Jetstar turn back; Failed to Get Authorisation

[drron]

I would never try the Vegas sandwich trick at Immigration in a foreign country, especially one in Africa! Good luck to you Ron.

We did our research and found that this was common. As well in round about language you were basically told what was required. The couple in front of us didn’t and we didn’t see them come through customs although we had nearly an hour’s wait for our hotel shuttle having just missed one. They had been directed to another line and we were called through.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Uganda is this century easier to enter if a little bit of US paper is submitted along with your passport.

If necessary at all, I hope it was a Jackson and not a Franklin.

 

[Saab34]

Apparently the runway was closed, would appear Jetstar was not aware. Bit late to backtrack the statement they put out which claimed paperwork mixup now I guess.

 

[jb747]

Apparently the runway was closed, would appear Jetstar was not aware. Bit late to backtrack the statement they put out which claimed paperwork mixup now I guess.

Were you able to find the NOTAM?

 

[flydoc]

In no way will I vouch for authenticity, but

 

[jb747]

That makes it much more interesting. I was wondering why the aircraft had so much fuel that it was able to return to Melbourne, and that Jeppesen plate pretty much explains it. My take is that it was not an oversight, but they were basically pushing the closure (as you might a curfew), in the hope that they’d make it, or get an extension. Looking at the positions and timing, they needed about 15 minutes, so not outlandish. You have no real choice but to launch, and hope it‘s sorted out whilst you’re flying. There wouldn’t have been any crew in Darwin, so a diversion there would have left them stranded.

 

[Saab34]

That makes it much more interesting. I was wondering why the aircraft had so much fuel that it was able to return to Melbourne, and that Jeppesen plate pretty much explains it. My take is that it was not an oversight, but they were basically pushing the closure (as you might a curfew), in the hope that they’d make it, or get an extension. Looking at the positions and timing, they needed about 15 minutes, so not outlandish. You have no real choice but to launch, and hope it‘s sorted out whilst you’re flying. There wouldn’t have been any crew in Darwin, so a diversion there would have left them stranded.

What is still strange is the return flight was also delayed and rescheduled to 0315am DPS-MEL. That is during the closure window. Still sort of looks as Flight Ops didn’t know.

As this was a delayed flight, the crew perhaps might have been standby? All rush rush and they missed the comms?

If it was due to a closed runway, why didn’t the company come out and say that? That gives them an opportunity to then put it on the Indonesian side of things, even though it’s still the airlines fault for being late, they can try to lessen the PR blow. Jetstar came out and said we screwed up, however it does not look like that reasoning was even remotely connected to the real reason here.

 

[Quickstatus]

Jeppesen plate pretty much explains it

Does the Jepp plate uses Z rather than local time?
- which would make the runway closure Wednesday 0200-0700 local time

 

[jb747]

What is still strange is the return flight was also delayed and rescheduled to 0315am DPS-MEL. That is during the closure window. Still sort of looks as Flight Ops didn’t know.

True, but it may well have been the latest time that the crew they had could be used. You could even get the scenario where they have permission to be 15 minutes late, but can’t get the clearance for departure, so elect not to go and have their aircraft stranded. Media releases rarely have much in common with the facts.

As this was a delayed flight, the crew perhaps might have been standby? All rush rush and they missed the comms?

Would they even have a standby crew. Not everyone does. And nobody is going to read the approach/airport chart prior to departure. Only the NOTAMS.

If it was due to a closed runway, why didn’t the company come out and say that? That gives them an opportunity to then put it on the Indonesian side of things, even though it’s still the airlines fault for being late, they can try to lessen the PR blow. Jetstar came out and said we screwed up, however it does not look like that reasoning was even remotely connected to the real reason here.

We don’t know the real reason. We’re just playing with some possibles. Anyway the chances of the PR people taking to someone who would actually know (and not just think they know) is limited, and even if they did they’re unlikely to understand any more than the “moronified” version.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That I would agree with.
EU261 would have been €600 cash instead of a $200 voucher (plus meals/accom/trips in vain/transport).

There is no compensation under EU261 for unused third party bookings.

In this case there might be enough wiggle room for JQ to say they did everything correctly and it was Indonesian recalcitrance that was the cause (EU261 exceptional circumstances clause). Though from a political point of view I’m not sure if JQ would want to publicly state that.

Unless Australia took a weaker position on the protection laws, like Canada has done, JQ would still be in the hook here.

Not providing the correct paperwork, if that’s what occurred, would not be considered an extraordinary circumstance, but rather part of the general nature of airline operations.

 

[Quickstatus]

Unless Australia took a weaker position

It's moot at the moment at least. There is no proposal to consider, table, or indeed legislate for an Australian Bill of air passenger rights.

if that’s what occurred

Still dont know. The Jepp plates suggest regular runway closure between 2100-2300 each day and on Tuesday between 1800-2300.
Is this Z or UTC time or local time? DPS is UTC+8, MEL is UTC+11

Assuming UTC time, then runway closures are: 0500-0700 each day and on Wednesday 0200-0700
and JQ35 departed MEL at 20:02 (local time in DPS) and turned around at 1600UTC which is midnight DPS time - leaving 2hrs available to beat the runway closure

Looking at previous JQ35 flights, the average time elapsed from the same point of turnaround to landing at DPS was less than 2 hours - typically 1:30 to 1:50 hrs.
So the aircraft should have been able to land before the 0200am runway closure (or be very close)

 

[Saab34]

If you dig deeper is also a local A320 arrival at 0200. Which was 40 mins after the estimated Jetstar arrival. I assume air traffic control would have a very accurate arrival time down to the near minute for the Jetstar arrival.

I wonder if it was the Jetstar Operation Centre that found out about the closure mid route and ordered a turn back to prevent the aircraft sitting idle for however long in Bali.

 

[Quickstatus]

prevent the aircraft sitting idle for however long

I can't see how that would be a problem or make the problem worse, the aircraft would be in DPS and not in MEL with DPS passengers offloaded, and AU bound passengers delayed for a shorter period than what happened.

very accurate arrival time

Both ATC and JQ35 would have an accurate arrival time. Its not DXB or LHR with significant holding due to surrounding traffic. The weather appeared benign and no volcanic ash at the time

 

[Saab34]

Here comes the next one!

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/travel-stories/jetstar-passengers-frustrated-as-baggage-taken-off-plane-before-flight-to-bali/news-story/a5973c350b92a5f2afd8d19e5a8be019

 

[jb747]

Still dont know. The Jepp plates suggest regular runway closure between 2100-2300 each day and on Tuesday between 1800-2300.
Is this Z or UTC time or local time? DPS is UTC+8, MEL is UTC+11

It would be Z.

I can't see how that would be a problem or make the problem worse, the aircraft would be in DPS and not in MEL with DPS passengers offloaded, and AU bound passengers delayed for a shorter period than what happened.

The crew would have run out of hours if it landed at 0200 (or so) and then could not depart until 0700. At that point it would have been already been around a 10 hour tour. Two man they might have just made it to Darwin, though I suspect the rules would not have even allowed them to take off. And then it would have been stuck in Darwin until another crew was positioned.

 

[Quickstatus]

could not depart until 0700

Ah ok, the same crew operates the return JQ36?

So smells like:
JQ could see the writing on the wall.
Uploaded enough fuel for the MEL return as a real contingency.
Launched, as you said, in the hope that DPS will let them in gratis or with a bit of extra palm grease and then turn around

Would an extra 1-2 pilots extend flight deck hours? If so did they have extra pilots?

Additional, is that why they used a 787 instead of an A320?. Only a 787 will have the range…

 

[Quickstatus]

Here comes the next one!

And the reality is JQ35 on same day with a 2hr longer flight time arriving around the same time using the same type of aircraft did not seem to feature in media with offloaded luggagr

 

[RSD]

Here comes the next one!

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/travel-stories/jetstar-passengers-frustrated-as-baggage-taken-off-plane-before-flight-to-bali/news-story/a5973c350b92a5f2afd8d19e5a8be019

Its getting to the stage with JQ that anyone booking a ticket with them should just know that they will get stuffed around!

 

[Quickstatus]

will get stuffed around!

Amazing there is no JQ fee for that service!

 

[RSD]

Amazing there is no JQ fee for that service!

There probably is - but you find out after you board!