mouthing and being very rude

But let's not stop at SIN. In my opinion BKK and HKG are also better transits to Europe.

And in saying all of that I should transit Dubai at least once and that way I can say I have been and do not want to go back....

 

[browski]

I don't think there should be an argument.Everyone has their subjective opinions and reasons for or against wanting to travel through Dubai. That doesn't make people right or wrong - but it is interesting to see both the objections / concerns and the DBX fanbois

Actually it does make them wrong. You are confusing opinion with fact. People can state that "I think SIN is better than DXB". That is their opinion.They cannot however trot out the absurd, ludicrous and blatant lies and then try to pass them off as fact. The uneducated are getting called out on these issues and it is heartening to see one after another of the ignorant being called out.

Here's a few facts.

1. It's DXB, not DBX
2. Anti-semitic is neither anti-Jewish, nor is it anti-Israeli. So for example, a Palestinian is a Semite, so if you are pro-Palestinian, you obviously cannot be an anti-semite. Some Israeli people are semites, but there are more semites in Palestine, Ethiopia, Lebanon and Egypt than there are in Israel. It has been common for some years now for people to equate anti jewish with meaning anti semite. It was and is a mistake to do so.
3. Jews in Iran are allowed to travel to DXB; Arab-Israelis are not.
4. The UAE has plenty of oil........but nearly all of it is in Abu Dhabi. Dubai has a bit left, but nothing to get excited about.
5. In Dubai you will see men holding hands in public .............. everywhere.

And here is what an opinion looks like:Unless you have actually been to Dubai, you are really in no position to make comment on any of the issues in this thread.... so my opinion is.......if this means you then you should xx_X.

 

[dfcatch]

Actually it does make them wrong. You are confusing opinion with fact.
People can state that "I think SIN is better than DXB". That is their opinion.
They cannot however trot out the absurd, ludicrous and blatant lies and then try to pass them off as fact. The uneducated are getting called out on these issues and it is heartening to see one after another of the ignorant being called out.

Here's a few facts.

1. It's DXB, not DBX
2. Anti-semitic is neither anti-Jewish, nor is it anti-Israeli. So for example, a Palestinian is a Semite, so if you are pro-Palestinian, you obviously cannot be an anti-semite. Some Israeli people are semites, but there are more semites in Palestine, Ethiopia, Lebanon and Egypt than there are in Israel. It has been common for some years now for people to equate anti jewish with meaning anti semite. It was and is a mistake to do so.
3. Jews in Iran are allowed to travel to DXB; Arab-Israelis are not.
4. The UAE has plenty of oil........but nearly all of it is in Abu Dhabi. Dubai has a bit left, but nothing to get excited about.
5. In Dubai you will see men holding hands in public .............. everywhere.

And here is what an opinion looks like:
Unless you have actually been to Dubai, you are really in no position to make comment on any of the issues in this thread.... so my opinion is.......if this means you then you should xx_X.

Actually - IMHO you should xx_X

The thread is asking for people to say "why" they choose not to fly via DXB.

Their reasons are theirs. You can disagree with the basis quoted - but they are entitled to that view - which is precisely on-topic with the question asked.

I find it curious that people like you attack others for supposedly being intolerant of others (presumably being racist for having concerns about the UAE - whether being female, Jewish, gay or what not), yet you yourself are so intolerant of others opinions.

It is attitudes like yours that really bring down AFF.

You should seriously consider relocating yourself exclusively to FT.

AFF is meant to be a more friendly tolerant place where folks can engage without being attacked personally simply for expressing their on-topic views in accordance with the question asked in post 1.

It's disappointing - because of all the people I would have thought you would have had a positive contribution to make to this thread - but you simply can't help yourself attacking others for having a different view to yourself.

 

[whatmeworry]

Was there any reason QF preferred SIN previously as a transit point to Europe for example over BKK and HKG.

Personally I don't have problems transiting via DXB but lets be honest, DXB is not really an appealing destination for me personally. OK its sunny there and has luxury hotels, but I can easily do that in BKK and not worry about some of the archaic laws there in DXB. Lots of interesting articles of Aussies having legal problems over there.
$25m fine 'means life' in foreign jail

 

[dajop]

Because people have cited anti gay laws as a reason not to go and then said they would go via SIN where the laws are the same.

But enforcement is vastly different. To the point you have an open and active gay scene in Singapore, that the government tolerates and probably even tacitly encourages, yet in Dubai it is all underground. In Singapore there have even been court challenges to the laws (that admittedly don't have much hope), and I just can't see an openly gay UAE resident couple challenging the laws in a Dubai court.

Having said that, it doesn't mean I would boycott Dubai for that reason, any more than I would boycott Singapore (I have visited the former, and live in the latter). There are probably areas of some countries where gay is totally legal that I would have more fear for my personal safety, and may avoid though. And then there's places like Saudi Arabia and Iran which are totally different kettle of fish to either UAE or Singapore, and enforcement to the extreme.

 

[Flying mermaid]

, but it's not true to say the UAE only detains rapists for 12 months or that they imprison women on the grounds that they were raped. In fact, they have the death penalty for rape, so if anything the UAE could criticse Australia for being far too lenient on convicted rapists, rather than the other way around.

(Before anyone asks, yes I do think it's outrageous to jail people for extra marital sex, but that's a slightly different issue!)
2.

I think we are back to semantics here - absolutely correct - the courts do not imprison women because they are raped they imprison them because they have taken part in extra marital sex HOWEVER rape is not a defence, so a woman who has no control over the extra marital sex can be imprsoned, or to condense, a victim of rape can be imprisoned. The DFAT site makes amusing reading (if one can be amused by such a situation). It warns that victims of sexual assault have been imprisoned after seeking help from local police or seeking medical assistance. It advices rape victims to rather contact the Australian embassies/consulates. They also advise unmarried women to avoid giving birth in the UAE as she will face a range of problems from a refusal to issue a birth certificate to imprisonment!

 

[fjc]

Been away, so just catching up with this thread. Perhaps a little OT, but - transited through DBX 2 weeks ago on QF2, and was more than a little astounded that the only ladies' toilets available in the gate lounge were Asian squat ones. I had no problems with them when I was much younger and travelling through Asia. However, my wonky hip and knees definitely didn't like them this time, particularly as the bar to pull oneself up with was on the side, and not much help to me.

Talking to an Aussie friend who is a "walking car yard" with very bad hips and knees, and she said that that would definely stop her from transiting via DBX.

Perhaps they were there somewhere and I couldn't see them, in which case they should be properly signed. If none available, then perhaps QF could persuade EK to make at least one of the ladies' toilets into western style.

 

[Mal]

Strangely enough Dubai does have an active gay scene.

 

[haggiscat]

Just part of the prevailing attitude towards women across almost the entire Middle East, which is archaic and repellent, isn't it? I love how so many Australians are such moral equivocators. PC to a fault, but as soon as there is any suggestion that a 'foreign' culture is sub-optimal or has totally bypassed the Enlightenment, up in arms and ready to come to its defence. Or are such blindly loyal supporters of corporate greed and QANTAS propaganda that, while being 'free market buccaneers', they support the prostitution of QANTAS into a travel agent for an airline which is a wholly owned subsidiary of a foreign Government.

Or is it just that the biscuit-cutter hotels in the shimmering sands of the UAE are so spectacular?

 

[sergeyvzn]

Strangely enough Dubai does have an active gay scene.

The kind of gay scene London had in the Victorian era. God bless you if you go to Dubai to enjoy the said scene

 

[Mal]

The kind of gay scene London had in the Victorian era. God bless you if you go to Dubai to enjoy the said scene

Well I wouldn't go for the gay scene. (Am not gay, so doesn't worry me). But the fact remains that Dubai does have a gay scene. And seemingly this is tolerated by the government.

Like many countries, you do need to do something stupid to be arrested in Dubai, or at least seriously unlucky.

 

[whatmeworry]

Like many countries, you do need to do something stupid to be arrested in Dubai, or at least seriously unlucky.

Like the Australian Woman, who went to jail for having sex out of wedlock when she was drugged and raped by her co-workers.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Yes, ladies, do try not to be raped while you're there, ok? If you are, some posters may consider you 'unlucky'.

I however think it is only just shy of murder on the moral spectrum and the idea that a victim would be punished in any way directly or indirectly through another archaic law nothing short of reprehensible.

 

[sergeyvzn]

Well I wouldn't go for the gay scene. (Am not gay, so doesn't worry me). But the fact remains that Dubai does have a gay scene. And seemingly this is tolerated by the government.

Like many countries, you do need to do something stupid to be arrested in Dubai, or at least seriously unlucky.

Every country has a gay scene, even the most repressive one, simply due to the fact that gay people live everywhere and find each other in any country regardless of geography. However, there's a gay scene and a gay scene

A friend of mine taught English in Saudi Arabia and enjoyed their underground gay scene (not terribly thriving but still existing through private parties on villas with male servants) until one lovely day when he was arrested on the street by the religious police while simply talking to a male student of his, not touching or kissing or anything like that, simply talking (they must've followed him on a tip off, he was not sure about the reason but suspected someone let the police know he was gay). He was thrown into jail for 19 days, beaten and humiliated, not allowed to make a phone call to the British Embassy. His employer British Council did not know either where he was or what was happening to him until he was released.
19 days later he was released without explanation and deported in 24 hours. Never has set foot anywhere in the Middle East since and I don't blame him

I'm not saying Dubai is like that. Just a little story about a gay scene in a super conservative Islamic country, to put things into a perspective

 

[Mal]

Yes, ladies, do try not to be raped while you're there, ok? If you are, some posters may consider you 'unlucky'.

I however think it is only just shy of murder on the moral spectrum and the idea that a victim would be punished in any way directly or indirectly through another archaic law nothing short of reprehensible.

Yes. Please not quote me but instead insinuate that I support rape.

Good to see you have support.