Increased aviation security at Australian airports

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'The Australian' is giving top billing to (among other requests) a call by Australian Airline Pilots Association president Murray Butt, a QF A388 pilot, to introduce compulsory ID checks for boarding domestic passengers.

I don't know what percentage coverage of airline pilots this organisation has. It may be quite low, and in any case pilots are only one group of airline staff. I haven't seen other unions join in, and even then many staff may not be members of unions, which overall (across the whole economy) have way under 20 per cent coverage. In other words, about 85 per cent of us are not union members, so at times they can be very unrepresentative.

As the article notes, the airlines will probably privately lobby against this due to its introduction negating cost savings from automated check-in kiosks. The Federal Transport Minister (Chester) made the point that minors may not have ID. On top of this, not everyone has a passport (which may surprise some AFF members), and some teenagers rely on ID cards like Keypasses to prove their age.

Those of us with longer memories may recall that in 1987 Australians voted against introduction of what was to be termed the Australia Card. A practical difficulty would be a need to have clear rules about which forms of ID were acceptable. How checking would be organised would be crucial as doing it at the gate would be impractical and slow, unless the whole process was largely automated. Those with airline lounge access don't present at gates until the last minute in many cases.

There is also a very sensible call for contractors working at airports to be subject to metal detector and bag screening. While neither will apparently detect plastic explosives, it has long been a concern that these ground staff can get access to so many places on the tarmac and yet sometimes their bona fides could be under question.

If the paywall wins, type 'pilots push for passport style photo ID checks' into Google.

Nocookies | The Australian

One could expect to hear more of this debate played out publicly.
 
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Yes I do tend to agree with you. But to lay it at the door of a wired religious belief is not warranted. Anyone who wants to take a life for suppose 'religious' beliefs is by definition mentally deranged. But, it's all too convenient to label acts as 'terrorism' then spend billions of our taxpayers dollars on agencies, ridiculous air port security that is more show than effective, more bureaucracy, etc, just to alarm the population and make political points to get reelected. (And, unfortunately, that applies to both major parties, who are too scared to address the nuances in the discussion). Combined with a number of Breitbart commentators in local media screaming rubbish over the airwaves, the 'promotion' of the terrorist ideology is exactly what such people want, plus what the polies need instead of proper policy.

Someone who is bad does not necessarily mean they are mad

Was Hitler/Stalin/Idi Amin/Pol Pot /Bin Laden etc mad or bad?

Mad and Bad can be mutually exclusive
 
As the article notes, the airlines will probably privately lobby against this due to its introduction negating cost savings from automated check-in kiosks. The Federal Transport Minister (Chester) made the point that minors may not have ID. On top of this, not everyone has a passport (which may surprise some AFF members), and some teenagers rely on ID cards like Keypasses to prove their age.

Those of us with longer memories may recall that in 1987 Australians voted against introduction of what was to be termed the Australia Card. A practical difficulty would be a need to have clear rules about which forms of ID were acceptable. How checking would be organised would be crucial as doing it at the gate would be impractical and slow, unless the whole process was largely automated. Those with airline lounge access don't present at gates until the last minute in many cases..

Yes, the issue of ID checks may get interesting given the heavy investment by airlines in self service check-in technology and the cost savings in this automation.

Perhaps they may look at more ID checks and unique data in the booking stage but this then would open a new can of worms by making every airline booking web site and online TA as a mass data harvesting excercise with its own attendant privacy and data security issues.

Manually checking all pax IDs either at checkin, security or at the gate upon boarding may be looked at, but it will make for a very interesting discussion about who would provide the resources to be able to do this....maybe the cost of that might mean that a random sub-sample of pax may be randomly selected for more intensive ID checks as a perceived deterrent?

Makes for an interesting security question of what we should be targetting at airports, should we be targetting certain types of people (so having to collect data on everyone to determine who they are interested in) or targetting 'things' such as guns, knives, explosives etc which may be able to be screened or detected.
 
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Unless the ID is checked against a database of known and suspected criminals/terrorists then it is just theatre and revenue protection for the airlines.

Also, we need a form of identification such as the US passport card that doesn't have your address on it.


It also begs the question of why doesn't security screening eliminate all risks?
 
Zero discernible impact tonight clearing security via the VA Lounge entrance. Bag was subject to a 'random search' but cleared in seconds....
 
Having just watched about 75 episodes of President Frank Underwoods, 'House of Cards' and seeing as we now need to justify and support the new super dooper Dept, a little scpetisism may be well justified.

I get the impression that some these "anti-terror" raids are focused more on PR than national security, given that they often do not result in criminal charges (despite the odd arrests).
 
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It is our turn to get into the security line today. I will let you know how it goes this morning.
 
Having just watched about 75 episodes of President Frank Underwoods, 'Game of Cards' and seeing as we now need to justify and support the new super doper Dept, a little scpetisism may be well justified.

No worries - just watch all 8 series of The West Wing and your confidence will be restored :) .
 
As a weekly flyer I welcome ID checks (drivers licence) either at security or gate. Can't board a plane in US without showing ID
 
.................. Can't board a plane in US without showing ID

But obviously you can get off the plane with out going thru all the hassles ..........

" Passenger opens aeroplane door and jumps out "

Brisbane Times 03/08/2017"San Francisco: A 17-year-old passenger swung open an emergency exit on Tuesday and jumped from an aeroplane onto the runway at San Francisco International Airport.
An airport official said that after Copa Airlines flight 208 from Panama City landed about 2.30pm local time, the teen – who has not been publicly identified – jumped out the door as the plane was waiting to taxi to the gate."
 
The biggest problem I see is that increasing security and/or checkin lines you may increase passengers chance of being involved in a terror attack by having a large concentration of people who have not been screened.As was the case at Brussels airport.
 
Thus far there do not appear to have been widespread delays from the new security procedures, although as Pushka has let us know, there are annoyances such as one line only in ADL and airport facilities not being open at 0400 hours. Delays have occurred this week from fog, and the usual failures affecting individual planes.

It would be helpful to have advice from AFFers who travel at peak times on this Friday afternoon (such as 1630 to 1930 hours) as to the queues and particularly whether if they have a limited time to leave work and catch a flight whether they got through security quickly.
 
The biggest problem I see is that increasing security and/or checkin lines you may increase passengers chance of being involved in a terror attack by having a large concentration of people who have not been screened.As was the case at Brussels airport.

True and this was mentioned by security experts in the wake of the Brussels incident, but to be fair, Islamic terrorists target anywhere there are large numbers of people, so major CBD streets, outside major railway stations and sporting and other entertainment ground/ facility queues and inside such venues are also vulnerable.
 
Unless the ID is checked against a database of known and suspected criminals/terrorists then it is just theatre and revenue protection for the airlines.

Agree entirely - if not cross checked against a database of criminals/potential terrorists etc then its just security theatre rather than security checking.


The biggest problem I see is that increasing security and/or checkin lines you may increase passengers chance of being involved in a terror attack by having a large concentration of people who have not been screened.As was the case at Brussels airport.

Yes - just herding all the potential targets to an unscreened less secure area, but I expect the recent incresed prescence of police in the check-in and pre-screening areas is a response to that.

I will be travelling through ADL and BNE on Sat morning so will see how things go, ADL is already pretty slow and congested on a normal Sat morning so I expect it will be pretty ordinary this Sat.
 
Today was really easy so no problems at all. We arrived at 7.10 am and made it to the First Class lounge in Sydney by 7.35 am.
 
As a weekly flyer I welcome ID checks (drivers licence) either at security or gate. Can't board a plane in US without showing ID


And as I stated earlier what is the purpose of an isolated ID check?

The USA TSA are generally acknowledged as the most incompetent group of employees ever and when given 'authoritah' over people go out of their way to make sure you bow and scrape to them at every opportunity. Their catch phrase when questioned is 'do you want to fly today?' and threats of arrest are common.

These are the types of people who will gravitate towards ID checking positions to the ultimate detriment of the travel industry.

As someone who has flown in the USA and spent hours in queues just to have my passport checked and BP smeared by one of these goons with attitude, I don't know why anybody would want to replicate that failed system here.

Oh and as demonstrated with monotonous regularity some of the worst criminals in the US airports are the TSA clerks.
 
For instance, QF normally has a Monday morning (Tuesday if a public holiday) 0530 hours flight from MEL to SYD. On that morning, will the Qantas Club and Chairmans Lounge begin opening at 0330 if they do not at present?'

Anyone know if VA is opening their lounge earlier? I believe they open at 5am. Is that still the case or has this been updated?
 
And as I stated earlier what is the purpose of an isolated ID check?

The USA TSA are generally acknowledged as the most incompetent group of employees ever and when given 'authoritah' over people go out of their way to make sure you bow and scrape to them at every opportunity. Their catch phrase when questioned is 'do you want to fly today?' and threats of arrest are common.

These are the types of people who will gravitate towards ID checking positions to the ultimate detriment of the travel industry.

As someone who has flown in the USA and spent hours in queues just to have my passport checked and BP smeared by one of these goons with attitude, I don't know why anybody would want to replicate that failed system here.

Oh and as demonstrated with monotonous regularity some of the worst criminals in the US airports are the TSA clerks.

Most of the TSA agents or TSO (Transportation security Officer) are low paid - circa $25K to $35K pa (plus a defined benefit plan = more or less get paid the same for life + health). They only really need a high school diploma.
Not to say they therefore are less deserving of respect....
I suppose there might be a bit of lording it over the rich
 
if not cross checked against a database of criminals/potential terrorists etc then its just security theatre rather than security checking.

This would be simple enough though. When you buy your ticket, your name is checked on the database (I'd be surprised if this did not already happen), then when you reach the airport, your ticket must match your ID. You are allowed to fly, easy. If not, go home, sad.
 
Today was really easy so no problems at all. We arrived at 7.10 am and made it to the First Class lounge in Sydney by 7.35 am.

Same experience for our 12pm arrival. I noticed a little bit more security action going through immigration, but other than that a normal SYD international experience for express and non-express passengers alike at this time of day. Flounge crowd level about the same as usual too.
 
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