Is the QFF program really a 'frequent flyer' program???

[AnonymousCoward]

Howdy,

My question is why are frequent flyers not rewarded for their loyalty

You are rewarded - you are been accorded Gold status

as opposed to those that fly a couple of long haul business class segments and are catapulted to Platinum?

QANTAS chooses to reward people who make the company money. Frequent Flyers, such as yourself, make the company some money and they give you status according.

People who fly on very expensive, premium fares, make the company even more money, and are thus rewarded more.

HOWEVER

To get to platinum flying SYD-SIN would be 6x return flights in Busines class. That's still 48,000 miles, or nearly 50 return SYD-MEL flights. So probably more than you are flying. Not to mention $20,000-$25,000 in revenue.

I think it is a very unfair system and loyal customers of Qantas should be rewarded appropriately.

QANTAS is about making money - not about giving things away for free. To think otherwise would be completely naive.

What are your thoughts? I might be way off track here in my thinking. I have written to Alan Joyce with no response, although Qantas Executive Relations has responded stating that '...unfortunately we are unable to fulfill your request' although they have stated that they can see my point and agree that it this part of the program is not overly transparent. I am about to write to norris Carter and see what he says...


Cheers.

The rules are quite clearly spelt out online, and in the terms and conditions of the QFF program that you should have received from QANTAS when you joined...

If you don't like them, consider joining another program.

Don't expect QANTAS to change them just because you don't like them.

 

[ric_melb]

I think the OP is being well rewarded for the flights he takes, which as he points out are mainly Red E-Deals. There is not much profit in such flights for Qantas.
However in 62 flights he has scored at least 1000 points per flight, plus achieved Gold Status. This gives him extra status points on some flights, priority check in, and free membership of Qantas Club. With 62 flights a year Qantas Club must be worth a great deal.

He seems disappointed he has not achieved Platinum Status. The reality is Platinum is the top status and usually only achieved by those travelling on some Business Class flights. It reflects dollars spent on airfares.

Time for him to align his expectations with reality.

 

[moa999]

oh and by the way. Welcome to AFF

 

[japansuki]

Status credits are a good measure of your loyalty and value to the airline - and they reward accordingly. The more SC's you earn, the more rewards you get.

Goodness, look at the interest I have stirred!!

Luckily for me I can choose which domestic airline i want to fly (within cost constraints of course . As a domestic traveller I choose Qantas because prior to becoming gold I was a paying Qantas Club member, so naturally I would use Qantas to take advantage of my paid membership. Being gold really doesn't do too much else...I get club membership which i already had, priority seating and priority check in - which I could get anyway just by going up to the counter and asking in the club. I have also received upgrades and so on just by asking with a smile.

My point (and I am only guessing here) is that many Business-Class travellers are flying business class due to their company policy which allows them to fly that fare for international trips. In otherwords, these travellers are being 'rewarded' by their company's travel policy - not because they happen to be loyal to Qantas.

I guess it is how one defines the term 'loyalty' in 'loyalty programs'.....

 

[japansuki]

Thank you for your feedback. BTW - I am not naive - far from it

I think you have interpreted what I am saying the wrong way - that's OK. Let me explain.

I am questioning the term 'Frequent Flyer' - is a person who travels 60+ flights on a lower class fare short haul not considered more of a 'frequent' flyer then a person who flies 3 or 4 return flights on a higher fare basis long haul?

I am not looking at the 'business sense' nor how profitable I am or am not for Qantas. I am looking at the advertising and marketing emails I get sent to me, the editorials from the CEO in the inflight magazine, and the exciting promises for those that fly more freqently sent to me by Norris Carter - General Manager Group Loyalty, that entices me to fly more with Qantas to reap the wonderful benefits of being a Platinum FF.

I am questioning the terminology of the program. I believe (and again it is just my opinion {no need for nasty replies }) that maybe it could be called a 'Status Credit' program or similar. As ric_melb wrote, '..it reflects dollars spent on airfares' - not frqency of flights. It is ambiguous and not overly transparent.


Yes, I did read the T&Cs many years ago when I joined and paid my membership fee.

Yes, I am a member of other airline programs.

Yes, I do enjoy flying Qantas - the service has improved (in the air) dramatically and yes the clubs are clean, comfortable, with reasonably good food and shower facilities.

But...is it so terrible to want more? To yearn for higher status? That is what being a member of a program like this is all about. Society is always telling us 'bigger', 'better', 'more' - and yes, I want more !

Anyway, thanks again for your feedback - you guys at AFF are heavy duty

 

[medhead]

Status credits are a good measure of your loyalty and value to the airline - and they reward accordingly. The more SC's you earn, the more rewards you get.

Goodness, look at the interest I have stirred!!

Luckily for me I can choose which domestic airline i want to fly (within cost constraints of course . As a domestic traveller I choose Qantas because prior to becoming gold I was a paying Qantas Club member, so naturally I would use Qantas to take advantage of my paid membership. Being gold really doesn't do too much else...I get club membership which i already had, priority seating and priority check in - which I could get anyway just by going up to the counter and asking in the club. I have also received upgrades and so on just by asking with a smile.

My point (and I am only guessing here) is that many Business-Class travellers are flying business class due to their company policy which allows them to fly that fare for international trips. In otherwords, these travellers are being 'rewarded' by their company's travel policy - not because they happen to be loyal to Qantas.

I guess it is how one defines the term 'loyalty' in 'loyalty programs'.....

You are kind of making points that have been discussed a lot here, for example company paid travel versus private paid travel. As mentioned by thewinchester status credits are the mention that Qantas is supposedly using to equalise out different flying patterns into value to Qantas. For that reason I'm not convinced that International J flying should be considered to be more valuable than domestic Y flying. Clearly it can be demonstrated that the J flyer is giving qantas more money. But the fact remains that is the standard that Qantas has set. You might have noticed all the discussion of the recent program changes and it would seem that Qantas are no longer happy with the status qualification requirements they have set. The answer appears to be to disadvantage some platinums versus oterh paltinums. Not good.

You will probably also see that your paid Qantas Club membership has been devalued as well. As someone who has been a member since the 1990s I find this very disappointing. It used to be that only paid Qantas club members got access, then they extended it to statused people and now we see that the paid members who made the club to start with are slowly being forced out. I guess that is just how things have panned out.

Oh this is only my opinion, I'm probably just as wrong as everyone else.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Thank you for your feedback. BTW - I am not naive - far from it
...
I am questioning the term 'Frequent Flyer' - is a person who travels 60+ flights on a lower class fare short haul not considered more of a 'frequent' flyer then a person who flies 3 or 4 return flights on a higher fare basis long haul?

QANTAS call it a 'frequent flyer' program for marketing reasons. It would be hard to sell this as a 'people who make us the most profit' program. To think otherwise is naive.

As mentioned, 3-4 return long haul business class flights is still flying a lot of miles if you want to achieve Platinum.

For your Gold status, you can do 35 return SYD-MEL trips for a total flown 31,500 miles and approximate cost of $10,500 ($300 return)

To acheive the same flying PE SYD-SIN would require 6 return trips at 48,000 miles and approximate cost of $15,000 ($2500 return)

I don't know why you think that someone who flies fewer miles, and at lower cost, is somehow entitled to be treated better?

I am not looking at the 'business sense' nor how profitable I am or am not for Qantas. I am looking at the advertising and marketing emails I get sent to me, ...

Do you believe all marketing you come across? That Lynx deoderant makes you irresitably attractive to women? That Pure Blonde beer comes from some magical place?

But...is it so terrible to want more? To yearn for higher status?

It's not. But writing to Alan Joyce is a waste of your time. Of course, you are free to waste it however you want.

 

[samh004]

But...is it so terrible to want more? To yearn for higher status? That is what being a member of a program like this is all about. Society is always telling us 'bigger', 'better', 'more' - and yes, I want more !

You just have to work out the best way to get there, the loop holes that are found quite often on this site, or just little tips and tricks. JASA’s, FASA’s, LAN, go to NAN

 

[Fantic125]

Howdy,


That's a total of 70 flights in one calender year. An average of 1 flight a week is pretty freqent, I would say. I am so close yet still so far off:


Status credits earned from 01 Dec 2009: 950
Additional Status credits required by 30 Nov 2010 to attain Platinum: 450


My question is why are frequent flyers not rewarded for their loyalty as opposed to those that fly a couple of long haul business class segments and are catapulted to Platinum?

Cheers.

Hi Japansuki,

I understand your train of thought; last QF membership year I travelled 116,854 miles over 73 segments with Qantas and attained only 1,100 Status Credits.

This calendar year I will see a total of 230,000 miles over 92 segments.

I reckon that would put me into the frequent flyer category, however I recognise that because my company has a cheapest fare policy (which means less revenue for Qantas, but similar bis costs to Y/J/F fares) my status ('importance factor') is less than the flyer who travels less frequently but pays a higher fare.

I guess thats why they call them status credits.

From a Frequent Flyer perspective, I personally am happy with the privileges available at Gold, and with the recent 'enhancements' for Platinum members see even less reason to chase the status.

However I do agree that the program has changed focus over the past few years and seems more aligned to a points collection program for non-frequent flyers, rather than what was originally intended 20-odd years ago.

 

[harvyk]

I guess the real question is how do you define a "frequent flyer"

To my circle of friends I became a "frequent flyer" when I did a third vv trip within a 6 month period.

To QF I became a "frequent flyer" when I paid my money to join the program.

To some people on here I'm sure there are some people on here who would still not consider me a "frequent flyer" (what do you mean only 50 sectors a year average)

Unless there is a dictionary definition of what a "frequent flyer" is and it turns out that the person who flys J a few times a year does not count as one, QF can continue to call their "frequent flyers" what ever they like. Infact I'm pretty sure back in the day taking a single return F trip SYD-JFK would nab someone gold (or put them within a few SC's of it), and yet they'd still need to do 2 more flights to get minimum 4 qualifying segments

 

[dk4]

Qantas would seem to use a mathematical system, to try and balance out the amount of flying a passenger does (taking into account variances between segments & miles) and the level of profitability of fares purchased.

Perhaps something like this -

 

[anat0l]

Qantas would seem to use a mathematical system, to try and balance out the amount of flying a passenger does (taking into account variances between segments & miles) and the level of profitability of fares purchased.

Perhaps something like this -

I'm sure that graph you created rather quickly, i.e. the electronic equivalent of "back of the envelope".

Pretty much every FFP around the world would have a graph that looks like that.

The OP would be suggesting that the "bulge" be much, much longer on the horizontal axis compared to the vertical one.

 

[dk4]

The OP would be suggesting that the "bulge" be much, much longer on the horizontal axis compared to the vertical one.

Of course it would depend on what figures were placed on the axes. (But yes, I have tried to make the graph demonstrate a larger horizontal bulge than vertical, within visual balance.)

But I don't think that every FF program is exactly similar, as you know with AAdvantage the profit factor for EQP is 1 : 1.5 (high value economy, business & first - all lumped together).

 

[JohnK]

In my opinion QFF is more like a frequent spender program these days rather than a frequent flyer program.

And yes it is not easy to get Platinum status, or even Gold status, easily flying domestic discount economy.

 

[harvyk]

It's a pretty graph, and it shows how QF define frequent flyers, but not the general public.
We probably set a much higher bar for our definition of a frequent flyer than the general public.

If your someone who does maybe 2 sectors a year (a single return trip), you'd probably look at someone who does 12 sectors a year as a frequent flyer (as they are much more frequent than yourself), and yet most of us here would probably not consider a person who does 12 sectors a frequent flyer. (That's one trip every 2 months assuming that they are all single sector trips)

 

[oz_mark]

The program started out as a marketing tool, and as a marketing tool it attempts to lock in your loyalty to a vendor (Qantas), assist in upselling (if you buy this more expensive ticket, getting status is easier) and in general, providing additional incremental revenue from its client base.

So, in terms of it being easier for premium passengers to get status, well, that is part of the marketing design.

I guess it is perhaps unfortunate that Qantas went with the label 'Frequent Flyer' as the program name. Most other airlines came up with other names that perhaps were more neutral in describing the program.

(As for comments on being a frequent spender program, that is refelctive of the fact that it has become a business in its own right, rather than a marketing tool)

 

[markis10]

In terms of rewards its certainly a frequent spender program, unlike many programs elsewhere however its still a frequent flyer program as far as status goes, you can buy as many presidential coins or muffins that award points as you like and your status wont change a bit. The rate at which you have to fly to get status in terms of being a frequent flyer is a different matter.

 

[japansuki]

Hi "AnonymousCoward",

I don't only fly SYD-MEL sectors, I often fly SYD-PER, SYD-DRW so they are not necessarily cheap, short flights.

Do you believe all marketing you come across? That Lynx deoderant makes you irresitably attractive to women? That Pure Blonde beer comes from some magical place?

No, I don't - I am just making a point.

But writing to Alan Joyce is a waste of your time. Of course, you are free to waste it however you want.

Actually, it was worth my while - I was 'compensated' 20,000 QFF miles for the 'frustration' this has put me through.

Have a great day

 

[samh004]

But writing to Alan Joyce is a waste of your time. Of course, you are free to waste it however you want.

Actually, it was worth my while - I was 'compensated' 20,000 QFF miles for the 'frustration' this has put me through.

Have a great day

Can you draft a letter for me

 

[AnonymousCoward]

But writing to Alan Joyce is a waste of your time. Of course, you are free to waste it however you want.

Actually, it was worth my while - I was 'compensated' 20,000 QFF miles for the 'frustration' this has put me through.

Have a great day

Great. Let's all do this. When we all have 20,000 free points, they'll just devalue points again.