Losing QFF points and calling in the media

[mannej]

I just received an email from the NSW TAB-I hold an account that basically gets used once a year for small Melb Cup bets. The email subject was "Your TAB Reward Points Are Due to Expire." When opening the email this is what I see first

I have 137 points-Apparently 600 points gets you a $2 bonus bet.
I understand they were apparently caught out previously with poor money laundering tracking, but seems they can get the message "up front & centre "

So similar to the Expiry e-mail displayed post 4 of this thread then?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I just received an email from the NSW TAB-I hold an account that basically gets used once a year for small Melb Cup bets. The email subject was "Your TAB Reward Points Are Due to Expire." When opening the email this is what I see first

"

Airline loyalty programs and non-airline loyalty programs are VERY VERY VERY different business models with different accounting standards and audit requirements. Additionally, the commercial matrix of airline vs non-airline loyalty program basically mean they don't compete. Heck - I'd bet my first born that TAB REWARDS is a major financial drain on TAB. Whereas, QF Loyalty has a revenue value creation halo effect on the rest of the Qantas Group, driving far more revenue indirectly.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[cwd]

Airline loyalty programs and non-airline loyalty programs are VERY VERY VERY different business models with different accounting standards and audit requirements. Additionally, the commercial matrix of airline vs non-airline loyalty program basically mean they don't compete. Heck - I'd bet my first born that TAB REWARDS is a major financial drain on TAB. Whereas, QF Loyalty has a revenue value creation halo effect on the rest of the Qantas Group, driving far more revenue indirectly.

Apples and Oranges.

As a consumer, is that my concern?

 

[RB]

Airline loyalty programs and non-airline loyalty programs are VERY VERY VERY different business models with different accounting standards and audit requirements. Additionally, the commercial matrix of airline vs non-airline loyalty program basically mean they don't compete. Heck - I'd bet my first born that TAB REWARDS is a major financial drain on TAB. Whereas, QF Loyalty has a revenue value creation halo effect on the rest of the Qantas Group, driving far more revenue indirectly.

Apples and Oranges.

Maybe Apples & Oranges in your eyes but the crux of my post was to highlight they are able to headline the email & cut to the chase- so it can be done. I think you have overead things & don't need to risk your first born-as I said I only bet on Melb Cup day

 

[serfty]

So similar to the Expiry e-mail displayed post 4 of this thread then?

If you look at the article, the newsletter sent in (mid?) October last year has the warning but is not so prominent as that in post 4.

They did not read this email until it was too late.

 

[RB]

So similar to the Expiry e-mail displayed post 4 of this thread then?

I am not sure the email in Post 4 is good reflection of what the general membership receive?

 

[serfty]

I do think Qantas have changed their processes in the last 12 months, but until they put the actual month of last activity back into their activity statements, it's meaningless.

 

[rock86]

Airline loyalty programs and non-airline loyalty programs are VERY VERY VERY different business models with different accounting standards and audit requirements. Additionally, the commercial matrix of airline vs non-airline loyalty program basically mean they don't compete. Heck - I'd bet my first born that TAB REWARDS is a major financial drain on TAB. Whereas, QF Loyalty has a revenue value creation halo effect on the rest of the Qantas Group, driving far more revenue indirectly.

Apples and Oranges.

While they certainly are different business models, the accounting standards for loyalty schemes remain the same.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I understand some loyalty programs offer compassionate terms in many cases for points expiring, short on status qualification etc.

What does everyone think about cancer as a compassionate reason (as per OP)? Keeping these two factors in mind?

Cancer risk for 1 in 3 Australians - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare
Cancer now more common than getting married or having a first baby

 

[RichardMEL]

I understand some loyalty programs offer compassionate terms in many cases for points expiring, short on status qualification etc.

What does everyone think about cancer as a compassionate reason (as per OP)? Keeping these two factors in mind?

Cancer risk for 1 in 3 Australians - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare
Cancer now more common than getting married or having a first baby

Sure... except then if you accept Cancer as a reason to allow a pause pon an account or something, then where do you draw the line? Is it Cancer of the member? Or the member's puse? Or family member? What about their pet? And well hey, what if it's not cancer, but it's Kidney Failure, or Severe Mental Illness/Depression, or some other chronic disease?

I do NOT belittle any of these in any way, but more my point is as soon as you set up special exemptions then you open up a can of worms IMHO. Soon people will whine because well they know someone at work who has cancer and thus their points shouldn't expire. Probably extreme example yes, but you all know what I mean. Open the door a crack being reasonable and compassionate, and the hoarde will then break the bloody thing down.

In a way, having the pregnancy pause is similar, but at least a pregnancy is a common, known, finite (it doesn't usually take much longer than the standard 9 months ) event.. other events in a person's life, such as dealing with an ongoing chronic illness do not.

And let's take the "1 in 3" number above for Cancert, and apply that to 10 million QFF memberships, so that's 3 million accounts. Goodness, they might as well just open it up to everyone! And that won't happen.

Again, don't think my comments construe anything negative about ot towards those suffering chronic diseases (I myself was grounded from travel for over 5 years).. I am just trying to respond to the point.

And as to the notification issue... I agree QF are not as upfront as some on expiry, as noted by many and I absolutely htink they could do much better... but by the same token it doesn't matter WHAT you do... send emails every week and there will always be a certain number of folks who just won't take notice... and at what point is it reasonable or unreasonable. JohnK wants phone calls on top of emails.. come on... maybe Julie Citizen doesn't care if her 500 QFF points will expire and would be annouyed by a call, not to mention the cost and resources deployed, which will be reflected in even higher fares and other charges... which people would whine about.

You will NEVER satisfy everyone. I also think that some people need to put their hand up and take responsibility.

 

[Moody]

And as to the notification issue... I agree QF are not as upfront as some on expiry, as noted by many and I absolutely htink they could do much better... but by the same token it doesn't matter WHAT you do... send emails every week and there will always be a certain number of folks who just won't take notice... and at what point is it reasonable or unreasonable. JohnK wants phone calls on top of emails.. come on... maybe Julie Citizen doesn't care if her 500 QFF points will expire and would be annouyed by a call, not to mention the cost and resources deployed, which will be reflected in even higher fares and other charges... which people would whine about.

You will NEVER satisfy everyone. I also think that some people need to put their hand up and take responsibility.

A simple SMS is adequate by any criteria. Plenty of government and non-government (and scurrilous) organisations use SMS for all sorts of notifications. Qantas do too in other situations (e.g. - flight changes)..... only it is not to their advantage to do so in this case, so they don't.

That is indefensible in my opinion.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The bottom line is very simple. If qantas wanted to get the message across, they could.

I get daily emails from qantas regarding health insurance, fitness, qantas cash, epicure. They’re not averse to sending out multiple messages. Sometimes daily.

Could they target those with expiring points? Sure they can. I was getting two or three times weekly messages asking me to convert my Wollies points to QF points. As soon as i eventually made the change, the reminder messages stopped.

So they could do the same for points that are about to expire, sending daily messages until action is taken.

But they don’t seem to have any commercial interest to do that.

 

[kapook]

Very valid points raised.

 

[JohnK]

But they don’t seem to have any commercial interest to do that.

Your guaranteed share of 30 millions Qantas points is waiting is much more important email to send out daily.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF "don't have a commercial interest" in notifying people? of course they do.

It is in their interest to have the psillage. That's free money (ie: liability off the books) each point that expires.

That's the crux of it for me.

So, by the letter of the programme T&C and probably some sort of law they notify people via the newsletter etc and can claim "Yes, we informed the customer" even if it's not that obvious. The cynic in me suggests it's quite deliberate that they do not go out of their way to hilight it. That would be customer friendly.... As we all know many things QF do are hardly customer friendly or focused.

I do like the SMS idea. Easy to automate.. costs far less than a person to person call. That seems reasonable.

Except in the case people do not have mobile phones registered..

 

[teamhamsandwich]

Queue up the "I've change my phone number and didn't get the text" complaints.

 

[mannej]

Queue up the "I've change my phone number and didn't get the text" complaints.

Where do you draw the line?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Where do you draw the line?

I’d reckon the same line as qantas uses when they have a commercial interest to plug a product where they make money. Emails two or three times weekly until action is taken by the recipient (like health insurance, epicure, woollies conversions)

 

[Himeno]

(like health insurance, epicure, woollies conversions)

Except I keep getting emails about all 3 of those examples. However;
Health Insurance: They know I don't want it - too expensive.
Epicure: My profile tells them that I have no interest in Alcohol and not to email me about liquor.
Woolworths: I already have it set to convert, and have done so since day 1. Which again, Qantas knows.

I keep getting emails from Qantas marketing about things that Qantas knows they shouldn't be sending me stuff about.

 

[RichardMEL]

Where do you draw the line?

Exactly my point earlier in this thread that some people don't seem to want to accept.

There will ALWAYS be people who you can't get throught to (eg: members without mobile phones who only get paper statements no email etc).. a very small number yes, but certainly you can't cater to everyone in these sorts of situations without a massive cost hit (eg: do you send those people snail mail? do you phone their landline until someone answers and hope they don't hang up on you thinking you're a scammer or telemarketer etc?).

Again, that the VAST majority of people out there seem to handle the system just fine, even the infrequent flyers, to know to keep active vs the vocal minority who feel they should be spoon fed and hand held to the nth degree doesn't always mean it is reasonable to cater to the nth degree. IMO