Life Silver Recognition? Nope accused of made up crime and threatened with arrest..

[leaving on a jet plane]

What they could have done and all that is hardly relevant to the issue of touching the crewmember... even if he had some sort of attitude for any number of reasons.

And sure I was not there to witness how this FA did his thing but to equate how you were personally handled(yes, that is a deliberate use of the word ) to their ability in an emergency isn't that fair. You have absolutely NO clue how they would perform in an evac or other emergency on board (bar the comment to "get the woman off").. Airline crews are trained and refreshed on a regular basis - yearly or maybe even more often I'm not sure - in emergency procedures, and they are tested and evaluated. This is not like telling a pax they are selfish or threatening you with arrest because you touched them.

You have every right to be disgrunted, and take your business elsewhere and hold a grudge if you wish, but I feel you've been unfair to that employee in terms of their ability to act in an emergency.

Anyway back to the concern about cleaning up the mess etc.. if they announced it would take an hour to get a cleaning crew to clear the area and thus the flight would be delayed.. I wonder how many pax would appreciate that vs the few in the area?

Seems to me if there were spare seats a proactive crew/CSM would have noted this and come to those most directly affected and offered the move. That didn't happen and you had to ask yourself.

That doesn't warrant either the rude response re being selfish, but nor does it warrant an act of touching the crew member.

IMHO.

So Richard at best you are an FA...or at worst you are from one of the PR companies I used to employ to quell any and all criticism of your clients on all the social media your company monitors. Nothing else makes sense. your whole attack on me...the innocent $9,000 X2 paying passenger who is a Gold FF (and a very frequent experienced flyer) minding his own business and sitting next to a pile of vomit is that I touched the sleeve of an indignant, rude and incompetent QANTAS attendant as he attempted to humiliate me for no reason?
think you just gave yourself up mate!
You have just been exposed

 

[Pushka]

So Richard at best you are an FA...or at worst you are from one of the PR companies I used to employ to quell any and all criticism of your clients on all the social media your company monitors. Nothing else makes sense. your whole attack on me...the innocent $9,000 X2 paying passenger who is a Gold FF (and a very frequent experienced flyer) minding his own business and sitting next to a pile of vomit is that I touched the sleeve of an indignant, rude and incompetent QANTAS attendant as he attempted to humiliate me for no reason?
think you just gave yourself up mate!
You have just been exposed

I think RichardMEL is a WP1 .

However while I think what happened to you is awful and I would struggle and suspect my partner wouldn’t cope at all, the issue is that these days you just can’t touch anyone really, although if in friendly conversation you might touch someone on the arm between the shoulder and elbow. But you weren’t in a friendly conversation (and I think quite reasonably so) and to touch someone in such a conversation is kind of risky. If the other party chose to make a deal of it, and in this case they did, well you are on shaky ground.

 

[Flying mermaid]

I think RichardMEL is a WP1 .

However while I think what happened to you is awful and I would struggle and suspect my partner wouldn’t cope at all, the issue is that these days you just can’t touch anyone really, although if in friendly conversation you might touch someone on the arm between the shoulder and elbow. But you weren’t in a friendly conversation (and I think quite reasonably so) and to touch someone in such a conversation is kind of risky. If the other party chose to make a deal of it, and in this case they did, well you are on shaky ground.

yes I think these days the rule is never touch anyone unless you know them and know they are OK with it. I am not sure we are better off as a society, but these days touching can be quickly misunderstood or misinterpreted.

 

[mannej]

So Richard at best you are an FA...or at worst you are from one of the PR companies I used to employ to quell any and all criticism of your clients on all the social media your company monitors. Nothing else makes sense. your whole attack on me...the innocent $9,000 X2 paying passenger who is a Gold FF (and a very frequent experienced flyer) minding his own business and sitting next to a pile of vomit is that I touched the sleeve of an indignant, rude and incompetent QANTAS attendant as he attempted to humiliate me for no reason?
think you just gave yourself up mate!
You have just been exposed

Sorry but this is so far off it isn’t funny.

No one disputes the fact that it wouldn’t have been pleasant to have to sit near the person whilst she was ill, or in the aftermath. However once you place a hand on a FA no matter how intended, you risk being removed from the flight.

It doesn’t take a PR spin agent or a QF staff member to point that out, it’s common sense.

*And whilst I am at it, a differing point of view is not an attack. Richard quite correctly points out there is only 1 side of the story present, and does so in quite a respectful manner. Accusing someone of working for the airline is a pretty lazy attack TBH.

 

[JohnK]

Re the vomit - the choice is always there for the passenger to disembark. Depends how bad it actually is. No point arguing with the crew.

Not a practical choice. The crew failed in their duty to defuse a very simple situation of either cleaning the vomit or moving the passenger that was affected by the smell.

 

[Nank]

I've had similar at the Qantas Club in MEL before too. I got yelled at in front of everyone for taking a couple of photos of the planes parked at the B gates in front of us that weren't even going anywhere until the next day because it was a "security issue" despite the fact that if you look it up it actually isn't prohibited except for media companies unless they have prior permission from Melbourne Airport for filming people in the terminals. Apparently the fact that I'm a student pilot and hold an ASIC etc. isn't enough to stop me from being a security risk smh...... Needless to say next time I see that disgraceful, ill mannered oaf she'll be getting the verbal cough-whooping of her life in front of all the other guests.

 

[Pushka]

I’m always taking photos and have never been questioned. I wonder if there is something else happening here.

 

[mannej]

Apparently the fact that I'm a student pilot and hold an ASIC etc. isn't enough to stop me from being a security risk smh......

For the sake of vengeance, is this really worth it? These two comments kind of seem a tad contrary.

Needless to say next time I see that disgraceful, ill mannered oaf she'll be getting the verbal cough-whooping of her life in front of all the other guests.

 

[RichardMEL]

So Richard at best you are an FA...or at worst you are from one of the PR companies I used to employ to quell any and all criticism of your clients on all the social media your company monitors. Nothing else makes sense. your whole attack on me...the innocent $9,000 X2 paying passenger who is a Gold FF (and a very frequent experienced flyer) minding his own business and sitting next to a pile of vomit is that I touched the sleeve of an indignant, rude and incompetent QANTAS attendant as he attempted to humiliate me for no reason?
think you just gave yourself up mate!
You have just been exposed

Well... wow. I had to "like" this post because it honestly is the funniest thing I have read in quite some time. So way off track it's.. well... lol.

For the record I am NOT, nor have I ever been a FA (in fact my skillset at helping in an emergency would be marginal and definitely far worse than the FA you interacted with, whatever his proficency level ) nor have I ever worked for an airline or PR agency. I'm not sure if I should be flattered by your suggestion or not though. Will puzzle that one out over lunch.

You've jumped to these conclusions because I've called out ONE aspect of your story.. but you've conveniently ignored the rest of the comments I made regarding your description of events that I agreed with as being poor, dsrespectful (suggesting you were being selfish) and so on. I'm not sure how that makes me a PR spin doctor or defender of all things QF (which I am not).

For the record, I have just requalied for my 5th year of Platinum One, and I also hold United "1K" status which sort of the equipvalent of QF Platinum. I've been a self funded traveller for well over 30 years. Not that I'm trying to play a game of "mine's bigger than yours" but since you made a point of mentioning your status an dhow much you paid for your J seats, it seems only fair to qualify my flying experience.

And my levels are fa inferior to many in this forum.

by the way you did not, by your own admission, "mind you rown business" at all.. you (reasonably) asked if you and your wife could move seats due to the stench of the poorly cleaned mess. You then touched the crew member and said (your words) "wait a minute"...

THIS IS MY POINT!

I understand you feel attacked because folks (not just myself) have pointed out your actions. I fully realise your action was not MEANT in any way to restrain or impede the crew member as you felt you were being fobbed off after being rudely talked to, and from your point of view the matter was not over.. but it's very clear on every flight I have ever been on that crew (let alone other pax you do not know) should not be touched at all.

Again, this was simply the thing I was pointing out. You're obviously defensive on this issue and I understand that, but given the FA did then go on to "threaten" you with arrest it's not that unreasonable for them to react that way.

I liken airline crew (or anyone really who I interact with in a professional way, as a customer etc) kind of like sporting umpires or referees... you just can't touch them or make any contact with them (let alone abuse them). In the AFL for example players cop fines and suspensions for this kind of thing. I'm not too sure about other codes like soccer or cricket, but I'm almost certain there are similar rules.

That's what I was pointing out.

Or, to bring back to your customer service orientation that you profess to have and sales traning background.. if a salesperson doing their job was touched or held by a customer would that then be acceptable? Does the staff member not have the right to expect to work in an environment free of intimidation and unwanted contact from a customer, coworker etc?

Again, do not take these comments to mean I think you were deliberately intimidating this crew member, or acted in a threatening mannr.. I was not there but all that really matters is how the crew member reacted that he clearly felt uncomfortable and/or threatened by the act of you touching him to try to continue the conversation. In most enviroonments that contact would be frowned upon.

It's a pity you don't seem to acknowledge that this is a serious issue, despite your background in customer seervice.

Again though, I'd love for some of the real employees (pilots etc) in this group to weigh in on this issue from their point of view. eg: jb747.

Still, I thank you for the highly amusing speculation and "exposure" - though I suspect your reaction and accusation reflects more on your sensitivity.

PS: I did once apply for an IT job with Ansett back in the late 90's. I'm really glad I didn't get that role in retrospect That's as close as I've ever come to airline or travel industry employment

 

[Pushka]

Well... wow. I had to "like" this post because it honestly is the funniest thing I have read in quite some time. So way off track it's.. well... lol.

For the record I am NOT, nor have I ever been a FA (in fact my skillset at helping in an emergency would be marginal and definitely far worse than the FA you interacted with, whatever his proficency level ) nor have I ever worked for an airline or PR agency. I'm not sure if I should be flattered by your suggestion or not though. Will puzzle that one out over lunch.

You've jumped to these conclusions because I've called out ONE aspect of your story.. but you've conveniently ignored the rest of the comments I made regarding your description of events that I agreed with as being poor, dsrespectful (suggesting you were being selfish) and so on. I'm not sure how that makes me a PR spin doctor or defender of all things QF (which I am not).

For the record, I have just requalied for my 5th year of Platinum One, and I also hold United "1K" status which sort of the equipvalent of QF Platinum. I've been a self funded traveller for well over 30 years. Not that I'm trying to play a game of "mine's bigger than yours" but since you made a point of mentioning your status an dhow much you paid for your J seats, it seems only fair to qualify my flying experience.

And my levels are fa inferior to many in this forum.

by the way you did not, by your own admission, "mind you rown business" at all.. you (reasonably) asked if you and your wife could move seats due to the stench of the poorly cleaned mess. You then touched the crew member and said (your words) "wait a minute"...

THIS IS MY POINT!

I understand you feel attacked because folks (not just myself) have pointed out your actions. I fully realise your action was not MEANT in any way to restrain or impede the crew member as you felt you were being fobbed off after being rudely talked to, and from your point of view the matter was not over.. but it's very clear on every flight I have ever been on that crew (let alone other pax you do not know) should not be touched at all.

Again, this was simply the thing I was pointing out. You're obviously defensive on this issue and I understand that, but given the FA did then go on to "threaten" you with arrest it's not that unreasonable for them to react that way.

I liken airline crew (or anyone really who I interact with in a professional way, as a customer etc) kind of like sporting umpires or referees... you just can't touch them or make any contact with them (let alone abuse them). In the AFL for example players cop fines and suspensions for this kind of thing. I'm not too sure about other codes like soccer or cricket, but I'm almost certain there are similar rules.

That's what I was pointing out.

Or, to bring back to your customer service orientation that you profess to have and sales traning background.. if a salesperson doing their job was touched or held by a customer would that then be acceptable? Does the staff member not have the right to expect to work in an environment free of intimidation and unwanted contact from a customer, coworker etc?

Again, do not take these comments to mean I think you were deliberately intimidating this crew member, or acted in a threatening mannr.. I was not there but all that really matters is how the crew member reacted that he clearly felt uncomfortable and/or threatened by the act of you touching him to try to continue the conversation. In most enviroonments that contact would be frowned upon.

It's a pity you don't seem to acknowledge that this is a serious issue, despite your background in customer seervice.

Again though, I'd love for some of the real employees (pilots etc) in this group to weigh in on this issue from their point of view. eg: jb747.

Still, I thank you for the highly amusing speculation and "exposure" - though I suspect your reaction and accusation reflects more on your sensitivity.

PS: I did once apply for an IT job with Ansett back in the late 90's. I'm really glad I didn't get that role in retrospect That's as close as I've ever come to airline or travel industry employment

What took you so long to reply?

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Needless to say next time I see that disgraceful, ill mannered oaf she'll be getting the verbal cough-whooping of her life in front of all the other guests.

Probably best to rethink that strategy.

 

[RichardMEL]

What took you so long to reply?

well you know I was working a flight to LST....

 

[Flying mermaid]

PS: I did once apply for an IT job with Ansett back in the late 90's. I'm really glad I didn't get that role in retrospect That's as close as I've ever come to airline or travel industry employment

well you never know what might have happened if you had got the IT job. . I was working in IT with Qantas in the early 80s. There was some massive industrial action - must have been 1981 and the airline was desperate to keep the planes running, so all the non union staff were roped in. There were plenty of IT deveopers flying out as FAs. I ended up in Mascot working in the kitchens. The poor guy running the kitchens was in despair, as the guys had no idea. I was moved to first class meal preparation, as at least I understood and cared about food .

 

[RichardMEL]

totally OT, but with that job I went for with AN some years later I wound up at another company and the entire team(more or less) who were at AN were at this new place (the manager had brought "his team" over with him as it were) and he remembered me from my interview. Oh the stories they told of how NZ fowled things up..... and the way they ran the IT side of things. yeah.. I was better off. A great bunch of guys though I really enjoyed working with them all.

 

[rikkitikkitavi]

I've had similar at the Qantas Club in MEL before too. I got yelled at in front of everyone for taking a couple of photos of the planes parked at the B gates in front of us that weren't even going anywhere until the next day because it was a "security issue" despite the fact that if you look it up it actually isn't prohibited except for media companies unless they have prior permission from Melbourne Airport for filming people in the terminals. Apparently the fact that I'm a student pilot and hold an ASIC etc. isn't enough to stop me from being a security risk smh...... Needless to say next time I see that disgraceful, ill mannered oaf she'll be getting the verbal cough-whooping of her life in front of all the other guests.

Is that from in the terminal? Because that would be ridiculous. I know there's some rule about using phones (eveb though picture mode didn't transmit) on the tarmac

 

[RichardMEL]

I've heard of photographers being pulled up on the grounds of "security" at various loications in oz before. Seems stupid. Next to no difference between taking a pic of a/c at the gate from the terminal and being outside the permiter fence with a long lense etc. Some places in the US are even more strict on it, yet others have observation decks. It's pretty crazy I agree.

I myself have never been witness to anything like this, and I might take a morning snap from the lounge or something every so often, or at the gate if there's something I think interesting.

The worst part is it happening in public and being called out and made attention of. If someone's going to want to make an issue of it why not quietly pull the person aside or something... That would be more appropriate in my view (not that I agree with that, but at least be discreet). Possibly a bit of power games involved.

 

[leaving on a jet plane]

Well... wow. I had to "like" this post because it honestly is the funniest thing I have read in quite some time. So way off track it's.. well... lol.

For the record I am NOT, nor have I ever been a FA (in fact my skillset at helping in an emergency would be marginal and definitely far worse than the FA you interacted with, whatever his proficency level ) nor have I ever worked for an airline or PR agency. I'm not sure if I should be flattered by your suggestion or not though. Will puzzle that one out over lunch.

You've jumped to these conclusions because I've called out ONE aspect of your story.. but you've conveniently ignored the rest of the comments I made regarding your description of events that I agreed with as being poor, dsrespectful (suggesting you were being selfish) and so on. I'm not sure how that makes me a PR spin doctor or defender of all things QF (which I am not).

For the record, I have just requalied for my 5th year of Platinum One, and I also hold United "1K" status which sort of the equipvalent of QF Platinum. I've been a self funded traveller for well over 30 years. Not that I'm trying to play a game of "mine's bigger than yours" but since you made a point of mentioning your status an dhow much you paid for your J seats, it seems only fair to qualify my flying experience.

And my levels are fa inferior to many in this forum.

by the way you did not, by your own admission, "mind you rown business" at all.. you (reasonably) asked if you and your wife could move seats due to the stench of the poorly cleaned mess. You then touched the crew member and said (your words) "wait a minute"...

THIS IS MY POINT!

I understand you feel attacked because folks (not just myself) have pointed out your actions. I fully realise your action was not MEANT in any way to restrain or impede the crew member as you felt you were being fobbed off after being rudely talked to, and from your point of view the matter was not over.. but it's very clear on every flight I have ever been on that crew (let alone other pax you do not know) should not be touched at all.

Again, this was simply the thing I was pointing out. You're obviously defensive on this issue and I understand that, but given the FA did then go on to "threaten" you with arrest it's not that unreasonable for them to react that way.

I liken airline crew (or anyone really who I interact with in a professional way, as a customer etc) kind of like sporting umpires or referees... you just can't touch them or make any contact with them (let alone abuse them). In the AFL for example players cop fines and suspensions for this kind of thing. I'm not too sure about other codes like soccer or cricket, but I'm almost certain there are similar rules.

That's what I was pointing out.

Or, to bring back to your customer service orientation that you profess to have and sales traning background.. if a salesperson doing their job was touched or held by a customer would that then be acceptable? Does the staff member not have the right to expect to work in an environment free of intimidation and unwanted contact from a customer, coworker etc?

Again, do not take these comments to mean I think you were deliberately intimidating this crew member, or acted in a threatening mannr.. I was not there but all that really matters is how the crew member reacted that he clearly felt uncomfortable and/or threatened by the act of you touching him to try to continue the conversation. In most enviroonments that contact would be frowned upon.

It's a pity you don't seem to acknowledge that this is a serious issue, despite your background in customer seervice.

Again though, I'd love for some of the real employees (pilots etc) in this group to weigh in on this issue from their point of view. eg: jb747.

Still, I thank you for the highly amusing speculation and "exposure" - though I suspect your reaction and accusation reflects more on your sensitivity.

PS: I did once apply for an IT job with Ansett back in the late 90's. I'm really glad I didn't get that role in retrospect That's as close as I've ever come to airline or travel industry employment

I am not going to go into a long winded defense of my position on this and I accept that you were only playing devils advocate. I also accept that you don't in this day and age touch anyone in this PC world ... even if just on the sleeve...even if they are being rude and storming away and doing so just as part of some power play because its THEIR domain. What I will close with is this. The FA was the aggressor in all of this. He had zero interest in the fact that I was about to vomit from the stench. He made zero effort to accommodate my reasonable question to move. He had zero respect for my wife and I...we were just another pair of annoying passengers sent to ruin his day. He made zero effort to even have the area cleaned up properly. Even this FA's superior and the junior FA were apologizing to me for the way we were treated. For the record all my staff are trained to understand that customers are not an interruption to your day...they are the reason we exist.

 

[RichardMEL]

Well that's great that you acknowledge you shouldn't have touched the FA. That's all my point was

And in terms of resolution to that situation, it was apprropriate, imho, to discuss the matter with the CSM.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So Richard at best you are an FA...or at worst you are from one of the PR companies I used to employ to quell any and all criticism of your clients on all the social media your company monitors. Nothing else makes sense. your whole attack on me...the innocent $9,000 X2 paying passenger who is a Gold FF (and a very frequent experienced flyer) minding his own business and sitting next to a pile of vomit is that I touched the sleeve of an indignant, rude and incompetent QANTAS attendant as he attempted to humiliate me for no reason?
think you just gave yourself up mate!
You have just been exposed

I disagree with the sentiments here.

I'm not the greatest advocate of QF service - far too inconsistent. And I believe that the crew member could have been narky. I've seen it before. But... as soon as you 'touched the sleeve' (which is 99% of the time is actually downplaying the degree that something actually occurred) that was the immediate deciding factor. You were in the wrong. All staff are entitled to a safe workplace. This means they should be free from intimidation. Touching someone is never necessary in this context - not least because it loses the argument immediately.

 

[OATEK]

On the "don't touch the sleeve" issue, I did it without thinking on an AY overnight and there were no repercussions - just a broad smile and "How can I help you sir". It was over a very serious issue - they had not placed any cutlery on my meal tray!!