In Defence of the Melbourne Dungeon

[TomVexille]

Not sure that MEL is immune to DYKWIA types yelling at the phones.
A few months back I spotted one in the wild and sat opposite him with a notebook and pen. Might have actually been that high bench in your pic, can't remember. Anyway, as he proceeded to hold a Zoom meeting or whatever on his iPhone speaker at full volume I pretended to take notes and nodded in agreement with the conversation every time he looked up. Took him a while but he soon got the message and moved away. The bloke next to him looked at me and burst out laughing.
If anyone here is on the SLT at Target I have some comprehensive minutes of your weekly meeting. PM me.

Agreed. My one time I had to settle for the QF J dungeon was spoiled by the DYKWIA retiree who was calling her entire contact list at quite the elevated volume to let them know that she was in the QF lounge and to not call her for a month as she on her way to the US for a holiday.

 

[Eastwick20]

While a plane cough view is great for me its more If I'm about to, or just been flying in a small claustrophobic tin can for up to 15 hours, being in a lounge with windows and a decent view gives a feeling of much needed light and space

 

[RichardMEL]

United Clubs, Admiral Lounges and Delta SkyClubs are domestic and international lounges though, since the US doesn't believe in segregation of passengers based on their destination (unlike some other countries ). So yes, it is a fair comparison in that regard and not contradictory. It is also true that some lounges do have the Polaris lounge, which I reckon would be comparable to the Flounge as others have described it (remember too that the US doesn't offer First class service internationally).

Sorry. Got to disagree again.

As I already commented earlier. Yes, these clubs do service those departing on international flights - no question. However relative to total departures from a big hub (like LAX, EWR, ORD, DFW, etc) they're a small percentage of the overall people in the lounges. Further that is the only time that airline (such as UA/AA/DL's status pax can get access based upon their status. If flying an International Business Class (or higher) then they can use the higher level lounges ie: Polaris/Flagship.

Now true, QC members and those using guest passes are who you are really comparing these US lounges with in relation to a QF *international* J lounge - and those lounges do not serve domestic flights* - so it's a different situation - and as such apples v oranges in my view.

Further, if I am a QC member flying on a domestic flight, I can't access the international Business Lounge - so again, the comparison doesn't work.

* the rare example of a domestic tag of an international flight such as QF5 SYD-PER, QF9 MEL-PER or those fun JQ 787 tags many of us have taken advantage of over the years are a very small exception.

Post automatically merged: Jan 11, 2023

In the context of the posts in this thread, I'm trying to think of the airports that have pure play (unconnected) international terminals that DL, UA, and/or AA use for international departures only. I'm sure there must be some, but struggling. Of the three main "international terminals" that come to mind two are connected airside (SFO, TBIT@LAX) whilst at ORD, UA and AA international flights don't depart the international terminal.

In addition some domestic flights do depart from both the G gates at SFO International Termina and TBIT.

 

[RichardMEL]

On the topics of Dungeon Lounges at MEL, the coolest undoubtedly is the NZ lounge, the level below the QF lounge. And not being sarcastic, I think the apron views from that lounge are pretty unique, you get an up close look at the ground goings on, often around the undercarriage of an A380. It’s the yin to the F Lounge’s yang.

Totally agree. I had mentioned this in one of the other lounge bashing threads. When a 380 is at gate 9 the view from the NZ lounge can be fantastic. Yes, it's uber ground level, but that is also quite a unique angle.

I really quite like that NZ lounge tbh.

 

[Peanutbladder]

Totally agree. I had mentioned this in one of the other lounge bashing threads. When a 380 is at gate 9 the view from the NZ lounge can be fantastic. Yes, it's uber ground level, but that is also quite a unique angle.

I really quite like that NZ lounge tbh.

Miss the pool table though

 

[RooFlyer]

but the dungeon has decent food, good drinks self serve

I recall juddles used to ignore the FLounge in favour of the J lounge purely for the free-pour rum!!

 

[RichardMEL]

Back to the QF int J lounge. I'll be honest and say that if the food has improved that's very good to hear. Obviously I have usually gone to the F lounge, but had some occasions to use the J lounge ex-MEL a few times pre pandemic, and pretty much all that was on offer was slop akin to SYD domestic J. I'm sorry to say but that's instantly what I was reminded of! Yep, the free pour wine/spirits quite OK (though I did not tend to indulge in much of that) and the lollies etc but my priority at the times was usually something to eat, maybe a glass of wine or beer and a comfy chair. Usually managed 2/3 but the vibe of the place, the darkness and well dungeon-y feel definitely detracted.

At any rate if the food offering has improved that's definitely a positive. I guess it's all subjective though and potentially depending on time of day and offering as to one's satisfaction factor. Certainly one of the larger business lounge areas at MEL (which is needed) - certainly compared to CX, SQ (and for anyone that may remember the long gone UA lounge). I'd still prefer the NZ lounge of all of that cluster downstairs.

 

[Mr H]

Interesting discussion. I visited a number of J lounges last year and the Dungeon was not the worst. I thought the catering was pretty good and the seating was quite comfortable. It did feel dark, though.

For me, the comfort of the seating the the most important consideration. A lounge is somewhere might be sitting for a good few hours.

I like to have something interesting to look at, and preferable natural light. I will be interested to see the new Private Room in April to see whether, as I suspect, the absence of natural light has made this the least attractive SQ lounge in SIN.

I like to have an area that is quiet where I can read.

Showers are welcome in transit lounges, but unlikely to be a deal-breaker in a port like Melbourne which is seldom used to connect between international flights. Absence of showers in connecting airport lounges is a huge disappointment.

Then, and only then, am I going to look at catering. Being honest, I can't remember eating anything in a lounge that beat good street food. I don't go to a lounge to eat, although I may eat if I am in a lounge. Options that are not high in salt (and leave you thirsty) are a bonus.

Of course, there are add-ons that are a bit special - massages, pool tables, scalextric, sleep rooms, city tours - which are great, but if the seating is not comfortable then the rest is pretty pointless. Case in point - Colombo has some very nice Sri Lankan curries but not a single comfy seat in the place.

 

[RichardMEL]

OT but mention of TPR is an interesting one. I've been lucky enough to visit the old one a number of times in SIN and yes, the service is great, food pretty good and all, but the lounge within a lounge within a lounge type deal far from real light did have the effect, for me anyway, of finding it a nice place to visit, have a really delicious meal and few drinks, but it was not a place I would want to linger for hours and hours. Oh that and the coffee machine coffee was a downer (I think they may have fixed this with the new setup? I hope!).

There are some lounges where it can be quite nice to while away a few hours.. and some where - for me at least - it's worth a stop to do whatever it is you want to do - pit stop, eat a meal, shower etc and more or less go elsewhere. TPR was kind of the later for me - as exclusive as it is.

Each to their own though. Enjoy visiting the new one @Mr H ! I definitely look forward to seeing the various reviews once it's properly open.

 

[Mr H]

OT but mention of TPR is an interesting one. I've been lucky enough to visit the old one a number of times in SIN and yes, the service is great, food pretty good and all, but the lounge within a lounge within a lounge type deal far from real light did have the effect, for me anyway, of finding it a nice place to visit, have a really delicious meal and few drinks, but it was not a place I would want to linger for hours and hours.

The old TPR did have natural light - that was its major selling point, although they had heat deflectors (?) on the outside of the windows which obscured what could have been a reasonable view. Agree about the coffee, the laksa was instant, and the seats were not particularly comfortable.

If anyone wants a recommendation of a good lounge, the IST TK lounge is up there. I was also rather fond of the BA lounges in LHR T5 which had comfortable seating, good views, plenty of light and reasonable catering.

 

[justinbrett]

Showers are welcome in transit lounges, but unlikely to be a deal-breaker in a port like Melbourne which is seldom used to connect between international flights. Absence of showers in connecting airport lounges is a huge disappointment.

Seldom? If you mean I-I maybe, but they're also used for D-I, as nobody is going to have a shower in the domestic lounge before transferring to the international terminal.

And lots of people make D-I connections - more SYD, but also MEL. Definitely not seldom. It needs showers.

 

[Mr H]

Seldom? If you mean I-I maybe, but they're also used for D-I, as nobody is going to have a shower in the domestic lounge before transferring to the international terminal.

And lots of people make D-I connections - more SYD, but also MEL. Definitely not seldom. It needs showers.

Fair enough, although there's only so much sweating someone is going to do between Hobart and Melbourne. Maybe I am letting my Pommy aversion to water shine through.

 

[RichardMEL]

The old TPR did have natural light - that was its major selling point, although they had heat deflectors (?) on the outside of the windows which obscured what could have been a reasonable view. Agree about the coffee, the laksa was instant, and the seats were not particularly comfortable.

yes, that window wall where the seating was between the entrance corridor coming into where the dining room area is. I kind of discounted it a bit because of the obsured "view" that made it more a sort of frosted effect.

but yes, some natural light I guess.

I guess I was thinking more of the actual dining room area which, to my memory anyway, was away from that and thus darker.

If anyone wants a recommendation of a good lounge, the IST TK lounge is up there. I was also rather fond of the BA lounges in LHR T5 which had comfortable seating, good views, plenty of light and reasonable catering.

yes, LHR T5 has great views and light. As opposed to the Galleries lounge in T3 which, iirc, had limited windows (higher up) and not a lot of light (though to be fair my visits were usually in the evening so light was either fading or gone)

I enjoyed the AY setup too - with window facing seats on a slightly raised level right by the window, so you could sit there and get a view and light you want, then step down into the bigger lounge area per se, get a drink, food etc. Stll a lot of light too, but there was a kind of dedicated seating area along that window line which I used to enjoy on HEL transits (somehow I always was allowed to go to HEL but then out again )


AA LAX T4 and DFW D gates are also lounges with a lot of light and good views too iirc.

I think someone might have also mentioned what used to be the UA F lounge at SFO International which also was a dungeon downstairs between two of the G gates IIRC. boy that was kinda depressing. Even the QF MEL J lounge is nicer than that was! LOL

 

[RichardMEL]

Fair enough, although there's only so much sweating someone is going to do between Hobart and Melbourne. Maybe I am letting my Pommy aversion to water shine through.

they went into the HBA QF lounge and that's where it started.. and only got worse!!!!

I also have a friend who is MEL based and he takes showers as a matter of course even when departing from his home airport iirc. Some people like to be as clean and fresh as possible before getting on a tube for long periods I guess....

Each to their own.

 

[dajop]

I also have a friend who is MEL based and he takes showers as a matter of course even when departing from his home airport iirc. Some people like to be as clean and fresh as possible before getting on a tube for long periods I guess....

Often take a shower before my regular MEL-SIN flight (late afternoon), especially in summer, as usually I have a busy day in the lead up to departing. and well just want to be polite to fellow pax If I'm travelling on late night departure on med-long haul I always have a nice hot shower if I can, helps me relax on the flight for some reason (also helps for afternoon flights).

 

[kangarooflyer88]

One item I saw discussed quite a bit in this thread, but agree is worth noting is that travelling on an international J ticket the lounge experience isn't particularly good at most hubs, with the First lounge being comparable to international business class lounges (i.e. Polaris). Given Qantas offers limited First class service internationally, one wonders whether a rebrand is in order with the International J lounge being renamed the Qantas Club (and accessible to OWS/QF Club members) and the First lounge being renamed to Qantas Business lounge (and accessible to OWEs, and those flying in Business/First). I will say having been to two Qantas International business lounges now (SYD, MEL) that they are somewhat underwhelming regardless of where you go. Certainly a step above United Clubs but nowhere near as good as a Polaris lounge or even a Lufthansa Senator lounge at Heathrow or even Dulles.

One lounge I saw at MEL but which I didn't visit was the Cathay lounge. Unsure if it was opened or how it compares to QF J lounge.

Wrong, for the moment. AA still does, and the current lounge construct for AA is based on that.

Correct, but First class will be gone in a few months and at that point there will be no distinction between Business and First class in AA's eyes. What I will point out is that when United phased out their GlobalFirst (international First class) and BusinessFirst (international business class / domestic "first" class), they ended up closing their GlobalFirst lounges entirely and then slowly built out their network of Polaris lounges.

Quite a few airports in the US separate domestic and international terminals.

Some do such as LAX and SFO. However, again it's a distinction without merit since you can freely go into/out of said terminals. Indeed, pre-pandemic it was quite common for me to visit TBIT whilst flying United domestic to access the Star Alliance lounge for a shower followed by a meal on the terrace. Again, US travel is wild (in a good way) in the sense that there is no distinction between international and domestic flights. Virtually every airport in the US you can access any lounges at that airport with a boarding pass departing the airport the same day. You don't have to pull "stunts" like flying on a QF international flight domestically to access the international terminal.

I have defended the J dungeon before and continue to do so (after 5 years as a Plat using the Flounge). Flounge is something else, but the dungeon has decent food, good drinks self serve and I like the dungeons style of it... Darkness before the flight.

Good to see I'm not the only one who thinks the lounge isn't that bad!

But… if you are a business class customer on AA or UA you can use the Flagship or Polaris lounges at major gateways. Melbourne is a major gateway. The lounge offering there is akin to an aadmirals Club or United club. Basically an economy lounge with economy catering.

What more could we want from an international gateway J lounge? Decent food and drink!

I'd argue a step above a United Club or AAdmirals lounge, but yeah not as nice as say a Lufthansa Senator lounge or NZ lounge for that matter.

Nice post and good perspective.
I gather, apart from the chairs, the Centurion lounge was nothing to write home about?

Here's photos I got from that lounge:





Not the biggest lounge, and food options were somewhat limited. However, what they did have was decent. I do think the Centurion lounge is a bit better since there are fewer people (and let's face it anyone with a pulse can access the QF J lounge) and better seating.

As I already commented earlier. Yes, these clubs do service those departing on international flights - no question. However relative to total departures from a big hub (like LAX, EWR, ORD, DFW, etc) they're a small percentage of the overall people in the lounges. Further that is the only time that airline (such as UA/AA/DL's status pax can get access based upon their status. If flying an International Business Class (or higher) then they can use the higher level lounges ie: Polaris/Flagship.

This has not been my experience at all! I would challenge you to try eating at the sit down restaurant at the Polaris lounge in Los Angeles or San Francisco without waiting an hour or more for seating to open up. Now yes, I will grant you that at O'Hare, it's not a problem, in large part to United continually increasing the floor space of the Polaris lounge. Aside from O'Hare, every time I've visited a Polaris lounge I ended up using the buffet whose food quite frankly doesn't hold a candle up to the Emirates lounge.

Interesting discussion. I visited a number of J lounges last year and the Dungeon was not the worst. I thought the catering was pretty good and the seating was quite comfortable. It did feel dark, though.

Were they all domestic or were some international? Which ones fared better/worse than the Dungeon?

I like to have an area that is quiet where I can read.

And that was something I had at the MEL lounge. Every stinking time I visit the SYD J lounge it's chock-a-block.

Showers are welcome in transit lounges, but unlikely to be a deal-breaker in a port like Melbourne which is seldom used to connect between international flights. Absence of showers in connecting airport lounges is a huge disappointment.

Showers are welcome irrespective of airport. I can't tell you the times where I had a late night flight out of DRW, TSV or CNS where I was sweaty and enjoyed taking a shower to feel refreshed before flying back to SYD. The other reason for wanting a shower is to recover from the dry conditions or flying and/or to prepare yourself for entering an environment where humidity is low.

Then, and only then, am I going to look at catering. Being honest, I can't remember eating anything in a lounge that beat good street food. I don't go to a lounge to eat, although I may eat if I am in a lounge. Options that are not high in salt (and leave you thirsty) are a bonus.

Clearly you haven't been to an Emirates lounge:

Of course, there are add-ons that are a bit special - massages, pool tables, scalextric, sleep rooms, city tours - which are great, but if the seating is not comfortable then the rest is pretty pointless. Case in point - Colombo has some very nice Sri Lankan curries but not a single comfy seat in the place.

Sleep rooms are nice: KLM and Swiss have those (albeit I've never had a chance to use them given the challenge of coordinating sleep schedules on "domestic" flights between North America and Europe). For me a lovely terrace where I can enjoy my meal with lovely views whilst having a fresh supply of burning avgas is key.

they went into the HBA QF lounge and that's where it started.. and only got worse!!!!

At this point, anything at the HBA QF lounge would be considered an improvement (including closure!). Heck, I'd reckon there would be an expose if the HBA QF lounge introduced a selection of lollies.

-RooFlyer88

 

[justinbrett]

Correct, but First class will be gone in a few months and at that point there will be no distinction between Business and First class in AA's eyes. What I will point out is that when United phased out their GlobalFirst (international First class) and BusinessFirst (international business class / domestic "first" class), they ended up closing their GlobalFirst lounges entirely and then slowly built out their network of Polaris lounges.

Well - it starts in 2024, so quite a few months yet. AA doesn't have a first class lounge, it just offers first class dining inside its Flagship lounge - so not really any changes to make other than reducing or eliminating the a la carte dining in the Flagship lounges.

Some do such as LAX and SFO. However, again it's a distinction without merit since you can freely go into/out of said terminals. Indeed, pre-pandemic it was quite common for me to visit TBIT whilst flying United domestic to access the Star Alliance lounge for a shower followed by a meal on the terrace. Again, US travel is wild (in a good way) in the sense that there is no distinction between international and domestic flights. Virtually every airport in the US you can access any lounges at that airport with a boarding pass departing the airport the same day. You don't have to pull "stunts" like flying on a QF international flight domestically to access the international terminal.

All the more reason to be careful comparing Australian and US lounges. But for the most part, an Admirals Club is designed to serve domestic pax. A Flagship lounge is designed to serve international pax. It doesn't mean they are used for that exclusively, but an Admirals Club in an airport without a Flagship lounge and serves international routes isn't usually any better than a purely domestic Admirals Club.

 

[Princess Fiona]

One item I saw discussed quite a bit in this thread, but agree is worth noting is that travelling on an international J ticket the lounge experience isn't particularly good at most hubs, with the First lounge being comparable to international business class lounges (i.e. Polaris). Given Qantas offers limited First class service internationally, one wonders whether a rebrand is in order with the International J lounge being renamed the Qantas Club (and accessible to OWS/QF Club members) and the First lounge being renamed to Qantas Business lounge (and accessible to OWEs, and those flying in Business/First). I will say having been to two Qantas International business lounges now (SYD, MEL) that they are somewhat underwhelming regardless of where you go.

The short answer: No
The long answer : Also no

You seem to have some views that would be regarded as fairly outside the mainstream on lounges that you have never visited eg. SYD / MEL F which I have been in many times.

I’m by no means the authority on F Lounges but having been in a few worldwide including your beloved Polaris (on multiple occasions). You are very far off the mark here IMHO.
Perhaps go experience some F lounges a few times and come back to us when you have some real life meaningful comparisons.

 

[Mr H]

Were they all domestic or were some international? Which ones fared better/worse than the Dungeon?

Noting that it is a personal thing, and what I like may not be what you like...

• CMB UL J - plenty of daylight and tarmac views, great self serve Sri Lankan buffet, dining tables and very uncomfortable sofas. On a par with QF perhaps, but the seating is a big problem.
  ​
• DEL AI J Domestic - small, no daylight, very limited food and drink, dirty but passably comfortable. Worse team QF.
  ​
• DEL J International - no daylight, crowded, food and drink look good but actually very little you'd want, no hot food, crowded but comfortable seating. Worse than QF.
  ​
• MXP J International - daylight, crowded, comfortable seating, limited selection of snacks and drink - worse than QF.
  ​
• DOH QR J - huge warehouse with no cosiness, overcrowded and noisy, uncomfortable seats, huge queues for everything, catering only by waiter service (queues) and little more than toasties. Two hour queue for showers. Dreadful.
  ​
• IKA International CIP Terminal - huge, comfortable seats, plenty of daylight but not much else. Catering very limited and mostly on request. Deeply weird and better than QF.
  ​
• TUN J International - overcrowded, daylight, limited selection of snacks - did not stay because of lack of space. Worse than QF.
  ​
• AMM RJ J - a mezzanine level in the main terminal, OK seating, lacklustre catering but they did try to do interesting things (Arabic pizza, Turkish coffee) - hard to compare with QF as it is so different, but probably slightly better while looking less swanky.
  ​
• LHR BA J Terminal 3 - possibly daylight but it was night, comfortable seats, showers, good catering. Ticked all the boxes. Better than QF.
  ​
• HEL AY J - large concrete space that looked unfinished - daylight in parts but all the charm of sitting in a corrdor - uncomfortable seating, OK catering, showers. On a par with QF?​

 

[downgraded]

For me, not solely, but it's a factor. SQ's old Private Room lacked ambience. LH's FCT, while it has light, the view is a commercial building and car park. I don't use it on that basis given the other lounges offer the same amenities.

If you had equal lounges with and without light, which would we choose?

Not solely natural light but QF (or any lounge) without decent natural views will always be rated second. QF has deliberately been taking away external windows from its int. J lounges and QP domestic lounges and they now feel more like hospital waiting rooms than airport departure lounges. MEL Int J lounge isn't so bad as a lounge, but it is very claustrophobic. PER transit lounge had me grabbing a drink and heading back to a stool back in concourse rather than trying to peer at the sky through that sliver of a skylight 2 floors above. Some locations they may have no option with the space they can get, but MEL domestic refurb was a very poor deal for QF Pub users.