Indonesia Air Asia flight QZ 8501 loses contact with ATC

[dajop]

On what is suggested the flights "load and trim" sheet, it has Adult PAX weighing in at 75kg.

That weight seems a little light, when you factor in average human weight and a carry on.]

Not if nearly all the passengers were Indonesian.

 

[jb747]

On what is suggested the flights "load and trim" sheet, it has Adult PAX weighing in at 75kg.

That weight seems a little light, when you factor in average human weight and a carry on.

Do these numbers change upon geographic location eg US would be closer to 90kg?

The average weight of an Australian is 78 kgs...so 75 for operations in Asia is pretty reasonable.

 

[Justinf]

The average weigh of an Australian is 78 kgs...so 75 for operations in Asia is pretty reasonable.

I'm doing my best to raise that average

 

[ozbeachbabe]

the reporting has been quite bad. Only a couple of news channels have correctly identified QZ as being an Air Asia affiliate, based in Indonesia. CNN is reporting it as Air Asia (Malaysia).

Then I turn to Fox... OMG. They've bought in someone to brief us on the 'safety' of the A320 and will explain to us 'if YOU!!! could be flying on one TODAY!!!' *shock* *gasp* *horror* (I kid you not, their reporting is actually taking those lines).

Re passenger manifest. I guess the relatives would already know by now. I guess there would be equal numbers of people wanting to make sure their loved one was not on board the aircraft. Publishing the manifest could help relieve concerns.

I prefer watching CNN to FOX but even their International Anchor Natalie Allen was cringeworthy in some of her comments such as "the plane went missing in the same area as MH370 didn't it" or referring to the Captains 6100 hours (on type or hours total not sure) as 61 hours & didn't even realise her mistake.

Thank goodness they crossed to their Beijing correspondent Will Ripley for the rest of the broadcast so we were spared from any more clangers from Natalie.

At least they've reconvened their aviation expert panel a la MH370 who can dispell any myths from the get go.

While publication of the manifests confirms to family that they're loved ones were definitely onboard the flight, it also enables the media to track down and contact their relatives before they've even had time to grieve privately.

I don't think there are anything suspicious with the premium seats either. Generally speaking, nobody pays for them in Asia, and they would only get allocated if necessary. Think of it like an op-up.

And while we don't know what the unusual route request was, I would assume it's to go around weather.

Everything so far appears to be a normal flight. However, terrorism cannot be ruled out, as there were evidences in the past that SIN was a possible target.

If the family of ten noshowed because they were unaware of the schedule change from 0730 to 0510 so it's quite concieveable they weren't the only people in that situation. There's also the chance that people who are aware of the 0510 departure time sleep in so I don't think the noshow factor is high given those circumstances.

Personally I don't think terrorism was an issue here.

 

[JohnK]

The average weigh of an Australian is 78 kgs...so 75 for operations in Asia is pretty reasonable.

Average or desired?

 

[jb747]

I prefer watching CNN to FOX but even their International Anchor Natalie Allen was cringeworthy in some of her comments such as "the plane went missing in the same area as MH370 didn't it" or referring to the Captains 6100 hours on type (or hours total not sure) reported 61 hours & didn't even realise her mistake. Thank goodness they crossed to their Beijing correspondent Will Ripley for the rest of the broadcast so we were spared from any more clangers from Natalie.

BBC says he had 20,000 hours with around 7,000 with Air Asia....

At least they've reconvened their aviation expert panel a la MH370 who can dispell any myths from the get go.

Their previous experts were most likely plumbers...

 

[Pushka]

The Asian programmes are rather less speculative thank goodness. Just reporting the facts.

 

[QF WP]

Just caught up with the whole thread and appreciate markis10 and jb747's input, given their respective experiences in ATC and piloting. Like many here, very sad that it happened. I hope they find wreckage soon so the relatives can grieve properly.

 

[artemis]

Thanks JB for your insight.

I've no doubt that one gets what one pays for when it comes to airlines, and it's one of the reasons I like Qantas (even with their recent spate of turnbacks! just kidding! )

However, how much does all this reporting/comms really cost? Surely it's much cheaper now than 10 or 15 years ago? I look at the ease with which comms are managed on deployment nowadays compared to when I was serving, and am amazed! So whilst I hated managing HF comms (damn sporadic e!) there are still multiple other ways to communicate. And with Elon Musk proposing mini-satellites to provide wifi for the whole planet (!!! yay!), surely in the next 10 years the costs and accessibility will shift again?

I guess you're right though in saying that the alacrity with which these changes are made will vary from region to region. Which is kinda strange to think, since the airline industry is held up to be this shining beacon of safety and the prime model for organisational/cultural change in the operating room! The Tenerife airport disaster is taught to all of us, early in our surgical training... I wonder what lessons we will derive from this.

It is however nice to see international cooperation in these disasters.

 

[moa999]

I think when MH370 went down the cost was pretty minimal on a per pax per flight basis, but like the old story of a US airline saving $$$s each year by reducing the number of olives on a salad, these numbers do add up in an intensely difficult industry to make a profit

 

[medhead]

some reports a fox news person blamed pilots being trained using the metric system.

 

[jb747]

They really should just shoot a media person each day, as an example to the others....

 

[JessicaTam]

Deleted...

 

[markis10]

They really should just shoot a media person each day, as an example to the others....

I think I agree with sentiment.

Not sure Peter Greste's family would agree, especially given the timing

 

[JessicaTam]

Point taken.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Not sure Peter Greste's family would agree, especially given the timing

They really should just shoot a media person each day, as an example to the others....

Whilst I agree there's some shoddy journalists about, the idea that all journalists are bad and therefore should be systematically shot is absurd. As with all industries there are people who are very good at their job and very bad at their job and a whole spectrum in between. The same is true of lawyers, dentists, doctors, even pilots (where I'd suggest the evidence points to jb747 being at the very very good end of the spectrum).

I would encourage those of you who read/hear/view bad journalism to try other media outlets. They're not all bad.

EDIT: and even very good media outlets have the odd bad journalist.

 

[Awesom Andy]

some reports a fox news person blamed pilots being trained using the metric system.

You would never know... they could be trying to reach 38000 metres...
(Of course not)

 

[jb747]

Whilst I agree there's some shoddy journalists about, the idea that all journalists are bad and therefore should be systematically shot is absurd. As with all industries there are people who are very good at their job and very bad at their job and a whole spectrum in between. The same is true of lawyers, dentists, doctors, even pilots (where I'd suggest the evidence points to jb747 being at the very very good end of the spectrum).

I would encourage those of you who read/hear/view bad journalism to try other media outlets. They're not all bad.

EDIT: and even very good media outlets have the odd bad journalist.

Well, just the bad ones then. Having said that, I don't recall ever seeing media reporting of an aircraft accident that was anything other than shoddy.

 

[burmans]

I would encourage those of you who read/hear/view bad journalism to try other media outlets. They're not all bad.

Don't want to take this too far OT but there is a difference between outlets and journalists. Personally I think journalists try to be good but really just don't get given the time they need to do the job properly anymore (and that's across most outlets). So personally agree with the idea that not all journalists are bad, bur find it harder to agree with the concept that some outlets are good when they are almost all following the same dumbed down model, i.e. dont give people enough time for research, publish stuff provided by 3rd parties without adequate fact checking (because its faster/cheaper), ... And those who try and buck this model, a la the ABC get their funding cut because perhaps they dig a bit hard and some in power prefer us not getting in-depth information.

 

[UP4014]

Well, just the bad ones then. Having said that, I don't recall ever seeing media reporting of an aircraft accident that was anything other than shoddy.

Likewise with train accidents.