International Upgrades - Improved Experience

[serfty]

...

They should:

1/ Allow confirmed upgrades on International in advance (capacity controlled).

2/ Have the lottery system as a backup for upgrade requests that are unsuccessful at time of request.

3/ Allow ALL booking classes to upgrade.

...

4/ As I have suggested previously - QF should provide x number of comp. upgrades for Platinum members as a status benefit - capacity controlled - like the NZ model. ...

Except for #2 you have described the Qantas international/domestic upgrade system as it was from around the turn of the century until May 2005.

Qantas changed this for a reason, almost certainly financial. I used to be able to identify which flights had "U" availability, book the cheapest revenue fare on them and upgrade with points or upgrade credits immediately.

I can still do this with AirNZ as A Gold Elite, but that has been much harder to earn than WP.

 

[nlagalle]

So two sets of upgrades, domestic if available immediate and international still in the lottery system, that is ridiculous. Mr. Roo we are all screaming out for a fare go and even playing field with at least some confirmed Int. upgraded seats but QA are simply not listening.

I can understand why they have 2 sets of upgrades. Have a look at how many domestic J seats (and subsequent U bucket) there are compared to International? I think that might have explain it.

 

[dfcatch]

Except for #2 you have described the Qantas international/domestic upgrade system as it was from around the turn of the century until May 2005.

Qantas changed this for a reason, almost certainly financial. I used to be able to identify which flights had "U" availability, book the cheapest revenue fare on them and upgrade with points or upgrade credits immediately.

I can still do this with AirNZ as A Gold Elite, but that has been much harder to earn than WP.

Yes - I liked the upgrade credits too

I fully understand QF's commercial needs, which is why I have suggested alternate options to improve the system that don't compromise on their core requirement. Namely - tight capacity controls, or simply lifting the restriction on cheaper fare classes.

I for one - if I'm flying whY - I won't pay extra for an "upgradeable" fare just to "compete" in the lottery and possibly lose out. So QF are in fact encouraging me to only pay for the cheapest fare available.

Now - if I knew I could redeem points for a confirmed upgrade (rather than just play the lottery), then I would be willing to pay for a higher whY fare to be able to do so.

So there are in fact additional revenue opportunities for QF if they structure it right.

 

[pshepvic]

I agree... but rather than place demands on qantas I really think we all need to take a step back and appreciate they have had a very difficult year.
...
there are obviously very good reasons why qantas is working to the business model they are... we are not experts, and we are not working at qantas, so we should all accept they really are doing what they can to improve things as much as they can and that they have our best interests in mind.
...
given the circumstances, I am prepared to cut qantas significant slack, they will be back to us when they can.

Qantas' "difficult year" was brought on by their own actions so I have no sympathy. I don't expect them to reply - there is no obligation to do so. However I do think the upgrade system is significantly flawed, and the pre-2005 system was much better.

As far as far as us not being "experts", I would disagree. On this forum are the most frequent flyers in the country, who have a wealth of knowledge about the industry and Qantas. I'd say the combined knowledge here would be greater than that of Qantas senior management, judging by their performance in recent years. People here don't just want benefits, they also want to see the airline industry in Australia succeed, and I think we all have great ideas as to how that could happen. I think the airlines can learn a lot from us - there certainly has been one airline listening a lot more in recent times, and it's not Qantas. Don't get me wrong, Virgin have their fair share of areas for improvement, but have responded a lot more to feedback from this forum.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2

 

[samiam]

I for one - if I'm flying whY - I won't pay extra for an "upgradeable" fare just to "compete" in the lottery and possibly lose out. So QF are in fact encouraging me to only pay for the cheapest fare available.

From a completely different perspective, the same system provides an incentive for others to pay for J or F seats at the time of booking, so as not to miss out, and therefore pay for a more expensive fare and lock in future revenue.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Qantas' "difficult year" was brought on by their own actions so I have no sympathy. I don't expect them to reply - there is no obligation to do so. However I do think the upgrade system is significantly flawed, and the pre-2005 system was much better.

As far as far as us not being "experts", I would disagree. On this forum are the most frequent flyers in the country, who have a wealth of knowledge about the industry and Qantas. I'd say the combined knowledge here would be greater than that of Qantas senior management, judging by their performance in recent years. People here don't just want benefits, they also want to see the airline industry in Australia succeed, and I think we all have great ideas as to how that could happen. I think the airlines can learn a lot from us - there certainly has been one airline listening a lot more in recent times, and it's not Qantas. Don't get me wrong, Virgin have their fair share of areas for improvement, but have responded a lot more to feedback from this forum.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2

don't worry... I was being facetious.

 

[dfcatch]

From a completely different perspective, the same system provides an incentive for others to pay for J or F seats at the time of booking, so as not to miss out, and therefore pay for a more expensive fare and lock in future revenue.

1/ As a self funded flyer - I'm only rarely paying for a premium cabin.

My upgrade/award seat is coming out of leftovers/tightly-controlled-inventory that the yield management gods don't believe they will sell, and are happy to receive point-revenue for rather than go empty.

2/ The people you talk about are simply going to redeem their points at time of booking and take the U class seat without worrying about upgrade options.

Or, their employer has a whY only policy which is why they are not in J to begin with.

Or, eventually their points run out, and they have to cough up the cash if they wish to continue to fly in premium cabins.

Remember - just like current award seats, it all comes down to capacity control.

Just like on the current domestic system...... No different.

One other issue is that there are other airlines out there, and if QF makes it too hard for FFs to redeem/upgrade, eventually many will jump ship (depending who who services their respective destinations).

 

[Berlin]

Or, their employer has a whY only policy which is why they are not in J to begin with.

Good point- that is what my company has in Domestic: Always QF, always the cheapest available Eco fare. Now- of course, to the savy ones, that offers lots of opportunity, i.e. looking for times of the day (mostly rush hour which is easy to argue the time you "HAVE" to go) when there's no saver fare available so you get on the cheapest flex fare which allows you to upgrade to J with less points than from a Discount Eco fare. I'm quite happy with winning the lotterie roughly every second flight

 

[dfcatch]

Oh and disclaimer:

I have been successful on every upgrade (all as NB or PS) I've requested since the lottery came in.

Only lost a J to F lottery request because I burned all my points the week prior on an F transatlantic

Also - on my current flying patterns, I actually benefit more from the current system (by premium awards not being used by upgrades - hence depleting availability).

But that doesn't stop me believing in improvements to the system

 

[Standby]

Yes - I liked the upgrade credits too

I fully understand QF's commercial needs, which is why I have suggested alternate options to improve the system that don't compromise on their core requirement. Namely - tight capacity controls, or simply lifting the restriction on cheaper fare classes.

I for one - if I'm flying whY - I won't pay extra for an "upgradeable" fare just to "compete" in the lottery and possibly lose out. So QF are in fact encouraging me to only pay for the cheapest fare available.

Now - if I knew I could redeem points for a confirmed upgrade (rather than just play the lottery), then I would be willing to pay for a higher whY fare to be able to do so.

So there are in fact additional revenue opportunities for QF if they structure it right.

Whilst paying for a higher fare and getting a confirmed upgrade works well for you (and possibly better revenue to QF in your instance) I'd suggest the risk of those willing to pay ,for even a disc J fare ,will downtrade to your option if it were avail. Thats an even greater Rev hit to QF. And actually I dont like the term lottery as not every has an even chance. the higher the tier the more likely you get it.
Since midyear changes on Dom I find myself 'Rewarding me" on work trips more where we have BFOD policy especially from PER.Also currently 2 for 2 on Int Y-J upgrades in the past 3months so the past 6mths I give whatever is happening ,even as a lowly Gold FF a thumbs up

 

[trippin_the_rift]

J -> F upgrade came through successfully 48 hours out. Got the text message.

Much better than on the day and has given me time to select a good seat!

 

[dfcatch]

Whilst paying for a higher fare and getting a confirmed upgrade works well for you (and possibly better revenue to QF in your instance) I'd suggest the risk of those willing to pay ,for even a disc J fare ,will downtrade to your option if it were avail. Thats an even greater Rev hit to QF. And actually I dont like the term lottery as not every has an even chance. the higher the tier the more likely you get it.
Since midyear changes on Dom I find myself 'Rewarding me" on work trips more where we have BFOD policy especially from PER.Also currently 2 for 2 on Int Y-J upgrades in the past 3months so the past 6mths I give whatever is happening ,even as a lowly Gold FF a thumbs up

But with your BFOD policy - you wouldn't be paying for a J ticket if you couldn't upgrade - so no revenue opportunity cost for QF there.

Ultimately it's a commercial modelling decision, but with the right capacity controls - there is no reason why it can't be a win win for everyone.

 

[Leumas]

This idea may be mentioned already or mentioned in a similar form.

What are your thoughts on paying a premium on confirmed upgrade? Pay x points to use the lottery system or pay x+y points to get a confirmed upgrade, subject to availability at the time.

If it's me, I'm willing to pay x+10%.

Personally, I like the old UC system better. The new changes about SMS is just fluff, it doesn't tackle the real issue.

 

[dfcatch]

This idea may be mentioned already or mentioned in a similar form.

What are your thoughts on paying a premium on confirmed upgrade? Pay x points to use the lottery system or pay x+y points to get a confirmed upgrade, subject to availability at the time.

If it's me, I'm willing to pay x+10%.

Personally, I like the old UC system better. The new changes about SMS is just fluff, it doesn't tackle the real issue.

I don't know, I'd have to think about it. I mean there are many issues here, including whether "Upgrades" should have a different inventory control to "Awards". In the old days, and for domestic, they are both controlled by "U" availability, so allowing confirmed upgrades eats into awards for example.

I always look at transpacifics here, when skybeds were launched, upgrades from Y to J went from 40,000 to 72,000 for a one-way upgrade (amongst other program changes). One would probably argue that the value of the J product increased as well.

In the short term, I feel the low-hanging fruit for QF is to either:

a/ Allow confirmed upgrades for non-sale fare classes; or

b/ Allow all fare classes to participate in the lottery.

The current system simply doesn't make sense, and IMHO, you shouldn't expect pax to pay more for an upgradeable fare - and then have no guarantees.

The other questions are ones for QF to look at more deeply and apply to their RM models (which of course we don't have access to).

But given they have to magic power to capacity control as they see fit - I truly believe that there are easy improvements to the system that can be made that at least give "some" additional access/benefit to FFs, whilst maintaining revenue for QF.

The latest improvements, in which they have stated their goal to process upgrades right up until the last minute, to minimise empty premium seats, shows that they are keen to get some revenue from as many seats as possible - whether cash or points.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

not sure why this should be so difficult??? (paying more for confirmed upgrades etc)

x number of seats per flight in biz class, they should be available for either straight out award or for upgrade. let the passenger decide (currently applies to domestic).

the rest of the seats are odu under current system (plats advised up to 7 days, the rest 24 hours etc)

why should we pay more to confirm the upgrade at time of booking when you could get an award seat?

the suggestion that having confirmed upgrades might detract from revenue? I don't see how. that person could get an outright award. the award seat is the award seat is the award seat... how that's filled should be up to passenger choice.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I happen to like the current system. It is biased towards high tier flyers, and also allows those who book close to departure to have an even chance of getting an upgrade.

Leisure travellers have the luxury of booking 3 or 6 or 12 months out. Travelling for work, one might not. The current system caters for the latter group.

 

[pshepvic]

don't worry... I was being facetious.

Sorry didn't read the tone there - was a little too subtle! Maybe a would have helped me out! lol

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2

 

[pshepvic]

Well, the new process has worked for me - sort of!

Woke up this morning and logged in to see seats 3A and 5K allocated on the A380 for LAX-MEL tonight. Upgrade status still says "requested" but class now shows as First (P). No text message though.

So the upgrade is showing >12 hours ahead (not sure what time it changed). As long as they don't change the seating back to J!!


Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly app

 

[dfcatch]

Well, the new process has worked for me - sort of!

Woke up this morning and logged in to see seats 3A and 5K allocated on the A380 for LAX-MEL tonight. Upgrade status still says "requested" but class now shows as First (P). No text message though.

So the upgrade is showing >12 hours ahead (not sure what time it changed). As long as they don't change the seating back to J!!


Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly app

I wouldn't call that the new process - that's how it always worked for me.

Earlier in the process or late in the process would be the new system working.

 

[pshepvic]

I wouldn't call that the new process - that's how it always worked for me.

Earlier in the process or late in the process would be the new system working.

But the old system only showed 5 hours from departure (unless someone at the airport was bored) - this was showing >12 hours out (with the new system being UP TO 48 hours before for WPs). The only thing missing is the SMS - although they may have sent it to a different number than the one I have with me.


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