Indonesia Air Asia flight QZ 8501 loses contact with ATC

[Captain Halliday]

Well, just the bad ones then. Having said that, I don't recall ever seeing media reporting of an aircraft accident that was anything other than shoddy.

Fair enough. So long as we can shoot the bad pilots too.

Now while jb and I celebrate free speech by agreeing to disagree, can someone move the conversation along before too many people get shot!

 

[jb747]

Fair enough. So long as we can shoot the bad pilots too.

I don't think you'll find many objections to that, although it does tend to be self correcting.

Back on the subject (both I guess), one of the items that has appeared in a number of outlets is reference to the aircraft ELT. Basically an automatic emergency beacon. It would be helpful if the aircraft were on the surface somewhere, but, not a lot of use if underwater.

 

[ozkid]

Is ACARS available on this plane? If so, any public info on what the last messages were?

 

[medhead]

Whilst I agree there's some shoddy journalists about, the idea that all journalists are bad and therefore should be systematically shot is absurd. As with all industries there are people who are very good at their job and very bad at their job and a whole spectrum in between. The same is true of lawyers, dentists, doctors, even pilots (where I'd suggest the evidence points to jb747 being at the very very good end of the spectrum).

I would encourage those of you who read/hear/view bad journalism to try other media outlets. They're not all bad.

EDIT: and even very good media outlets have the odd bad journalist.

Well, just the bad ones then. Having said that, I don't recall ever seeing media reporting of an aircraft accident that was anything other than shoddy.

Perhaps start with systematic and then review the system.

You would never know... they could be trying to reach 38000 metres...
(Of course not)

There is only one country that I'm aware of getting that mixed up with the metric system. No prizes for guessing (or knowing) which country flew a spaceship into a planet because of confusion about the metric system.

 

[JohnK]

I've no doubt that one gets what one pays for when it comes to airlines, and it's one of the reasons I like Qantas (even with their recent spate of turnbacks! just kidding! )

I need to fly SIN-CNX in 3 weeks time and was going to do it with Thai Air Asia via DMK.

The cost has been creeping up and is now the same as CX SIN-BKK and PG BKK-CNX.

Best to give Air Asia a miss after this incident.

 

[markis10]

Aussie P3 reporting possible debris in search area.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Best to give Air Asia a miss after this incident.

Ok so no MH and no FD (a completely separate airline to QZ). Good rational thinking

 

[mannej]

Ok so no MH and no FD (a completely separate airline to QZ). Good rational thinking

As you know each to their own.

 

[Melburnian1]

Pardon if I have missed this, because none of us have read everything published about the missing AirAsia plane, but I have not seen any comments by an oceanographer about the range of depths in the sea and features of the seabed in the area that is being searched.

markis10, you may be correct about 'possible debris' being reported (or indeed located) but didn't we hear that refrain many times earlier this year in relation to the MH incident, all of which information turned out to be mistaken?

Is there an element, however slight, of 'we want to be first' or 'national pride' with these sorts of reports by searchers of each nationality (including Australians)? In other words (and I am trying not to be too cynical, because those waiting at Changi or Surabaya are desperate for reliable information about their loved ones), is there at least a little 'grandstanding' that goes on?

Or is each possible sighting that turns out to be a mistake one that is easy to make given the vastness of any marine search area and how oceans have plastic and many other kinds of rubbish bobbing up and down?

What is the lowest altitude at which search planes generally fly out to maximise visibility of objects on land or at sea?

 

[JessicaTam]

Aussie P3 reporting possible debris in search area.

ABC news and 7.30 are reporting it, too. They are reporting that other search aircraft are heading to that area.

 

[RooFlyer]

Perhaps start with systematic and then review the system.

There is only one country that I'm aware of getting that mixed up with the metric system. No prizes for guessing (or knowing) which country flew a spaceship into a planet because of confusion about the metric system.

Canada? Its a country which is officially metric, but almost everything in commerce and engineering is quoted in imperial units. The USA is 'out-and-proud' with imperial. The Canuks? You really never know what system is being quoted. Ever heard of 'grains per cubic foot'? Neither had I until I saw an engineering specification for an air filter unit in Toronto.

Anyway, back OT for me ...

 

[amaroo]

Canada? Its a country which is officially metric, but almost everything in commerce and engineering is quoted in imperial units. The USA is 'out-and-proud' with imperial. The Canuks? You really never know what system is being quoted. Ever heard of 'grains per cubic foot'? Neither had I until I saw an engineering specification for an air filter unit in Toronto.

Anyway, back OT for me ...

IIRC it was LOTFAP ... NASA if I'm not mistaken.

CNN - Metric mishap caused loss of NASA orbiter - September 30, 1999

NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter because a Lockheed Martin engineering team used English units of measurement while the agency's team used the more conventional metric system for a key spacecraft operation, according to a review finding released Thursday.
The units mismatch prevented navigation information from transferring between the Mars Climate Orbiter spacecraft team in at Lockheed Martin in Denver and the flight team at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

 

[OATEK]

ABC news and 7.30 are reporting it, too. They are reporting that other search aircraft are heading to that area.

They are also reporting it is up to 1,000kms from the last known position.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Likewise with train accidents.

Likewise with medical mishaps

 

[jb747]

Canada? Its a country which is officially metric, but almost everything in commerce and engineering is quoted in imperial units. The USA is 'out-and-proud' with imperial. The Canuks? You really never know what system is being quoted. Ever heard of 'grains per cubic foot'? Neither had I until I saw an engineering specification for an air filter unit in Toronto.

A grain is an Imperial measure of weight....there are about 15,400 in a kg if I recall correctly.

 

[RooFlyer]

A grain is an Imperial measure of weight....there are about 15,400 in a kg if I recall correctly.

With due respect to the serious topic of this thread, I find that:

In both British Imperial and U.S. customary units, there are precisely 7,000 grains per avoirdupois pound, and 5,760 grains per troy pound or apothecaries pound

and

The grain is commonly used to measure the mass of bullets and propellants. The term also refers to a single particle of gunpowder, the size of which varies according to requirements.When calculating how much powder is needed for reloading, keep in mind 7000 grains = 1 pound, or 437.5 grains = 1 ounce. In archery, the grain is the standard unit used to weigh arrows.

In dentistry, gold foil, used as a material to restore teeth,is measured in grains.

In North America, the hardness of water is often measured in grains per US gallon (gpg) of calcium carbonate equivalents.Otherwise, water hardness is measured in the metric unit parts per million (ppm), equivalent to mg/L. One grain per US gallon is approximately 17.1 ppm.Soft water contains 1–4 gpg of calcium carbonate equivalents, while hard water contains 11–20 gpg

I rejected the engineer's spec using grains / cubic foot and pointed out the existence of the metric system in both Canada (his firm, and the source of the unit in question) and Australia (client).

 

[amaroo]

Not sure Peter Greste's family would agree, especially given the timing

Indeed. 2014 hasn't been a good year hopefully it ends better than the past 5 years

International Press Institute: Death Watch

 

[medhead]

Canada? Its a country which is officially metric, but almost everything in commerce and engineering is quoted in imperial units. The USA is 'out-and-proud' with imperial. The Canuks? You really never know what system is being quoted. Ever heard of 'grains per cubic foot'? Neither had I until I saw an engineering specification for an air filter unit in Toronto.

Anyway, back OT for me ...

One that is common in my field is "working level month" in relation to an airborne gas. I'm used to SI concentrations but Canadians and US counterparts like to stick to working level month.

Anyway, off topic.

 

[kpc]

Aussie P3 reporting possible debris in search area.

ABC news and 7.30 are reporting it, too. They are reporting that other search aircraft are heading to that area.

Already discounted....
AirAsia flight QZ8501: Object spotted in sea not from missing plane - Indonesia V-P Kalla - South-east Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

 

[JohnK]

Ok so no MH and no FD (a completely separate airline to QZ). Good rational thinking

It doesn't have to be rational. I don't want to push my luck.