International Upgrades - Improved Experience

[medhead]

I have requested upgrade for my flight tomorrow SYD-SIN QF31.

My upgrade was confirm last night but I did not receive an SMS.

Just logged on to my bookings and saw the seat change.

I wouldn't read too much into it yet. I had exactly the same earlier this year, seat change to J at about T-24, 12 hours later my seat had changed again to PE.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[dfcatch]

I wouldn't read too much into it yet. I had exactly the same earlier this year, seat change to J at about T-24, 12 hours later my seat had changed again to PE.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

What??

You got your upgrade and the were downgraded again?

 

[ozmille]

I wouldn't read too much into it yet. I had exactly the same earlier this year, seat change to J at about T-24, 12 hours later my seat had changed again to PE.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

That is harsh :!: :shock:

 

[Leumas]

I wouldn't read too much into it yet. I had exactly the same earlier this year, seat change to J at about T-24, 12 hours later my seat had changed again to PE.

I guess that's the advantage QF has with this lottery system - they can do whatever they want whenever they want.

Were you upgrading from PE to J or from Y?

 

[blackcat20]

I guess that's the advantage QF has with this lottery system - they can do whatever they want whenever they want.

On my last trip I requested an upgrade from Y to J; a few hours before the flight I was able to select a J seat but at the airport I was told I was in Y as the flight was full....

 

[Standby]

I guess that's the advantage QF has with this lottery system - they can do whatever they want whenever they want.

Were you upgrading from PE to J or from Y?

It could have been as simple as a late change of aircraft with varied prem cab config that caused the upgrade/downgrade eg Kangaroo & Pacific 747 fleets have different J cab sizes

 

[burrco]

Keep an eye out for changes to domestic Flight Upgrade Awards in 2012.

Have we heard anything about the plans for this? I thought the existing system works pretty well for domestic flights.

 

[Red Roo]

Have we heard anything about the plans for this? I thought the existing system works pretty well for domestic flights.

The existing system is not changing but we are making improvements to it. Currently domestic upgrade requests are confirmed immediately if available on the flight. If not, you have to keep coming back to re-request. We will be implementing what we do internationally and allowing you to register for an upgrade so you do not have to resubmit a request but rather we will let you know if successful.

I have requested upgrade for my flight tomorrow SYD-SIN QF31.

My upgrade was confirm last night but I did not receive an SMS.

Just logged on to my bookings and saw the seat change.

Previously upgrades were confirmed within 5 hours of travelling so a confirmed request last night means the new system is working . In regards to SMS, it is part of the new process that you may receive one (but not always duet operational reasons). Ensure that your mobile number is updated in your profile.....

I've been in this situation and the request did not cancel automatically when my points went below the amount required. Even at close to zero points balance.

In order to submit a flight upgrade request, you do need to have the required points balance in your account. The points balance may decrease over time (due to points redeeming on something else) and your request will not get cancelled. But when we go to process the upgrades (timeframe depends on tier), the required points balance must be in your account again. Otherwise, your upgrade request gets automatically cancelled.

Hope this helps clear a few things up.

Cheers,
Red Roo

 

[JohnK]

Was this a targeted email to those, perhaps, who request/have requested upgrades?

 

[AnonymousCoward]

So far the system is working well IME.

Requested two sets of upgrades (2 pax SIN-SYD J->F on QF32 22nd Dec 2011, and 2 pax MEL-SIN J->F on QF9 1st Jan 2012). In both cases both of us got an SMS about 47 hours before the flight (the period 48 hours prior until the upgrade was confirmed had the booking looking all haywire online). I suppose the benefit of having your upgrade to F confirmed earlier is that the First host has plenty of time to call you to arrange everything. Previously it has been hit and miss, with a call about 50% of the time, and not at other times.

 

[Limewood]

The existing system is not changing
Cheers,
Red Roo

That is a real pity, we all yearn for the day when QA will get rid off this annoying lottery system, not knowing what seat you'll be in internationally until shortly before departure can be very disappointing.

 

[JohnK]

That is a real pity, we all yearn for the day when QA will get rid off this annoying lottery system, not knowing what seat you'll be in internationally until shortly before departure can be very disappointing.

Please don't take this the wrong way but do you think Qantas should have confirmed international upgrades 12 months in advance? How about if there are people later on who want to pay a premium for that business class seat?

Personally I think it is a good system, even though it is a lottery, and you actually know the seat you will be sitting in when you purchase your ticket. Anything better, op-up or points upgrade, and it is a bonus.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Please don't take this the wrong way but do you think Qantas should have confirmed international upgrades 12 months in advance? How about if there are people later on who want to pay a premium for that business class seat?

Personally I think it is a good system, even though it is a lottery, and you actually know the seat you will be sitting in when you purchase your ticket. Anything better, op-up or points upgrade, and it is a bonus.

Of course they should offer confirmed upgrades 12 months out. Just in the same way they can offer a confirmed award seat!

Airlines constantly tell us they are highly experienced at yield management (just look at their wording about overbooked flights). They tell us they know exactly how many people will not show.

Using the same modelling they can tell out of 45 J seats how many will be sold, how many will be available for award seats and so on.

If they are going to set aside 5 award seats out of the 45 then those could just as easily be for upgrades as straight out awards.

They could also have a mixed system whereby some seats can be confirmed in advance, and once that threshold is met, the rest are request only.

 

[Timba-Jet]

Of course they should offer confirmed upgrades 12 months out. Just in the same way they can offer a confirmed award seat!

Airlines constantly tell us they are highly experienced at yield management (just look at their wording about overbooked flights). They tell us they know exactly how many people will not show.

Using the same modelling they can tell out of 45 J seats how many will be sold, how many will be available for award seats and so on.

If they are going to set aside 5 award seats out of the 45 then those could just as easily be for upgrades as straight out awards.

They could also have a mixed system whereby some seats can be confirmed in advance, and once that threshold is met, the rest are request only.

Very well stated.

Particularly the point on having a limited amount available for confirmed upgrades then the rest will be down to the lottery as is now.

 

[dfcatch]

Very well stated.

Particularly the point on having a limited amount available for confirmed upgrades then the rest will be down to the lottery as is now.

This is not rocket science.

It's called U class inventory and they already use it to capacity control confirmed upgrades/award seats on domestic, and they use to do the same internationally.

They still capacity control the award seats.

AND - they are now introducing a hybrid system for domestic.

They should:

1/ Allow confirmed upgrades on International in advance (capacity controlled).

2/ Have the lottery system as a backup for upgrade requests that are unsuccessful at time of request.

3/ Allow ALL booking classes to upgrade.

In other words - International system should be the same as the new domestic system. (ok - for the experts - without ODUs.... But otherwise the same).

Alternatively, you could restrict red e-deals (who can't currently upgrade int. ) to the lottery only, but higher classes can confirm with points at booking if U class available.

4/ As I have suggested previously - QF should provide x number of comp. upgrades for Platinum members as a status benefit - capacity controlled - like the NZ model.

Then you have a near perfect blend of revenue protection, good yield management, loyalty reward, and viable options for points redemption (also known as reducing QF's points liability).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This is not rocket science.

I agree... but rather than place demands on qantas I really think we all need to take a step back and appreciate they have had a very difficult year.

I'm sure red roo is working as hard as he can, and that while it is very easy for us to complain or provide suggestions or solutions, there are lots of things going on at the moment!

there are obviously very good reasons why qantas is working to the business model they are... we are not experts, and we are not working at qantas, so we should all accept they really are doing what they can to improve things as much as they can and that they have our best interests in mind.

qantas stated they have listened to our feedback - keep up the good work!

given the circumstances, I am prepared to cut qantas significant slack, they will be back to us when they can.

 

[Limewood]

The existing system is not changing but we are making improvements to it. Currently domestic upgrade requests are confirmed immediately if available on the flight.
Cheers,
Red Roo

So two sets of upgrades, domestic if available immediate and international still in the lottery system, that is ridiculous. Mr. Roo we are all screaming out for a fare go and even playing field with at least some confirmed Int. upgraded seats but QA are simply not listening.

 

[mannej]

So two sets of upgrades, domestic if available immediate and international still in the lottery system, that is ridiculous. Mr. Roo we are all screaming out for a fare go and even playing field with at least some confirmed Int. upgraded seats but QA are simply not listening.

Being pedantic here, but by changing the process, does it not show they did listen? They listened in changing, however decided to tweak the process instead of making wholesale changes.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Being pedantic here, but by changing the process, does it not show they did listen? They listened in changing, however decided to tweak the process instead of making wholesale changes.

no... they didn't listen at all. or at least their methodology was floored.

I could do a survey and ask... 'in regards to international upgrades, are you a) happy with the current system or b) would you like 24 hours notice'. clearly everyone would opt for b).

the question they didn't ask was whether people would like the ability to confirm upgrades at the time of booking.

saying that they responded to customer feedback is treating us, and all ffers as complete idiots. qantas thinks they can get away with it, and by and large they can... people have their golden handcuffs for P1, P or gold status. and many of those are paid by work travel. sure those people might not be able to get confirmed upgrades when they travel for leisure, but they don't really have the choice to shop around for another program that might suit them better.

(it's been very liberating since I lost platinum on qantas!! )

 

[dfcatch]

See I'm not bashing QF on this one - but I do think some minor improvements will create a win-win for both QF and FF's (which in turn is also a win for QF).

1/ I like the improvements to the domestic system - ie. that you can still confirm at time of request if U is available, you can still ODU at the lounge, but now you can also waitlist in between if no U available at time of request.

2/ I like the improvement to International - it's a step in the right direction.

I think QF know quite well that we would like confirmed international upgrades - they used to have them, and then they ditched them in favour of the lottery, obviously so that they could maintain the option of selling the seats at the last moment.

The thing is that confirmed upgrades and award seats both come from the same capacity controlled U bucket - that's how it used to work, and how it will work in the future (if confirmed upgrades come back). So one aspect, is that upgrades do compete with award availability. I have no issue with this.

3/ The third aspect is the restriction on sale fare classes to be non-upgradeable - I have an issue with this.

If retaining the lottery (ie. no confirmed upgrades) then ALL fare classes should be upgradeable. You can not expect customers to pay extra for an upgradeable fare class - just to miss out on the lottery.

That's why I suggested - that if QF still wish to restrict cheaper fares, then restrict the cheaper fares to the lottery and allow higher-class fares to have confirmed upgrades (subject to U class control). Higher-class fares can then have the lottey as a fall-back (just like with the new domestic system.

My feedback is not a whack at QF - just a sensible system forward that makes sense, allows FF's to redeem upgrades and awards reasonably, whilst maintaining maximum revenue protection for QF.

My limited complimentary upgrade suggestion (not mine really - NZ's) fits in the same vein.