Losing QFF points and calling in the media

[Moody]

Exactly my point earlier in this thread that some people don't seem to want to accept.

Only because it's unacceptable.

There will ALWAYS be people who you can't get throught to (eg: members without mobile phones who only get paper statements no email etc).

Here is my profile. Note the non-optional Mobile Number field. Note the purpose for which it is used. Sending a points expiry message would not be too hard, wouldn't you agree?

 

[mannej]

Here is my profile. Note the non-optional Mobile Number field. Note the purpose for which it is used. Sending a points expiry message would not be too hard, wouldn't you agree?

View attachment 127556

That only works if the member has kept their information up to date...

 

[RichardMEL]

Only because it's unacceptable.



Here is my profile. Note the non-optional Mobile Number field. Note the purpose for which it is used. Sending a points expiry message would not be too hard, wouldn't you agree?

Sorry, but you appear to have not read my previous comments, or I was not clear.

I had earlier said I thought a text was a grea idea and is the middle ground between only sending an email and the costly idea of phone calls. I like it!

My point in the post in which you replied to is that that's reat for those that have mobiles, and keep those details up to date.. but what if they do not? What if the details are not up to date.. what if for some reason they don't get the text.. what if they just delete it as spam?

I was trying to say you can go to the nth degree to try nd inform everyone and someone will ALWAYS have an argument as to why somehow they didn't know... and how valid that reason might be is going to be subjective to the reader... which gets back to the origin of this thread "I had cancer and was dealing with that so didn't read the email till it was too late" - they never disputed that QF advised them or that they understood their points were to expire, they said they did not read it in time due to dealing with cancer. Some people will accept this as reasonable, others will not... and for thos ethat think that's reasonable, then where do you draw the line as to what is a reasonabele reason to get expired points back without a challenge or anything? And many of these things are subjective and hard to "prove" one way or the other IMHO. eg "I didn't get the email" could be anything from their email address changed to they read it and forgot it, or it went into their junk folder for some reason.. or anything in between including an ISP failure. Some of those reasons are valid, others not so muc (in my view).

So, I was NOT objecting to a text being sent - relatively easy for QF to do, nd easily automated. Absolutely. It would not work for all members however.

 

[Moody]

Sorry, but you appear to have not read my previous comments, or I was not clear.

I had earlier said I thought a text was a grea idea and is the middle ground between only sending an email and the costly idea of phone calls. I like it!
.....

So, I was NOT objecting to a text being sent - relatively easy for QF to do, nd easily automated. Absolutely. It would not work for all members however.

I think we are violently agreeing with each other that an SMS is desired, and violently disagreeing with each other that it should be required.

Qantas emails? I barely glance at them sometimes, as they are borderline SPAM. Might read through them 10% of the time.
Qantas SMS? (Actually any SMS) I always read.

For those that choose to live in a mobile-free world (or deign not to provide the number to Qantas) - you're on your own.

 

[RichardMEL]

I think we are violently agreeing with each other that an SMS is desired, and violently disagreeing with each other that it should be required.

Qantas emails? I barely glance at them sometimes, as they are borderline SPAM. Might read through them 10% of the time.
Qantas SMS? (Actually any SMS) I always read.

For those that choose to live in a mobile-free world (or deign not to provide the number to Qantas) - you're on your own.

Interesting line of demarcation IMHO.

You admit you barely read all the QF emails (and yes, between the QF hotels and epiqure and sale emails there's a lot that come through, though one can opt out of most of that if one wishes) so you're saying that for you, an email notifying you that your posts would expire may probably get lost in the forrest of QF emails and not be read, but would read a text.. well that's fine for you, but say someone doesn't have/give a mobile number but gets emails.. you say they're on their own, but if QF send a notice in email that they read... then they're notified.

It seems to me that we disagree to the point of *what( is required.. and that seems subjective. I argue that all QF is required to do is notify the member in a reasonable way. They choose email. Is it QF's fault if a member does not read said email for whatever reason? Now sure, one's points expiriing is a little more important than a "double points on hotels worldwide" or "go visit tassie because it's great" email - obviously... but it's also your choice as to what you read or not isn't it?

I would think a reasonable "solution" for QF might be:

- if user has "QF news / program updates"(I forget the setting in the profile for email preferences, but it's something like this) set to receive, then email them.
- if user does not, or has not provided an email address then send a text to nominated mobile number
- if there is no email contact or mobile number then send a letter to postal address

Would that seem reasonable?

Again, let's remember here that QF only has to satisfy it's own T&C of the program to be complying (in the eyes of bods like fair trading)... if one's notifications are set to receive email then sending a notification in email surely is not unreasonable.

If the member reads that notification or discards it as junk is surely not QF's problem / fault is it?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What is 'reasonable' will depend on the individual I suppose. I would deem it reasonable that QF apply as much effort to notifying points expiry as they do to everything else. Multiple emails, weekly, until the issue is rectified (account reactivated) or the time period elapses.

It's not unreasonable to send out emails and text messages. They could even send a 50 cent letter.

If they can send me twice weekly Qantas cash or life assurance emails, they can send me twice weekly points expiry messages.

 

[RichardMEL]

I agree in principle except for ...

1. QF has incentive to try and sell yoiu cough like QF Cash, epiqure, sale fares and other offers to generate revenue
2. QF has zero incentive to actively "help" you retain the points

That's the business view of it

for the customer side sure... absolutely keep hand holding until the member does something to help themselves...

and if you have say 250 points and keep getting cough about it expiring and you don't care.. to you that's annoying spam

it's all relative about what is reasonable - as you point out.



I'm not a driver but I wonder how many reminders do you get that your drivers license is going to expire? or something like that?

I know with US ESTA they send an email when it's about to expire.. but that's it.. they don't do anything further

As I've said before I am in the camp that feels people should have some responsibility for such things. If you let your drivers license expire and get pulled over by the cops they won't care that you didn't know or forgot. If your ESTA expires and you go to enter the US they won't care you didn't read the email reminding you.

I know I am hitting my head against a brick wall here and the majority do not seem to agree with me about this and there are ALWAYS reasomable exceptions to the rules for individual cases... I am all for self management and responsibility. That's just me.

 

[VPS]

How frequent flyer points reward airlines

Interesting article and more people complaining about losing points

 

[love_the_life]

How frequent flyer points reward airlines

Interesting article and more people complaining about losing points

Just read the article as well.

 

[burmans]

How frequent flyer points reward airlines

Interesting article and more people complaining about losing points

Saw this last night on theBusiness, actually was about to go to bed and heard something about someone losing 3M points and decided to listen.

 

[love_the_life]

Saw this last night on theBusiness, actually was about to go to bed and heard something about someone losing 3M points and decided to listen.

The article example is someone with 300,000 points. Was there really someone with 3M points or was it an error/beat up on by the media?

 

[Himeno]

I know with US ESTA they send an email when it's about to expire.. but that's it.. they don't do anything further

I know I am hitting my head against a brick wall here and the majority do not seem to agree with me about this and there are ALWAYS reasomable exceptions to the rules for individual cases... I am all for self management and responsibility. That's just me.

I know when my ESTA expires, and don't need an email to tell me. I'd expect to get said email in another 6 weeks.
It should be easier to keep track of when things like licenses expire as the date is printed on the card, while the only way to see an ESTA expiry date is when you get it and if you remember the number to log in to the CBP site with.

I don't know why it's hard to keep track of this stuff.

 

[ric_melb]

Not a bad article, but the two customers that had points expire had flown with Qantas for 18 and 20+ years. Therefore they were experienced Qantas flyers.
I think they could have kept tabs on their points better than they did. It is not hard to have one points transaction in 18 months.

 

[burmans]

The article example is someone with 300,000 points. Was there really someone with 3M points or was it an error/beat up on by the media?

Not really sure, I heard the 3M points from another room and that's what prompted me to move and watch the rest of the segment but had not been watching before that so dont have the context if it was the same person (error) or someone totally different.

 

[burmans]

It is not hard to have one points transaction in 18 months.

Agree that in these days its extremely easy to get a few points here and there, and they do add up.

 

[serfty]

Not a bad article, but the two customers that had points expire had flown with Qantas for 18 and 20+ years. Therefore they were experienced Qantas flyers.
I think they could have kept tabs on their points better than they did. It is not hard to have one points transaction in 18 months.

I know most regulars here keep an eye on things and are unlikely to have such happen to them.

I try to envisage how this may occur.

If you regularly earn points over a long period, say from flying, you might not develop a regimen to keep them active ... as it always "just" happened.

Maybe your Qantas statement goes to your work email.

Then you stop for whatever reason (retire?), time goes by, you are disracted, reminders still go to your now defunct email and you forget.

I have to keep my eye on some of my admittedly small hotel balances - awardwallet is useful for this.

 

[NSun]

Not a bad article, but the two customers that had points expire had flown with Qantas for 18 and 20+ years. Therefore they were experienced Qantas flyers.
I think they could have kept tabs on their points better than they did. It is not hard to have one points transaction in 18 months.

The majority of articles about this issue would make people who don't know about the QFF system that it is only possible to earn points from flying. In this case would be understandable for people to grieve about their points vanishing because events can happen (such as illnesses) that can keep people 'grounded'. But with dozens of ways to earn or redeem points, from walking apps to Uber, if you did not use your account for 18 months its not unreasonable to ask if they were concerned about points expiring in the first place.

 

[RichardMEL]

The majority of articles about this issue would make people who don't know about the QFF system that it is only possible to earn points from flying. In this case would be understandable for people to grieve about their points vanishing because events can happen (such as illnesses) that can keep people 'grounded'. But with dozens of ways to earn or redeem points, from walking apps to Uber, if you did not use your account for 18 months its not unreasonable to ask if they were concerned about points expiring in the first place.

I would agree about the perception, generally, that FF programs rely on flying activity to obtain points however once you join the sheer deluge of emails for ways to earn points via credit cards, hotels, car rentals, holidays, woolies, the mall, etc etc etc are such that you'd have to be disconnected from reality more or less to not know. I get chronic illness being an issue. I was grounded for 5 years myself. Short of being in a coma or something I am not sure how someone, in this day and age, could not be aware of other ways to earn points.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I think we are violently agreeing with each other that an SMS is desired, and violently disagreeing with each other that it should be required.

Qantas emails? I barely glance at them sometimes, as they are borderline SPAM. Might read through them 10% of the time.
Qantas SMS? (Actually any SMS) I always read.

For those that choose to live in a mobile-free world (or deign not to provide the number to Qantas) - you're on your own.

Should we add to the list those that don't update their mobile details to their frequent flyer profile?

There are heaps of people who still have ff cards from way back minus the chip & QF Mastercard because they haven't updated their address details. Same same if they have changed their mobile number ie not updated their ff profile.

IMHO sending an sms would make bugger all difference because it still requires people to take initiative to update their personal details. Even if they don't do that they will still cry foul when they lose their points because it's always somebody else's fault.

 

[burmans]

IMHO sending an sms would make bugger all difference because it still requires people to take initiative to update their personal details. Even if they don't do that they will still cry foul when they lose their points because it's always somebody else's fault.

ANd we we are back to the argument that people should take responsibility for their own actions rather than always blaming others.

This requirement is not new and was in the T&C's we all signed up to.