Is Qantas Actually Listening?

[mickeyc747]

I love it when the little people take a stand but has this worked for anyone in the past? Unless you are a major corporation with a huge travel budget, I would wonder if Qantas would take much notice of 1 person not flying for 3 months (no disrespect meant in that comment, you obviously spend a lot of time in the air with them and warrant a response for the issues you raised)

I suspect your right and no disrespect taken from your comments, but as I said its my stance, but if every person that was disgruntled took away just one flying sector from them they make take notice.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Passengers only have perhaps 20 or 30 mins, no time to waste spending 10 mins waiting for a sandwich toaster. Surprised QF didn't understand this when introduced.

Matt

Or maybe they did understand? Minimum time and queuing = less food consumed?

 

[mickeyc747]

I love it when the little people take a stand but has this worked for anyone in the past? Unless you are a major corporation with a huge travel budget, I would wonder if Qantas would take much notice of 1 person not flying for 3 months (no disrespect meant in that comment, you obviously spend a lot of time in the air with them and warrant a response for the issues you raised)

Here is the response from Red Roo

Hi mickeyc747

Thanks for keeping in touch.

I appreciate you taking the time to detail your personal circumstances.

Once again, I've passed your feedback on to the Platinum One team for their reference.

Regards,

(Red Roo)

 

[medhead]

Passengers only have perhaps 20 or 30 mins, no time to waste spending 10 mins waiting for a sandwich toaster. Surprised QF didn't understand this when introduced.

Matt

I think it is a definite service improvement. Whether by individual staff initiative in Adelaide, or broader company direction it was very well appreciated and is much better than the comparable service offering.

 

[dfcatch]

QF are listening - but it's like talking English to a hedgehog.

We expect that QF Loyalty is about getting bums on seats across the Group (inc. JQ).

QF Loyalty don't look it at it like that. All QF Loyalty see is "Points aren't free".

It really is as simple as that.

Fact is the changes won't be reversed. Even if QF were to privately concede that they handled it poorly.

It's the Great Wakeup Call for all of us.

PrincessFiona as always sums it up perfectly...

I will hit LTG in the next 12 months before my P1 expires. I "may" continue to hold WP for a little while longer, depending on my International flying - but I have already switched most of my domestic to BFOD (ie. VA). (But I will admit, the latest changes don't overly influence that - it was the ceding of routes to JQ that did that. The new changes just cement it).

QF will continue to be my International carrier of choice. But should VA decide to enter the real world and join *A - that will likely change the situation.

I don't care what VA and their fanbois reckon - "partnerships" are NOT the same as an Alliance and they are never as streamlined as my experience with OW is (Or other *A travel for that matter).


QF will be forced at some point to do something to genuinely improve (enhance) the program to offset these latest changes - but they will wait until the new equilibrium appears.

 

[Grooba]

QF will continue to be my International carrier of choice. But should VA decide to enter the real world and join *A - that will likely change the situation.

I don't care what VA and their fanbois reckon - "partnerships" are NOT the same as an Alliance and they are never as streamlined as my experience with OW is (Or other *A travel for that matter).

Couldn't agree more. If this does happen and VA eventually become a fully fledged *A member then absolutely the tide will turn for myself and many others I would think.

 

[wandering_fred]

I suspect one of the things that destroyed QF PER-SIN was in the last year a J* (3k) flight was scheduled at almost the same time. Perhaps the cheaper fare classes on QF aren't terribly profitable, but they do serve to fill the last few seats on the plane. And three OW partners (BA JL AY) had code shares on the QF flights for the route. Which I suspect went a long way to filling the QF flights as well.

I recently returned from a USA trip (via SIN as I try to avoid SYD and besides SE Asia fares are less expensive) and the SIN-MEL had a corresponding J* flight leaving within a few minutes of the QF flight. While I can understand having the J* flights, I cannot understand running them in the same time window as QF flights. Especially when flight frequency is one of QF's competitors main selling points.

Is the QF Int management team listening? Likely, but the message being heard may not be one which is compatible with the directions the team have been given by QF group management.

1. Where are the Y+ seats MEL/SYD-SIN/HKG/NRT? Other airlines (when they do not price gouge) find the cabin VERY profitable because it fills up (at least for overnight flights).
2. Where is the new configuration 737 for PER-SIN? 11+ hours a day aircraft utilization at reasonable passenger loads should be profitable. Especially given OW partner demand.
3. Where is the QF A330 for PER-DXB?

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[QF WP]

Perhaps we all need to do what mickeyc747 did (advise QFF Loyalty), so they actually know what revenue they are missing and the reasons why. Then with a deluge of actual facts, then theymay see the outcome from their decisions.

I am in the same position as Princess Fiona (was accelerating my way to QF Gold), but since I succumbed to VA's tempations (status matched SG in August 2011), I have found that the grass is (more often than not) greener on the other side. BFOD and status on both carriers help me justify flying one way QF and the other VA. Where it is a mixed carrier return, the Lounge personnel also help me decide to fly outbound VA and return QF (almost exclusively). The loss of the BNE QF Lounge Manager spelt the death knell of my decision to use QF on the outbound, but QF felt they needed to save money...so I had a decision to make as well.

 

[Himeno]

While I can understand having the J* flights, I cannot understand running them in the same time window as QF flights. Especially when flight frequency is one of QF's competitors main selling points.

QF seems to like having many flights in a narrow time period between the same ports, and it's rare that they have more then 1 flight/day on the same route. Other then LAX-SYD, SIN-SYD and LHR-DXB, I can't think of any mid-long haul routes with more then 1 QF flight. Meanwhile, many of their competitors are running 3 or more flights/day.
If QF ever gets those 50 787s, they could run 2 flights/day between MEL and SYD to many cities in Asia (eg NRT, SIN, KUL, HKG, PVG, BKK and/or BOM). They could also make use of Australia's location and make a hub in SYD for Asia > South America flights. Both growing markets, both with increasing travel.

1. Where are the Y+ seats MEL/SYD-SIN/HKG/NRT? Other airlines (when they do not price gouge) find the cabin VERY profitable because it fills up (at least for overnight flights).

Agreed. I can't understand why the upcoming A330 refit won't have Y+. Many people want Y+, it sells well on other other airlines in/out of Australia and many airlines that don't have it are adding some form of it. If I have the choice of MEL-HKG, Y+ on CX or Y on QF, I'm taking CX. If QF had it on their A330's, I'd take QF.

 

[OATEK]

Perhaps we all need to do what mickeyc747 did (advise QFF Loyalty), so they actually know what revenue they are missing and the reasons why. Then with a deluge of actual facts, then theymay see the outcome from their decisions.
<snip>

Ok, mine is not a big contribution to the QF bottom line, but I have taken up your challenge and sent my concerns via feedback. So you know what I said, here is the text:

"As a member of the Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) community I have spent some time blogging concerns with recent changes to QF International, and after some urging by other members have decided to share some of my concerns directly with you.

As you will see from my past booking history I have used QF consistently in recent years for annual overseas trips, which until last year were generally in Economy. However, with urging from other AFF members my overseas travel in 2013 was in Business with QF, to London via Dubai. While I enjoy the quality of aircraft, flight crew and service with QF, I do not have any interest in flying via the middle east, preferring Asian connections (as per old QF1/2, QF31/32 and 127/128/129/130). I have in the past shared some of my travel with other OneWorld partners, especially Cathay Pacific, because Honk Kong is my Asian hub of choice. With QF's withdrawal of flights to Europe via Asia I have had to reassess my choice of airline, and for the coming year have already booked a European return trip (for 2) in Business class with another OneWorld carrier via Asia.

On top of the QF decision to fly via Dubai only, I now find you are substantially reducing the points and status credits for OneWorld partner travel. Where I might have been able to qualify for Gold QFF, I have now been relegated to hopefully retaining silver. I feel that I have been penalised for my preference for flights via Asia, and on routes that QF once did but now refuses to service. Given this state of affairs, I feel the loyalty I have shown to QF both domestically and internationally in recent years is worth very little. This will influence both my International and Domestic travel, as I have already begun to use VA more regularly domestically given the downgrade in service and points earn on QF. Most of my limited domestic business flying is now Best-fare-of-the-Day based.

I appreciate that in the grand scheme of things that my annual flight expenditure of $15-20K is not a big contribution to QF's coffers, but it is a considerable amount for me and I want to direct it where it gives me the greatest enjoyment. My hope is that if you receive enough negative feedback from formerly loyal customers you may re-think the changes you have made. As you will see in my current bookings the majority of that spend in the next 12 months is directed to other OneWorld carriers, and I expect that this will remain the case while ever QF chooses to penalise me for preferring flights via Asia."

 

[UP4014]

I think it is a definite service improvement. Whether by individual staff initiative in Adelaide, or broader company direction it was very well appreciated and is much better than the comparable service offering.

I think it was a downgrade and not appreciated by the folks I talk with.

 

[wandering_fred]

...
Agreed. I can't understand why the upcoming A330 refit won't have Y+. Many people want Y+, it sells well on other other airlines in/out of Australia and many airlines that don't have it are adding some form of it. If I have the choice of MEL-HKG, Y+ on CX or Y on QF, I'm taking CX. If QF had it on their A330's, I'd take QF.

Interestingly, PER-HKG is one of the routes that CX is trialing bidding for upgrades. Should I tell QFF that it is a pity I only have a choice of CX and CX on that route? :shock: And the discussion of the announcement of this new CX program had quite a response. Not all that positive - except for Y--> PEY. Note: Yes I did fly QF PER-HKG-PER, once upon a time. Actually, more than once.

In any case, I think CX tried to price PEY out of Australia as a seriously premium class, unlike some other markets (exUSA comes to mind). Maybe we will see some price adjustments.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[Mr_Orange]

Agreed. I can't understand why the upcoming A330 refit won't have Y+. Many people want Y+, it sells well on other other airlines in/out of Australia and many airlines that don't have it are adding some form of it. If I have the choice of MEL-HKG, Y+ on CX or Y on QF, I'm taking CX. If QF had it on their A330's, I'd take QF.

Couldn't agree more. As QF downgrade more and more of their routes I am going to be forced to use other carriers and CX is the likely candidate with BA as a backup.

 

[boomy]

I just read the Greek Airlines Short cut. Have written to Lufthansa asking for a status match. Anybody got experience with LH? They seem to be not keen on matching?

Sorry Qantas but your not making it easy.

TK do *G status match to QF WP.

 

[Himeno]

The current seat configs on Qantas' A330s are
333 - 30J 267Y
332 - 36J 199Y (International), 36J 268Y (Domestic)

The CX "33G" has 39J 28W 175Y.

I see no reason why QF can't put W on the 330's. They could do a similar layout to CX with something like 30J 28W 186Y on the 333s and 30J 20W 170Y on the 332s. They likely don't want W on the 330s because they don't think they'd be able to use a W cabin on domestic flights. They could just use the W cabin for status pax booked in Y or sell them for extra, as they already do with exit rows on long haul flights, JL does with "Class J" on domestic Japan flights and the US airlines do with their versions of Y+.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The current seat configs on Qantas' A330s are
333 - 30J 267Y
332 - 36J 199Y (International), 36J 268Y (Domestic)

The CX "33G" has 39J 28W 175Y.

I see no reason why QF can't put W on the 330's. They could do a similar layout to CX with something like 30J 28W 186Y on the 333s and 30J 20W 170Y on the 332s. They likely don't want W on the 330s because they don't think they'd be able to use a W cabin on domestic flights. They could just use the W cabin for status pax booked in Y or sell them for extra, as they already do with exit rows on long haul flights, JL does with "Class J" on domestic Japan flights and the US airlines do with their versions of Y+.

Interesting - if you crunch the numbers, based on $4000 for business class, $1700 for premium economy and $900 for economy: both the higher density QF flight and lower density CX flight return almost the same revenue for an A330 (CX taxes the edge with about $1000 more, assuming the flight is full in all classes).

 

[katiebell]

Agreed. I can't understand why the upcoming A330 refit won't have Y+. Many people want Y+, it sells well on other other airlines in/out of Australia and many airlines that don't have it are adding some form of it. If I have the choice of MEL-HKG, Y+ on CX or Y on QF, I'm taking CX. If QF had it on their A330's, I'd take QF.

Because EK don't have Y+ & AJ said he would always choose the better of the QF & EK options (this enhancement translates as we do what ever EK do)

 

[hossein_au]

Because EK don't have Y+ & AJ said he would always choose the better of the QF & EK options (this enhancement translates as we do what ever EK do)

Subtle but huge correction: ...we do what ever EK wants us to do

 

[medhead]

I think it was a downgrade and not appreciated by the folks I talk with.

I'm not talking about the introduction of toasting machines. The service improvement is to make the toasted sandwiches and serve them around the lounge. The first time I've seen or heard of such service was in the Adelaide Qantas club yesterday. Sure toasting machines might be a downgrade, but the service I'm talking about is a definite improvement over that.

 

[Mr_Orange]

I like the sandwich toasters and am more than happy to make up my own sandwich for toasting. I don't see why you all think they are a downgrade.... downgrade from what? Not having a sandwich toaster?