Losing QFF points and calling in the media

[MEL_Traveller]

For me there is a difference between failure to update contact details (mobile) and failure to read one of a dozen weekly emails from a company, 99% of which are marketing.

If a person doesn’t update their mobile and misses out on a points warning, fair enough, the company has done everything they can.

But one in a thousand emails can be easily overlooked.

 

[RichardMEL]

For me there is a difference between failure to update contact details (mobile) and failure to read one of a dozen weekly emails from a company, 99% of which are marketing.

If a person doesn’t update their mobile and misses out on a points warning, fair enough, the company has done everything they can.

But one in a thousand emails can be easily overlooked.

I do agree with this, but it starts a slippery slide where the customer can reduce any accountability on their part.

For example, someone might argue "Well I get 5 emails a week, so if I missed it it's not my fault because they send too much junk, so they should have sent a text" "Well I didn't get the text because my mobile was broken/wrong or changed number/don't own one so they should have called me" "Well I don't have a landline any more and I didn't check my voice mail because I was away for 2 months in China" - I mean where does it end?

Plus, I get texts from QF with notifications about flight changes or to check in or whatever... it's always possible someone could ignore such texts too.

Now sure, maybe open up the app, or login to your FF account, and a big dialog box comes up "Your points will expire on [ date ]" might help, but just as much users could think that stuff was getting in their way. Who knows. There's an argument for and against every case IMHO (and of course, those actively using their accounts or the app are unlikely to be the folks who discover after 2 years of ding nothing their points expired)

At some point one has to accept SOME responsibility to manage their affairs.

 

[drron]

I get back to the time mrsdrron lost all her Velocity points.Her details at the time were correct.But she did not get emails from Velocity despite on at least 2 occasions updating to receive emails.
I did not bother looking at my velocity emails because all my points went by family transfer to her account.We were in Africa when they changed the rules re transfers not keeping activity going.Missed the discussion on AFF as no internet-when found after TSHTF the thread title was non specific.
Still when I go to my Velocity account there is no use by date as I find on AA and indirectly KF.That should be there.An email that is specific to points expiring and not have that in the small print of a general email should be mandatory.And because I would not trust them an SMS as well.
mrsdrron wont even fly VA now.I do regularly check as to when last qualifying actity was.But the general public would probably not know to do that.
So I don't blame the individual but the Australian airlines who obviously want the points to be lost.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Now sure, maybe open up the app, or login to your FF account, and a big dialog box comes up "Your points will expire on [ date ]" might help, but just as much users could think that stuff was getting in their way. Who knows. There's an argument for and against every case IMHO (and of course, those actively using their accounts or the app are unlikely to be the folks who discover after 2 years of ding nothing their points expired)

At some point one has to accept SOME responsibility to manage their affairs.

That assumes people actually log into their account regularly. Part of the problem is that people have no activity nor to they bother to login to monitor their account. Again the debate comes back to the individual having to take some responsibility for managing their account.

I get back to the time mrsdrron lost all her Velocity points.Her details at the time were correct.But she did not get emails from Velocity despite on at least 2 occasions updating to receive emails.

I did not bother looking at my velocity emails because all my points went by family transfer to her account.We were in Africa when they changed the rules re transfers not keeping activity going.Missed the discussion on AFF as no internet-when found after TSHTF the thread title was non specific.

Still when I go to my Velocity account there is no use by date as I find on AA and indirectly KF.That should be there.An email that is specific to points expiring and not have that in the small print of a general email should be mandatory.And because I would not trust them an SMS as well.
mrsdrron wont even fly VA now.I do regularly check as to when last qualifying actity was.But the general public would probably not know to do that.

So I don't blame the individual but the Australian airlines who obviously want the points to be lost.

I remember that incident happening. You both were extremely unlucky as VA moved the goal posts so you were unaware you had to do something extra other than a family transfer in order to have activity. Did you end up getting the points reinstated? Do VA offer a challenge similar to QF where you can get the points back by earning with a couple of partners?

 

[OATEK]

I do agree with this, but it starts a slippery slide where the customer can reduce any accountability on their part.

For example, someone might argue "Well I get 5 emails a week, so if I missed it it's not my fault because they send too much junk, so they should have sent a text" "Well I didn't get the text because my mobile was broken/wrong or changed number/don't own one so they should have called me" "Well I don't have a landline any more and I didn't check my voice mail because I was away for 2 months in China" - I mean where does it end?

Plus, I get texts from QF with notifications about flight changes or to check in or whatever... it's always possible someone could ignore such texts too.

Now sure, maybe open up the app, or login to your FF account, and a big dialog box comes up "Your points will expire on [ date ]" might help, but just as much users could think that stuff was getting in their way. Who knows. There's an argument for and against every case IMHO (and of course, those actively using their accounts or the app are unlikely to be the folks who discover after 2 years of ding nothing their points expired)

At some point one has to accept SOME responsibility to manage their affairs.

Look, I do get that people need to responsible for their affairs. But there is a marked lack of transparency on the airlines when they bury your points status at the bottom of a long email (providing as in mrsdrron's case you actually receive one). Fault on both sides at times perhaps, but you can't let the airlines off easily.

 

[RichardMEL]

Look, I do get that people need to responsible for their affairs. But there is a marked lack of transparency on the airlines when they bury your points status at the bottom of a long email (providing as in mrsdrron's case you actually receive one). Fault on both sides at times perhaps, but you can't let the airlines off easily.

As someone noted above they want the points lost. That's clear. The airlines' objective is to reduce the liability, and if they can do it for free by points expiry, then that gives the bean counters a warm and happy glow.

QF (and VA I suppose, but I am not a member so can't comment on them) can do the usual "We notify people via email" when that may be a line somewhere within a regular newsletter easily missed. Legally QF has kept to the T&C, but probably on a "pub test" basis they have not.

I totally agree.

My point was more that even if they sent one email with a subject of "NOTIFICATION OF UPCOMING POINTS EXPIRY" or something similr, some people would still complain... or if they sent atext that may be missed for whatever reason *some* people will still complain.

the vast majority of folks, and not just cough AFF types like most of us who use the systems, get points all the time and don't usually face these issues - I mean your regular joes, have no real issues with these things by doing just the bare minmum.

Again, I absolutely agree that there are worthy exceptions to this and airlines shoud examine on a case by case basis, and I also agree that they should be far more proactive(or made to be) and transparent - put the expiry date back into account summaries (many airlines, hotel chanins etc do this), and do more to be upfront about the expiry.. it's likely this would have to be regulated in some form or other though, whhich governments are loath to do in these sorts of situations, so the airlines can get away with this sort of thing.

Probably something like the Fair Trading(?) edict in NSW re gift vouchers expiry date which has forced QF to extend to 3 years needs to happen with this sort of thing.

Again though, I still say that at some point inattention by people shouldn't be an excuse to jump up and down like a pork chop and demand entitltment.

 

[drron]

It took a long time but thanks to some behind the scenes help from a couple of AFFers the points were returned.Immediately flipped to KF.
PS we did discover that she had had a flight on VA about 12 months before which was not in her account so the whole thing shouldn't have happened.

 

[drron]

And today comes an email from AA with my monthly summary.And right next to my accumulated mileage is this-Miles
expire*:
30/11/2019
So QF and VA about time you did something similar.

 

[serfty]

And today comes an email from AA with my monthly summary.And right next to my accumulated mileage is this-Miles
expire*:
30/11/2019
So QF and VA about time you did something similar.

Forget the email - just log on and access your AAdvantage account "Wallet":

 

[drron]

But I am trying to be OT and help those who never look at their account.

 

[Moody]

Forget the email - just log on and access your AAdvantage account "Wallet":

View attachment 131925

Why should Qantas actively or passively provide their less loyal customers with anything but the most vague hint that something of value is about to be stripped from them? I didn't pick you guys as commies!

 

[drron]

You just never know what is hidden in our closets.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF *used* to be very clear about expiry dates... I have printed statements that show it, and it used to be online. At some point, a specific decision was taken to remove this information from online summaries etc. It's not that they can't do it, it's that they choose to not provide this information because it suits their own purposes to do so. They would spin it as something like less clutter or focusing on the interests of the customer or some rubbish but it's clear the choices are deliberate. They do the minimum under their own T&C to "inform" customers then when points expire etc... hey presto challenge to get them back by spending more to earn more.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory or something, and I don't mean it like that - it's quite clear to me that the intent absolutely is to reduce their liability by not actively discouraging breakage. I think many would feel it was sneaky because it catches the unwary and inattentive out and certainly doesn't seem fair on a number of levels even if I would be the first to argue if you got an email saying your points will expire and do nothing well there's no responsibility on you there (but not all).

I can certainly see the issues.