I wonder had JASA's continued ...

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

I get that, but the options to travel in premium cabins are still there - just as a Classic Award. So that part of the travel equation hasn't changed.

I don't think the flying in premium cabins was the reason as you can do that on a classic.

It was the fact you could earn status that would then allow you to use the F Lounge or get a good choice of seats when teavelling economy with their families.

Since the advent of Simpler and Fairer I no longer see the value in collecting frequent Flyer points in the QF scheme as the value earn to burn for the majority of people I know is no longer there.

I now find myself recommending alternatives to QF based on Cost and convenience and the ability to redeem points.

A lot of people see the points upgrades as the best value or use of their points.

Since S&F more people than ever have been successful in getting J points upgrades. There's plenty of evidence on the 'successful upgrades' thread of bronze & silver freq flyers getting their requests granted.

 

[TomVexille]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

It's definitely doable. A JASA to the US combined with a paid AA status run could net 1200. I'm pretty sure there are threads on here from the old days of people netting WP with paid fares to HNL/LAS and massive KUPPs. It's harder now but it's still there even without the JASA's.

But not on the same booking, and not for 100,000 points like some people are claiming.

 

[Ghostdunks]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Along with a JASA, the holy trinity

DSC Offer + Comfort Seat + JASA? I thought I felt my ears burning..... I was trying to figure out who everyone was talking about with this rainbow unicorn MASA of one ASA going nowhere and ~100k points enough to qualify for Plat, and then you guys mention the holy trinity, and thought maybe they're talking about me?!? Although in my case, it was more of a mistake from QF that was rectified by them with them crediting extra SCs and points to me for the trouble, rather than a legitimate flight involving all three aspects of the trinity.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

DSC Offer + Comfort Seat + JASA?

Actually I think that person might've only done the DSC/comfort seat thing on paid fares in whY within QLD - I don't think they did it on a JASA.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

But not on the same booking, and not for 100,000 points like some people are claiming.

Oh, definitely not but it is possible in a single US trip. Not cheap and definitely not 100K points.

 

[TomVexille]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Oh, definitely not but it is possible in a single US trip. Not cheap and definitely not 100K points.

Then I'm still confused as to why some people keep spouting this as the cheap shortcut to WP

 

[basso]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Then I'm still confused as to why some people keep spouting this as the cheap shortcut to WP

Which one the KUPP, or the JASA? If they aren't cheap, then why are people doing them?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Then I'm still confused as to why some people keep spouting this as the cheap shortcut to WP

I'm not but yes some people appear to be

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Which one the KUPP, or the JASA? If they aren't cheap, then why are people doing them?

No JASA's anymore and the spend on a KUPP is ever increasing with the QF enhancements and the dwindling Aussie dollar.

It's a quick way to re-qual WP so I can see an advantage there.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Then I'm still confused as to why some people keep spouting this as the cheap shortcut to WP

I think possibly people who requalify for WP predominantly through domestic flying may be saying that where their spend may be around $10K plus per annum but someone else may do some kupps on AA or from or within Asia on MH, UL or QR fares which may be cheaper but not cheap.

The domestic flyer may refer to a 5K spend as being a "cheap way of requalifying for Platinum" because it's less than what they paid.

 

[JohnK]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

No JASA's anymore and the spend on a KUPP is ever increasing with the QF enhancements and the dwindling Aussie dollar.

It's a quick way to re-qual WP so I can see an advantage there.

The discussion was on any seat awards and double SCs. It was a one way street heavily favouring the person taking advantage of the deal, hardly anything in return for Qantas and cheapening status.

KUPPs/YUPPS, business class airfares around Asia (these aren't cheap anymore by the way), DONE4's/DONE5's, Circle Pacific's have all been around a long time and are now slowly being enhanced.

Earming SCs and points was only around a short time. How many other airlines round the world use a similar model in their frequent flyer program?

I don't begrudge people who took advantage of it. Qantas realised they released a hornets nest and shut it down before it got totally out of control.

 

[RichardMEL]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Please don't shoot the messenger here but I reckon if I was a QF exec reading all of this (and related threads) the main thing I'd take away was that "these are the customers we don't want" - and that is the reason (as JohnK points out above) these things have been removed/"enhanced". I'm talking from a business point of view (ie: QF) *not* us as the customers. Yes, absolutely everything done has been within the rules and if QF (or anyone, eg AA with KUPPS) put them out there and they are taken advantage of they've got nobody to blame but themselves - absolutely - but these are the sorts of things that have driven changes. Why have 4~ for example? to ensure you drive some revenue to QF and not just get it all flying cheap sectors elsewhere (as an example). Why "enhance" xASA away? because of what was being done. A business decision in relation to the reality that it was all costing them, and they were ending up with swelled ranks of elites that was not revenue positive for the company.

It reminds me very much of the infamous "Baht Run" back around 2000 or so where enterprising individuals realised they could hit the (then) top UA status of 1K with the 100 sector qualification level flying cheap Star partner TG on intra Thai flights that cost peanuts at the time. Further, they then subcontracted the flying out to locals to fly these sectors (say 9 or 10 a day) back and forward while the smart guys sat by the pool. I could be wrong but I seem to recall they got the status for around USD 1000 with relatively little work apart from the setup. Back then 1K was sort of the poor man's P1 type status - they had dedicated agents, special rooms at hubs and the like and top priority for everything. I myself got there not via Thailand, but flying Star RTWs booking in B class(before they changed ("enhanced") it) which had a multiplier on EQM's and one could reach the 100,000 elite miles for maybe 40k flown. Again, they wised up to this and changed things to make it much harder.

Personally I don't blame either "side" here - two sides of the same game. As consumers, we want to get the best deal, the best "bang for buck" and to use the system the best way that we can... and they want to get the most out of us "the best buck for bang"(I guess ) because it's about revenue, and each justle with the other to make it work the best for them. That's the nature of the game in my view.

I don't begrudge those who used DSC's on JASAs (I did one or two myself, but not a whole heap) to get to status.. not one bit. QF made the xASA's available, then offered DSC on top - it's the savvy flyers who took full advantage and well done. QF then responded to cut it down. Sure, it pisses many of us off each wave of "enhancements" but that's QF's goal.... the playing field changes, and everyone takes stock and changes their strategies.. some jump ship to other carriers/FFP's, some change their buying strategy(BFOD), some modify their behaviour to continue to make the most of the system as it is and everything in between.

As an aside many airlines have their equivalent of SC's these days just in different forms. UA has EQM (sorry "Premier Qualifying Miles") AA has had Q points for a long long time-based on fare paid etc. I find it amusing that I have hit UA Platinum status with exactly 4 UA sectors (the rest on NZ in a much better product) and a bonus PQM offer at a ridiculously low cost(to me, anyway). I didn't really seek it out, but more a combination of, again, what the carrier offered (the bonus) and the system they have in place.. a paid J R/T to the USA (on a sale fare mind you) and another on NZ (again, sale fare at an insane price) and I have a fairly good status level and Star Gold and all that into 2017. I didn't even *try* to play the system in this case (UA status is not that useful or interesting to me anymore) but that's just the way it is. Similar to those doing AA YUPPS and NZ runs on QF/EK.

All imho

 

[greenfish]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Richard, while agreeing with a lot of what you say, I think you're wrong in saying we're the sort of customers QF doesn't want.

Keep in mind that someone who is prepared to lay out points and cash, and sit in a plane for days for no other purpose than earning status is a pretty damn loyal customer, and is likely both to be loyal to QF and to be an advocate of QF.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Please don't shoot the messenger here but I reckon if I was a QF exec reading all of this (and related threads) the main thing I'd take away was that "these are the customers we don't want" - and that is the reason (as JohnK points out above) these things have been removed/"enhanced". I'm talking from a business point of view (ie: QF) *not* us as the customers.

Except that ignores the indirect benefit QF gets from people on AFF recommending others to travel with them. I would hazard a guess that a platinum frequent flyer, feeling the love, enjoying the F lounge and plenty of on-board perks is going to recommend Qantas more regularly than someone who isn't.

Take away status and all of a sudden the conversation 'who do you fly with?' changes from 'Qantas' to 'well... I used to fly Qantas but now there's a whole bunch of airlines offering cheap fares out of Singapore, and you can fly business class for just a little more than economy'.

Take away status, or make it too hard to earn status, and a whole range of options on different airlines open up.

Were there many people 'taking advantage' of the system? Who knows. Did Qantas do the analysis to work out the loss-of-benefit by putting their third party endorsers off-side? Who knows.

 

[Ghostdunks]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Please don't shoot the messenger here

OT, but I don't think that means what you think it means....

 

[JohnK]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Richard, while agreeing with a lot of what you say, I think you're wrong in saying we're the sort of customers QF doesn't want.

Keep in mind that someone who is prepared to lay out points and cash, and sit in a plane for days for no other purpose than earning status is a pretty damn loyal customer, and is likely both to be loyal to QF and to be an advocate of QF.

Why are we ignoring what Qantas has to say on this matter?

There were lots of people who attained Platinum One with a quarter of the projected spend. It's no coincidence the majority of those are AFF'ers. They know it. Qantas knew it. It was a clear one way street. I don't know what spend Qantas expected fod Platinum One but it wasn't a few cheap points and some loose change.

Can someone please tell me how much Qantas sells points to partners? I'd be surprised if it was more than 0.7 cents/point but my guess would much lower. So when you multiple 100,000 x 0.007 or even 500,000 x 0.007 it is not a big number. And then you earned status and points back on that investment. One way street.

We have one really bad habit here on AFF and other online forums. When we find a good deal we overuse it. I was going to say abuse but that's not right.

Qantas doesn't need someone burning some points on a BNE-MEL-PER-KTA return on double SCs 2 days in a row. With running commentary? Or someone nesting an ADL-BNE-TSV return with a TSV-BNE-DRW on a weekend. And not just one weekend but multiple weekends. And not just one AFF'er but many AFF'ers bragging about the meetups on AFF. And let's not forget the HBA express complete with trip reports.

How does an any seat award in business AKL-SYD-LAX end up cheaper than a classic award in business SYD-LAX and the icing was earning ~54,000 points and a big bunch of SCs? Zone based anomaly in any seat awards?

Subtlety goes a long way.

I am certain Qantas does not need these customers. I feel sorry for those that were genuinely using them for their travel needs. Don't blame Qantas for removing them.

Also don't come out and say that Qantas could have repriced them. I am certain AFF'ers would not have been happy anyway.

And I strongly believe somd AFF'ers place way too much value on the "cheap" points they are earning. Get the points for nothing and then expect everything out of it. Flooding the market only hurts people with points balances or those earnt by flying.

You don't have to agree with what I am saying. I'm not making it up. Not easy to delete history. And I am not having a shot at anyone so please don't take it personally. I am stating facts as I saw them evolve on AFF.

 

[RichardMEL]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Let me restate my comment regarding QF "not wanting" this sort of customer. Let me put it this way - If you are QF who do you want attaining status and using the perks (eg: F lounges around the world - which COST QF)? Your xASA/DSC/SC run type, or the full Y MEL-SYD road warrior?

While I see the point that happy campers enjoying the status, however you got it, MAY influence others to try it out, and that those customers even if on "cheap" SC runs just to get status all wind up giving QF some revenue in the process and thus are "loyal' to the extent of flying sectors and burning points and/or cash for it they wouldn't normally (and yes, I have done this so I absolutely include myself here) I was simply trying to say that from the point of view of QF there are customers you'd prefer to have. Obviously every customer giving revenue to the carrier is worth something (your PCV) - some would be worth more to the BUSINESS.

Remember folks, I was simply trying to express the point of view of QF.

And I think to the question/comment of MEL_Traveller above - Were many people "taking advantage" of things? Obviously. Enough so so that QF noticed and did something about it. This seems a fairly clear case of response to a situation that occured. It's either due to this, or simply QF figured that xASA (for example) were too low yield for them.. same result really since you can be sure QF did an analysis of all xASA awards taken, their yield to QF, the results of that (numbers of SC's allocated, elite levels gained, whatever.. I have no idea of this just speculation, but you'd have to imagine it is along these lines).

And as JohnK aluded to above all QF would have needed to do is read AFF, FT or any other forum to see what was going on and I would suspect it became more than a small annoyance to significant enough for QF to go through the process to look into it and change it.

Again I'm NOT having a go at anyone who had done this in the past, or anyone using the system as published right now to its full extent. I'm one of them, but probably to a lesser extent to some. That would be hypocritical of me (hence my "don't shoot the messenger" comment) I'm just trying to suggest a different side to the picture.

It's human nature to make the best of any situation and there are numerous examples through history of this and it's a good quality in many respects to use one's intelligence and ingenuity to find ways and means to make the most of any situation. I think it's great each time something's uncovered and used (unless it's illegal/fraud) but by the same token the responses are also understandable - as I suggested it's all part of the "game"

 

[RichardMEL]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

OT, but I don't think that means what you think it means....

oh, do correct me then.....

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Why are we ignoring what Qantas has to say on this matter?

There were lots of people who attained Platinum One with a quarter of the projected spend. It's no coincidence the majority of those are AFF'ers. They know it. Qantas knew it. It was a clear one way street. I don't know what spend Qantas expected fod Platinum One but it wasn't a few cheap points and some loose change.

Subtlety goes a long way.
.

This was definitely the message that came across at the loyalty lunch that a few of us including yourself and medhead attended.

Your last point is often overlooked and IMO there was and still is at times a tendency for an OzBargain style frenzy to take hold.

 

[blackcat20]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

And as JohnK aluded to above all QF would have needed to do is read AFF, FT or any other forum to see what was going on and I would suspect it became more than a small annoyance to significant enough for QF to go through the process to look into it and change it.

When the website was first rejigged and MASAs moved to phone bookings, we were assured over and over again that they would be staying...then suddenly they were gone.