JQ/3K moving to T4 at SIN in March 2023 :-(

[dajop]

Jetstar Asia has withered away into nothing. Entered the pandemic with 17 aircraft. Now down to 7, those missing all got sent to Australia and added onto VH Register, plus a few back to the lessor. I really don't think they are going back.

Scooter will have nearly 50 A320/1s by the end of the year. Plus 20 787s. Huge operation in SIN.

Demand for their aircraft intensive routes (i.e longer routes) have all but evaporated during the pandemic due to government restrictions (SYZ, HKG, SWA, TPE, XUZ, OKA, KIX) or political issues (CMB, RGN)

 

[Saab34]

3K should be able to stand on its own feet without connecting traffic, however they have become so small you really wonder how one can even make a dollar from that, or even if they did, is it really worth all the effort. It’s never made money just like Tiger Oz didn’t over here. Just shows these big players need to stick to their own backyard. Scoot owns Singapore and Jetstar owns Australian domestic. Vice versa for both it’s been a disaster.

 

[dajop]

3K should be able to stand on its own feet without connecting traffic, however they have become so small you really wonder how one can even make a dollar from that, or even if they did, is it really worth all the effort. It’s never made money just like Tiger Oz didn’t over here. Just shows these big players need to stick to their own backyard. Scoot owns Singapore and Jetstar owns Australian domestic. Vice versa for both it’s been a disaster.

As I mentioned in my last post I think they did OK serving some niche China points, and HKG/TPE as well. But that traffic has all but evaporated. They were also quite strong on RGN, which has also seen much traffic disappear.

For a long time SQ avoided putting Scoot (or previously) Tiger on a number of SQ mainline SE Asia routes, which also gave 3K a fighting chance but I think that policy has really changed now.

 

[33kft]

For a long time SQ avoided putting Scoot (or previously) Tiger on a number of SQ mainline SE Asia routes, which also gave 3K a fighting chance but I think that policy has really changed now

Honestly I'd let them burn the cash if I were 3K. Asia and SG in particular are so used to quality soft product that the Scoot brand in SG is about what Tiger was in AU, yet I think we would be better suited to Aussies as consumers.

I feel like CAG have won the battle but lost the war here, Scoot has a terrible reputation in SG to the point that CAG are copping heat over this apparent power play from what is usually an extremely nationalistic crowd. Lets see how it plays out for them as the hub model faces competition from direct routes.

I don't think SQ should be popping the champagne corks just yet.

 

[Lynnelanne]

Ok. We did this last week, Jetstar to Singapore, Crowne plaza overnight at airport, Jetstar to Penang. I use a walking stick and that was bad enough, although some time in the lounge was a respite. If this change goes ahead I would definitely fly MAS via KL in future.

 

[dairyfloss]

Looking at this opportunistically... maybe if the T4 change kills off JQ/3K out of Singapore, then QF will be pressured to let MH I/Z intra-Asia business fares credit at business rates again

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[openseat]

At least half hour

Good for the step count.

 

[wandering_fred]

Wonder what JQ will do for the Business Max passengers exSIN? Especially since the 3K/JQ connection times are almost long enough to promote wandering
Fred

 

[henrus]

Wonder what JQ will do for the Business Max passengers exSIN?

If you're talking about the lounge situation I suspect they'll provide access to the Blossom lounge in T4.

Jetstar/Qantas group already have some relation with SATS to provide business max with lounge access in T1 if the QF lounge is closed or full.

 

[moa999]

I'd assume one of the issues is that it's a multi step process to T4 from T1, as the buses only leave from T2 and T3.. plus obviously lounge access for elites and Max fares which rely on the QF lounges.

3Ks structure with a 51% local shareholder probably means they can't tolerate losses like Scoot.

 

[henrus]

as the buses only leave from T2 and T3.

T4 hasn't been open since the start of the pandemic, pre covid there was only a shuttle bus from T2.

plus obviously lounge access for elites and Max fares which rely on the QF lounges

Lounge access for elites is unlikely to change, if you hold QF status and want to use the lounge then you've got to trek over to T1. If they do go through with the move I'd full expect business max fares to get access to the contract lounge in T4.

It's worth remembering that only 19 business class (2 are blocked) are ever sold from Changi per day and the percentage max fares of that 19 is likely even smaller.

 

[jrfsp]

Costs, difficulty connecting to other flights are why Jetstar refuses to move to Terminal 4, say analysts

SINGAPORE: Jetstar Asia's refusal to move to Changi Airport's Terminal 4 is most likely due to its code-share arrangement with other airlines operating out of Terminal 1, experts told CNA. Jetstar

www.channelnewsasia.com

 

[mel-world]

Why is this change much different to the situation in SYD and BNE where you need to move terminals when transferring between DOM and INT? If JQ pax have access to a lounge in SIN T4, there is little difference - a walk to a bus or train and another walk at the other end for VA to AC connections, for instance - even QF DOM to QF INT.

 

[Mattg]

Why is this change much different to the situation in SYD and BNE where you need to move terminals when transferring between DOM and INT? If JQ pax have access to a lounge in SIN T4, there is little difference - a walk to a bus or train and another walk at the other end for VA to AC connections, for instance - even QF DOM to QF INT.

Qantas Gold (and above) and Qantas Club members would not get access to whatever lounge JQ uses for Business Max passengers in T4 as it's not a Qantas lounge.

 

[mel-world]

Qantas Gold (and above) and Qantas Club members would not get access to whatever lounge JQ uses for Business Max passengers in T4 as it's not a Qantas lounge.

Maybe Qantas need to discuss an arrangement with the CX Lounge in T4 for Gold (and above) and Qantas Club members who would not get Oneworld access by right.

 

[dajop]

Why is this change much different to the situation in SYD and BNE where you need to move terminals when transferring between DOM and INT? If JQ pax have access to a lounge in SIN T4, there is little difference - a walk to a bus or train and another walk at the other end for VA to AC connections, for instance - even QF DOM to QF INT.

Probably the main difference is that at SYD and BNE everyone has to do it. At SIN 3K and their various codeshare partners (QF, EK etc) which provide connecting traffic too are competing with SQ and TR who don’t have such arrangements.

 

[dairyfloss]

Maybe Qantas need to discuss an arrangement with the CX Lounge in T4 for Gold (and above) and Qantas Club members who would not get Oneworld access by right.

I doubt QF and their 49% of 3K would make enough margin on these flights to pay a 3rd party for QFF elites to get lounge access on Y fares. Only in the case of Business Max fares would it even out. It's different to offering access to the lounge you own & operate, as the billed costs are likely high & fixed, regardless of whether the pax consumes F&B & makes a big mess, or just sits there quietly and does nothing but watch CNBC Asia.

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[moa999]

I doubt QF and their 49% of 3K would make enough margin on these flights to pay a 3rd party for QFF elites to get lounge access on Y fares.

Exactly.
CX would charge a commercial rate (prob $40-50 a pax) whereas I suspect the related party charge is a lot lower for 3K.

And I assume SIN Airport isn't willing to make up the difference.

I thought T2 was meant to be reopening as well which surely takes the pressure off T1 as well

 

[jrfsp]

Why is this change much different to the situation in SYD and BNE where you need to move terminals when transferring between DOM and INT? If JQ pax have access to a lounge in SIN T4, there is little difference - a walk to a bus or train and another walk at the other end for VA to AC connections, for instance - even QF DOM to QF INT.

Currently the minimum connection time between T1 flight is around 45mins?

If 3K were to move this would likely be 90mins which may also have an impact on aircraft utilization around the evening peak where transfers may need to be extended out.

 

[JasonK]

I understand Changi are going to introduce a direct airside bus from T1 to T4 now as well which might help. Either way I was thinking about booking a 3K flight for December and was hoping they'd stay at T1 for easier lounge access...