Jetstar problems

[annann]

My lifetime Qantas Club membership prohibits me from wanting to make that change and anyway I am very happy with Qantas, I just wanted to share my JQ experiences with the original writer of this thread.

 

[Platy]

... You need to have minimal expectation with JetStar (and all LCCs in general), provided that you pay a low ticket price. In case for KIX flights too bad if you book through QF and JAL and end up in a JQ flight.... Everytime I travel with JQ international I will hear someone complaining that their thought it is a QF flight and where is my free food etc etc... However this problem never occur with 3K (Jetstar Asia) because I think QF don't re-brand them. ....

Thanks for sharing your own experiences FL360!

On the point above, IMHO it is one thing to brand a LCC and to set service standards lower in concert with lower ticket prices, but entirely another to brand the flights as QF full service and leave people short.

I can't see that to be good PR for the Qantas brand, group or airline. They must assume that the money they save by dumping people onto JQ to be more important than lost custom and brand integrity.

Just a few days ago I met yet another person here in CNS that had been shocked to find that their return ticket from UK involved a switch to Jetstar in SIN to get to CNS (this used to be a QF 767 route, but changed a while back). They will avoid JQ in the future (eg go CX LHR-HKG-CNS).

It's a JQ problem to lose such customers, but one of QF's making.

 

[FL360]

dajop, the problem here is not people not willing to pay more to fly QF, is that Qantas and/or travel agents sell re-branded JQ flights with QF flight numbers and due to passengers / ticket agent ignorance/deception they were sold a JQ flight with a QF flight number on and the pax expected a QF flight, the happens a lot with their KIX and HNL flights because most of the pax are first timers..... now with the invention of *class they can imitate a oneworld / QF business class seat as well .

Of course not a case for the usual readers here...

Well, that's hardly a problem for Jetstar's shareholders is it? They probably would appreciate ppl willing to pay extra few bucks to fly QF. Your complaint would have more credibility if it said".... has ensured that I will do eveything I can to travel with TG/SQ/DJ/whoever-but-not-QF in the future!"

 

[Platy]

dajop, the problem here is not people not willing to pay more to fly QF, is that Qantas and/or travel agents sell re-branded JQ flights with QF flight numbers and due to passengers / ticket agent ignorance/deception they were sold a JQ flight with a QF flight number on and the pax expected a QF flight, the happens a lot with their KIX and HNL flights because most of the pax are first timers..... now with the invention of *class they can imitate a oneworld / QF business class seat as well .

Of course not a case for the usual readers here...

Exactly, FL360.

Yet, Dajob kinda hits the nail on the head by referring things back to the primary drive of keeping the shareholder happy in the short term!

IMHO the Jetstar experiment will come unstuck at some point in the future and the question for QF will be at what "cost" to its primary brand.

 

[comint]

IMHO the Jetstar experiment will come unstuck at some point in the future and the question for QF will be at what "cost" to its primary brand.

Primary Brand – that would be Jetstar!

Jetstar is a massive pan-Asian airline brand, being developed from the ground up by the Qantas Group. Qantas Airways, itself, will continue as the small niche Australian brand, participating in a Global Airline Alliance, probably with a future ownership stake in a regional partner. (e.g. Singapore Airlines, Air NZ… in the style of Air France/KLM.)

If you define the Qantas market as “Quality” and the Jetstar market as “Quantity”, then Jetstar is very much the mass market future for the Qantas Group. Jetstar’s market has the potential to surpass the size and scope of Qantas’, to an incomparable level - given Asia's population and future transport deregulation.

I would imagine though, that those Australians who wish to put up a premium for travel will continue to be accommodated by Qantas - between our major domestic capitals and internationally to their Global Alliance Partners' Hubs.

 

[dajop]

dajop, the problem here is not people not willing to pay more to fly QF, is that Qantas and/or travel agents sell re-branded JQ flights with QF flight numbers and due to passengers / ticket agent ignorance/deception they were sold a JQ flight with a QF flight number on and the pax expected a QF flight,

That is a huge problem, one of many covered by this thread. And agree that is pretty pathetic. Also pathetic how you can pay same points and non-airport specific taxes/surcharges for a QF coded award MEL-BKK on JQ metal as you do for QF award SYD-BKK (on QF or BA metal). For the MEL-BKK award, you get no catering, no drinks, no blankets/pillows and very limited IFE. For SYD-BKK you get 2 meals, AVOD, alcohol, blankets/pillows, priority luggage if you have a tier ... massive discrepancy for the same purchase "price".

BUT until people start moving their loyalty from the Qantas group - why should they care? And if people aren't moving away from the QF group, as annann has indicated (due to her satisfaction with QF overall, and lifetime QP, which is fair enough) then they probably have the strategy correct. It's important to remember unwaivering oneway loyalty has its price, which one would hope is rewarded in the other direction in the long term.

Back to my original post , the codeshare issue did not seem to be the case with annann's complaint, which related to how JQ handled a complaint about problems with * class. As she is only travelling JQ MEL-BKK to avoid SYD, there are other options, such asa TG's 14 services a week, but has chosen JQ, for whatever reason (annann - I don't mean to offend you, and apologies if I am, but I am poiinting out that despite your concerns - you will still be flying JQ - if this is the attitude of other passengers as welll, it illustrates that perhaps JQ/QF has got it right, as much as we bleat and moan about!).

JQ are not adverse to changing things if the market doesn't like it - eg move from "free for all" to allocated seating.

 

[Platy]

Primary Brand – that would be Jetstar!

Jetstar is a massive pan-Asian airline brand, being developed from the ground up by the Qantas Group. Qantas Airways, itself, will continue as the small niche Australian brand, participating in a Global Airline Alliance, probably with a future ownership stake in a regional partner. (e.g. Singapore Airlines, Air NZ… in the style of Air France/KLM.)

If you define the Qantas market as “Quality” and the Jetstar market as “Quantity”, then Jetstar is very much the mass market future for the Qantas Group. Jetstar’s market has the potential to surpass the size and scope of Qantas’, to an incomparable level - given Asia's population and future transport deregulation.

I would imagine though, that those Australians who wish to put up a premium for travel will continue to be accommodated by Qantas - between our major domestic capitals and internationally to their Global Alliance Partners' Hubs.

Thanks, Comint, you make some very interesting points!

If what you say is true then those of us who appreciate the options of premium cabins, some sort of service in economy, loyalty program benefits, etc, etc, arguably should be switching allegiance to Star Alliance forthwith and making use of the various options which United, Air NZ, Thai, etc can offer Aussies and take the cheapest on the day when flying domestically. (Personally, I am very unsure what I will do myself in 12-18 months time when I expect to reach Lifetime Gold on QF, if there still is such a thing).

Generally speaking it can be a dangerous business strategy to compete on cost rather than value, which is one of my concerns with Jetstar.

In favour of your argument I have always found it telling that QF Group are planning to direct the first upcoming 787s to JQ rather than QF and it's no surprise that the Irish Leprechaun is due to take over from Geoff (oh that $130 million bonus I forgot to mention) Dixon.

Whether the future of QF as a brand is relatively small or large, I maintain it is a serious business error to allow the QF brand to be muddied by the JQ brand, and vice versa. It doesn't help JQ any to have passengers expecting "full service" any more than QF by passengers feeling betrayed by being dumped from QF to JQ.

But then, ironically, some of the "quality" of the QF has gone done the gurgler recently in terms of woeful delays on "premium" international routes.

I perceive the QF Group management as dropping the ball on the QF brand as they coo and fuss over the new child.

And as LCC thinking inceasingly pervades QF Group management, their regard for passenger loyalty and customer service are in danger of falling to LCC levels. Many of us are being driven to become budget flyers and to make choices based on cost not loyalty. And as we all now it is far cheaper to retain business than win it back.

Sure large markets can offer a voluminous customer base, but they also attract stiff competition, which in turn can lead to slight (or negative) profit margins especially when focusing competitive strategy on price.

 

[Saab34]

I was unable to fly my AVV-SYD-AVV sector last Saturday due to a Funeral. What are my chances JQ will give me a credit or a new flight?

 

[serfty]

If you had conacted them beforehand, they may have been able to do something. I don't think there's much chance now.

However, there should be no harm in trying.

 

[oz_mark]

IMHO the Jetstar experiment will come unstuck at some point in the future and the question for QF will be at what "cost" to its primary brand.

One of the drivers behind creating Jetstar was the damage being done to the Qantas brand during the cost cutting drives in the years leading up to the creation of Jetstar.

HAving said that, some of the best marketing done for Virgin Blue in the last year has been done by Qantas.

 

[Asian Flyer]

Jetstar passengers be forewarned!
While using one of their flights from Singapore to Perth my suitcase had the lock broken off and several items were stolen by baggage handlers. When I put in a complaint and was contacted by Merlyn (Baggage Claims Officer) at “[email protected]” I was told they will not reimburse me for the loss.

I asked in three separate follow up emails to be given copies of their customer services policy, their baggage handling policy, name and contact details for his manager plus asked whether an investigation into the theft has been lodged with the police, I was ignored on each occasion.
The only thing they were prepared to do was give me a letter so I can claim it with my private insurance. I have since told the company I work for, who pay for all my flights, never to book me with this airline again and I will be taking it much further that this too. They think because it is a small claim that I won't bother taking it to a lawyer. With their recent bad publicity in the media about how they treated the guy in the wheelchair you would think they would make some effort to try and give good service. I already have many friends who I work with who are now taking the same stand.
It is easy to understand why the "contact us" section of their website has no email contact details at all. Looking through several similar chat rooms and blogs Jetstar complaints are far too numerous to count.

 

[serfty]

Welcome to AFF Asian Flyer

How soon did you make the claim?

Due to it being an international flight and Jetstar an Oz carrier, they are bound by the "Montreal Convention".

17 - Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air

When did you 1) discover the loss of the items, and 2) Commence trying to inform Jetstar of this?

 

[Asian Flyer]

Thank you.

Within one hour of disembarking from the plane.

If I read the Montreal convention correctly it means they have no liability whatsoever.

Anyway, my point was to inform others not to expect any assistance from Jetstar if something similar was to happen to them.

Regards

 

[serfty]

Did they give you any paperwork after reporting the item loss? The BEST way to report such loss is at the airport - before departing the terminal.

Given you are unlikely to have opened the case it is unlikely.

Such loss is certainly covered under the Montreal Convention under the Damage provisions. (International flight by Australian Registered carrier.)

Here's the T&C's: Conditions of carriage - At The Airport - Travel Information - Jetstar Airways

I guess it's moot since you no longer wish to pursue this.

 

[Asian Flyer]

Thanks again.

I'd love to pursue it further but the conditions you pointed me too verify what they told me when they said they accept no liability:

7.4 Restrictions on checked baggage

You must not include in your Checked Baggage:

• fragile, delicate or perishable items
• computers
• items with a special value, such as money, jewellery, precious metals, silverware
• negotiable papers, share certificates, securities or other valuable documents
• cameras
• electronic equipment
• commercial goods or business documents, or
• passports and other travel documents.

As our liability is limited (see 14 ), we will not be liable for any inconvenience or Damage you suffer if you have ignored our requirements and included the item/s as Checked Baggage.
-------------------------------

The items stolen were a portable hard drive and an LED torch, both brand new. They said they would pay for the damage to my suitcase if I wanted to claim it but all that is broken are two metal rings that were part of the zip mechanism that a padlock was attached to, and the padlock was also gone. The suitcase can still be used, just locked differently.

 

[medhead]

Thanks again.

I'd love to pursue it further but the conditions you pointed me too verify what they told me when they said they accept no liability:

7.4 Restrictions on checked baggage

You must not include in your Checked Baggage:

• fragile, delicate or perishable items
• computers
• items with a special value, such as money, jewellery, precious metals, silverware
• negotiable papers, share certificates, securities or other valuable documents
• cameras
• electronic equipment
• commercial goods or business documents, or
• passports and other travel documents.

As our liability is limited (see 14 ), we will not be liable for any inconvenience or Damage you suffer if you have ignored our requirements and included the item/s as Checked Baggage.
-------------------------------

The items stolen were a portable hard drive and an LED torch, both brand new. They said they would pay for the damage to my suitcase if I wanted to claim it but all that is broken are two metal rings that were part of the zip mechanism that a padlock was attached to, and the padlock was also gone. The suitcase can still be used, just locked differently.

Well those metal ring bits can be repaired.

But I think that you need to taken a broader view on this matter. There are a couple of things to consider. First the liability is only limited by the extent permissible by law (see Clause 14 of CofC). As the Montreal convention applies, you need to check to see if that allows reimbursement for theft.

the broader view to take is that the zip was damaged, and they have accepted liability for that damage by offerring to pay for repairs. You could argue that the other items were lost as a result of the zip damage, therefore it is a loss due to damage; (you don't know the zip might have been opened as the converyor ripped off the lock and then the items fell out of the bag) Again Montreal convention would be your friend here.

 

[serfty]

...
The items stolen were a portable hard drive and an LED torch, both brand new. ...

Well, while you may have been covered by "Montreal" for other items, you certainly dip out on those.

Most airlines have a clause in their terms and conditions saying that they do not accept responsibility for perishable or valuable items (such as cameras, camcorders, mobile phones, documents or jewellery). It is arguable whether such exclusions are compatible with the provisions of the Montreal Convention in all circumstances. But an airline is liable only for items that it has agreed to carry. If you packed items in your luggage that were listed as "You must not include in your Checked Baggage" in the airline's conditions of carriage the point is moot if they go missing.

 

[parispete]

Having been a Qantas frequent flyer for a lot of years, and enjoyed several free flights from my mileage bank, it gives me no great pleasure to see the whole coughed-up mess falling apart.
Take December 12th, for example. I was booked out of Sydney on the 8.30 to the Gold Coast, then on to Osaka, arriving 6.20pm to meet friends at the airport. We finally left Sydney nearly two hours late, then the Osaka flight was cancelled, so we would finally get there from Tokyo. Late arrival? No sir, they would put their foot to the floor and make up time. Bollocks. They shut the doors at Tokyo at 9pm, with refuelling still going. `Ten more minutes` came the cheerful news from the pointy end. Again bollocks - try forty. Again cruise control seemed not to be working, and when we finally arrived at Osaka some time after 11pm, all transport had long stopped running. This meant a night at the airport hotel, a two hundred dollar plus bill that from all Qantas feedback, stands an excellent chance of not being paid back to me.
As I said, from once loving our Flying Roo to death, cough(up)Star seems to be spiralling down through Flying Joke to Bloody Disaster.
Whoever is in the chair of this groaning tragedy should immediately clear out his desk, buy a tinny with a couple of oars, and go fishing.

 

[mannej]

Welcome to AFF Parispete.

Sorry to hear about your delays, but these tend to happen with all carriers, not just QF/JQ.

JQ19 would have possibly been the same plane to take you the whole way to KIX from SYD, so if it was delayed out of Sydney, there was always going to be follow on delays.

JQ/QF got you to your destination, albeit late so they are not obliged to pay for any accommodation.

I'm sorry to hear about the delay, but it happens with all carriers, and is really luck of the draw.

 

[parispete]

Hogwash, my friend. I don`t know your background, but as a very frequent flyer of seventy plus who uses airlines at least twenty times a year, I can assure you that any assertion that a five hour late arrival after spending eighteen hours in the air or at airports on what what supposed to be a ten flying hours trip might be commonplace is to say the earth is flat and Elvis lives.
I made my first commercial flights in DC3s, Convair turboprops, and DeHavilland Comets back in the sixties when the primitive state of air travel would have justified a disastrous timetable, but when the reality was that we left and got there pretty much on time. Maybe this was blind luck, or the planes were better maintained, or simply because back then people who ran airlines cared about us.
And if you cast about you, you will still find people who care, and can and do run great airlines. The problem we seem to be stuck with here at the bottom of the world is that few, of any, of these worthy and admirable souls seem to work for the Flying Roo.
I was, and still in a sense remain, one of Qantas` biggest fans. This is because I remember how decent they were when they were growing up in a hard commercial world and the going was really tough. To find any resemblance between what they were then to what we are now asked to endure is rather like the iconic figure of the Wall Street tycoon denying responsibility for greed in the spirit of `let them eat cake`, or inferring, as you, my friend, are bent on, that all carriers suffer the same coughups as poor Jetstar.
For, as Martin Luther King famously said - `I have a dream`.
I too have a dream - that one day soon, on the well-packed planes currently wearing Jetstar tail logos on the Japan route, that some carrier focussed more on long-term duty to the travelling public than the current upstart misfits will step up to the plate. Given half a chance, Singapore Air, Emirates, Virgin, Korean or Cathay could make the current impersonation of an airline by Jetstar nothing more than the fading memory of some unhappy travelling nightmare from the distant past.
And when that day happens along, I`ll be there at the front of a very long queue - with baited breath and credit card waving and friends waiting at far-flung airports around the world who will not spit and glare at me for keeping them waiting for five hours.