Losing QFF points and calling in the media

[RB]

Why should points that you've earned in good faith expire in the first place? The whole point of QFF is to inspire and promote loyalty...

Because they are the rules that the company has set & reveals them before you join? If you don't like those rules you have the option not to include yourself.
I haven't put points into KrisFlyer because the terms of the program do not suit me. I earnt a few points flying in India but knew I would never use the so didn't bother.
I am sure there are other examples in the frequent flyer world

 

[JohnK]

Why should points that you've earned in good faith expire in the first place? The whole point of QFF is to inspire and promote loyalty...

In the eyes of Qantas loyalty is a one way street.

Fight and continue to fight for your rights. I fought for expired Agoda credit and won. I fought Hilton for expiring Hhonors points. I fought Just mobile for expiring phone credit a couple of times.

 

[love_the_life]

They are know it all, smarty pants academics from, where else, Canberra. Of course they expect to be treated differently.

I resemble that! She does happen to be at UNSW Canberra but this was not noted in the article at all (the Canberra Times is part of Fairfax so she could have lived anywhere). This is not to say I agree with their view that QFF has treated them unfairly.
Your response sounds like you are going in for a bit of the national sport of Canberra bashing. Others views may vary

 

[UP4014]

Because they are the rules that the company has set & reveals them before you join? If you don't like those rules you have the option not to include yourself.
I haven't put points into KrisFlyer because the terms of the program do not suit me. I earnt a few points flying in India but knew I would never use the so didn't bother.
I am sure there are other examples in the frequent flyer world

I think when I joined they lasted forever, only recently (say 10 years) it's become 18 months. Perhaps someone can check my memory on that one.

 

[VPS]

I would suspect that there are thousands of people who lose money regularly on gift cards when they don't check the expiry (moi) and I do think Qantas needs to set up a process where they send three emails as per the Facebook photo above and if they are ignored then tough ie don't bury them in another email.

 

[Franky]

Others views may vary [/QUOTE

Not mine!

 

[burmans]

Why should points that you've earned in good faith expire in the first place? The whole point of QFF is to inspire and promote loyalty...

It dont want to sound cynical but I doubt very much is is actually Qantas's aim for them to be loyal to us but rather for us to be loyal to them. The frequent flyer program is a business and makes good money for them. They may well want their customers to feel some loyalty to them but it has and always has been a very one sided relationship.

The smarter of us (and I put most on this forum un this category) recognise this and act accordingly.

 

[mannej]

Given the expiry is abitrary I think Qantas should offer an exception.
However, I think they have already done that.
No extra outlay is necessary - everyone has $5k of bills in 6 months, just use the Qantas Cash card as Qantas told them.

QCash is 1pt for $4 spent domestically.

 

[Skyring]

They are know it all, smarty pants academics from, where else, Canberra. Of course they expect to be treated differently.

I think battling cancer is reason enough to want different treatment. When you don't know if you'll still be around from month to month, your views change from what is normal.

 

[opusman]

I think when I joined they lasted for ever, only recently (say 10 years) it's become 18 months. Perhaps someone can check my memory on that one.

Yes don't remember when but they used to not expire at all, then it was 24 months and now 18.

Qantas have made a commercial decision that points expire without activity and have also chosen to not go too far out of their way to inform people in advance. One result of that decision is they open themselves up to media criticism at times. I don't see why they should be beyond reproach just because "it's the rules".

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Do you think a member who is inactive for 18 months is disengaged, or, a member who has points expiring becomes dis-engaged?

This is not a bank account folks!

 

[RichardMEL]

No expiry of points and if they do expire make sure the person knows they are about to expire.

Burying the expiry of points into an email that most people don't read is not adequate.

Except that the article states they HAD gotten the email but did not read it in time. I'm sorry but you can't blame QF (or any company) for people not reading their email. They don't contend that they were not warned.. they admit freely they did not read the message.

Now sure, going through chemo etc is difficult and your mind and priorities are elsewhere, but how is QF supposed to know that? They have acted within the terms of the program and notified the customer.

Given the expiry is abitrary I think Qantas should offer an exception.
However, I think they have already done that.
No extra outlay is necessary - everyone has $5k of bills in 6 months, just use the Qantas Cash card as Qantas told them.

Sorry how are the points expiry "arbitary"???? It's 18 months since the last activity. That is the T&C. That is set.

Of course if the lady in question had a Qantas Cash setup, or even linked in woolies, or anything like that the points would not have expired so.. yeah

Why should points that you've earned in good faith expire in the first place? The whole point of QFF is to inspire and promote loyalty...

Because it's loyalty NOW, not loyalty over time.. and by "loyalty now" they really mean "revenue NOW"

Sure, FF started back in the day (by AA IIRC) as a way to acknowledge the road warriers and give them something a little bit back so they could feel that love and of course come back. These days it's a business unit that generates money.. sometimes more than entire airline unites (eg: I think QF Loyalty has bigger profits than QF Domestic and probably JQ and heck maybe even QF International as separate units).

Why do gift cards from retailers etc expire? Liability on the books for one, and half hese things are issued with an eye to an expected level of "spillage"(ie: forgotten and unredeemed) which is money in the bank for these people. Is it morally fair? I don't know that's a vexing issue but it is very common business practice to have expiry.... mostly for the liability I think, though in the case of git cards not really, since they have your money (or whoever bought them) but points are definitely an item on the books.

In the eyes of Qantas loyalty is a one way street.

Fight and continue to fight for your rights. I fought for expired Agoda credit and won. I fought Hilton for expiring Hhonors points. I fought Just mobile for expiring phone credit a couple of times.

OR maybe a novel approach? Keep the accounts active so points or credits don't expire? It's NOT that hard to keep track of.. and if something does expire, then it's probably not that important in the first place.

I was effectively grounded for nigh on 5 years for health reasons a decade or so back but I kept my loyalty accounts active with a shop here or a hotel stay there or whatever .. if it mattered and I had a goal I made note to do so. Just at the end of last year I realised I couldn't fit in a hilton stay to keep me active so I did a points transfer. These things are NOT that hard to manage (IMHO).. and no I don't spend all day on this stuff I have a day job and all the rest.

my 2 cents.

 

[RichardMEL]

I think battling cancer is reason enough to want different treatment. When you don't know if you'll still be around from month to month, your views change from what is normal.

I do not mean to sound insensitive with this response but I disagree to a large degree.

Why? Not because I think cancer is trivial or battling a chronic disease is insignificant. I have one myself.

However where do you draw the line on "special treatment"?

And honestly, QF's response, to offer a challenge is a fair (I think) response. If they just give points back because of a medical thing well next people can claim mental health as a reason, or their dog died (I am an animal lover for the record) or any number of reasons tha to varying audiences may seem legitimate or not.

QF did not dismiss their claim and say go away. They offered a compromise challenge.

The husband saying they felt neglected and insulted is a joke just designed to make them the victims here when they also admitted they hey they did not see the warning email(but they did get it) in time - which is not QF's fault. Oh the poor old couple battling cancer v the horrible uncaring corporate entity.. tonight on A Current Affair at 6.

I don't buy it. They claim to be "loyal" Frequent Flyers for 16 or whatever years... by that I take it to mean they have accounts and have flown a bit. Sure 150k points is a fair amount to attain specially if through flying, but if they were that loyal over that long, they'd have been bored to death from all the QF spam about how to earn points via linked credit cards, or woolies, or QF Cash, or staying at a hotel, or renting acar or (insert a hundred more options here). Clearly they did not.. because if they even did the simplest of things their points wouldn't have expired through every day use that even people going through chemo have to do (eg: shopping for groceries, paying bills, etc).

I feel the jumping on the media bandwagon will get them their points back because.. yeah kick up a stink and QF will cave, but it annoys me because there's a degree of entitlement to this as well.

I'm all for people being compassionate and caring and everything don't get me wrong, but I'm also all for adults standing p and taking responsibility. This is not even a case of "QF never told us" - they said in the article as much. QF have offered a challenge. Now yes, from their point of view they *think* it would cost thousands to get.... so yeah they need some education.. but for heaven's sake you've come though chemo work with it instead of crying woe is us victim stuff at the media.

This one leaves me cold and I'm sure I'll be flamed for it, but I just don't like the way they appear to have gone about this

(and yes, if hubby still flies and stuff.. do a transfer or anything.. that's ignorance but that's also not really QF's fault)


oh and to whoever posted above sugesting QF should have made follow up emails or calls.. sorry?? I expect thousands a month have points balamnces expire due to zero action... are QF going to call up everyone, with most of them having been one time flyers or so to remind them? Most won't care... and further the few agents they have working the phones are already not enough given the huge wait times...

does everyone expect their hand to be held and then reminded several times? It's not high school you know....

 

[JohnK]

OR maybe a novel approach? Keep the accounts active so points or credits don't expire? It's NOT that hard to keep track of.. and if something does expire, then it's probably not that important in the first place.

I fail to understand the concept of expiring loyalty points that have been earned fair and square.

It is wrong and companies shouldn't be able to profit from it.

 

[Flying Fox]

I fail to understand the concept of expiring loyalty points that have been earned fair and square.

It is wrong and companies shouldn't be able to profit from it.

Worse than this is a gift card/voucher paid for in cash expiring. There really is no reason for this. However, I'm sure that its all been factored into the company profits somewhere.

 

[JohnK]

Worse than this is a gift card/voucher paid for in cash expiring. There really is no reason for this. However, I'm sure that its all been factored into the company profits somewhere.

That one should not be allowed. Not sure how they get away with it.

I had a Qantas gift voucher that I had purchased expiring that day and I rushed to book flights and double booked a flight that is now going to cost me $100 to change.

 

[Wanderlust_tim]

I wonder what this has cost Qantas in lost goodwill and damage to the brand? Looking purely objectively, it seems to me that the negative publicity would far outweigh the financial cost of the points in this circumstance.

 

[RichardMEL]

These are separate arguments in my view.

1. Should points/vouchers expire yes or no
2. wha happens when they do

This whole thread is (or should be?) about 2.. because that's what the story is about.

As for 1. I agree with the principle absolutely if one buys a gift voucher or similar it has a value in dollars that was paid for, and should not expire because it was paid for and until redeemed, in theory has value. the problem of course is that the company has the money if you use it or not. With loyalty points it's slightly different in my view but similar. Again though, the company who issues them - be it QF, Hilton or whoever, owns them and it's their terms you have to deal with.

So these companies who issue these instruments control the "currency" and what you can do with it and that's the problem we have in reality.

I just recalled the other week I went to BurgerEdge with a card I have for their loyalty thing which doesn't expire.. I go there maybe twice or 3 times a year, so yeah nothing.. but I remmebered I had these points and I felt like a "free" burger so I went in gave them the card and said yeah I want such and such with the points. The clueless operators a) didn't seem to know how to swipe the card to registe and then b) didn't seem to know what to do with the system (clearly people don't do this much with them it seems!) end result they couldn't or wouldn't in that case honour the points I had. My choices were basically suck it up and buy the meal I ordered or not. Now this time it was clearly the ineptitude of ALL the staff in this outlet but practically at that point in time I could do nothing about it, but I;'d earned those points. Now hey it's like $20 worth so let's not overstate this or my angst but it was annoying to be sure. My point is that essentiully those points were held by the company and it was up to them. This crew didn't seem inclined to make any real effort like calling someone for help to sort it out or something they just wanted to sell burgers. I get that but hey... for that one instance I "lost" the value of those points as I was unable to use them.

Maybe I'll call ACA...

 

[RichardMEL]

I wonder what this has cost Qantas in lost goodwill and damage to the brand? Looking purely objectively, it seems to me that the negative publicity would far outweigh the financial cost of the points in this circumstance.

Likely correct... but the timeline probably went something like this...

She gets through her chemo (hooray!) and her and hubby decide they want to use their points to go someplace to celebrate. great idea!
- she logs in oh no no points. they've gone.
- finds the exping points email (or maybe this was the trigger rather than looking to book)
- complains to QF
- QF does their now standard approach of a challenge
- she doesn't like it because it's not what she expected and thinks it will cost the earth
- couple go to media (and airline obudsman thingy) and make a big deal

So sure, no doubt she has her points, but the damage is done. QF weren't to know they would go make a big deal in the media and were following procedure.

You know though, like the QF fog delays at DXB, or other A380 issues over the years, or the fleet grounding a few years back or.. all the rest... the brand will survive. There's always people coughing and moaning and "I'll never fly you again!" stuff (just look at the QF FB any given minute for the usual mix) but you know, there's also those saing the same about VA, or SQ(yes, SQ!) r EK or whoever and decide to go to QF... or most likely the price for any particular trip wins out.

this is a minor issue in reality.

 

[mannej]

I wonder what this has cost Qantas in lost goodwill and damage to the brand? Looking purely objectively, it seems to me that the negative publicity would far outweigh the financial cost of the points in this circumstance.

Qantas would know the overall damage is bugger all.

I’d seem to think that the negative publicity would only be temporary for cases like this.