Loyalty Bonus changing from 1 July 2013

[MEL_Traveller]

ASA's, int upgrade confirmation 7 days out, domestic row 1 selection, additional award flights, free int exit row seats, free epiqure membership.

I don't mind loyalty bonus based upon QF flight numbers......please just don't cap them.

hmmm - I don't see most of this as an enhancement! ASAs... well ok, but plats used to be able to request a seat to be released anyway. Row 1 - we used to get that. Confirmed upgrades 7 days out? That's a bit of a joke given every other airline allows you to confirm at time of booking. (So it cannot be a benefit!). Free exits - platinum used to get those anyway. And let's not forget about exit rows... remember airlines told us they could never ever ever be assigned in advance because of 'safety reasons'. Then all of a sudden they could, for $160.

 

[CaviAck]

Still does not answer why one would pay for the SC's and QFF points as an extra on JQ if they are not to be counted.

Because not everyone is aiming for the 500SC for the loyalty bonus? People who only just qualify for/retain silver will never get to see one.

Although I'll hit SG and 760SC this year I will never see so much as 300SC again for the next 5 years. The SC's paid for on JQ will however allow me to add towards LTS and points and maintaining the 250SC required to requalify PS. $25 for 2143 points (and after SG expires 1837 points) and 20SC isn't too bad a price to pay as I'll consider that as a pre-payment towards a YASA/JASA. The cost of the fare itself is irrelevant as it will be spent anyway.

 

[scheps]

Haven't had time to read much of this thread, as it is growing so rapidly, cant keep up!

But really, this will not change what the majority of us would do, and QF is saving money/points/resources.

We cant really do anything but cop it on the chin and they know that.

 

[serfty]

oh! ok. Good point. I thought I remembered upgrading in very early 2000ish though - ...)

I was thinking about this while flying back to Mel this afternoon.

I am not familiar with the AN frequent Flyer program, but at the time AN had begun international flights - maybe they had a international upgrade option and QFF decided to
compete? Of course this is pure conjecture.

Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[katiebell]

I have seen one real PAX benny introduced - until the late 1990's / early 2000's International upgrades with points or certs were simply not available.

before then pax were rewarded with upgrades, at no cost, on check in......

 

[katiebell]

Also it wasn't that long ago that you couldn't upgrade domestic flights online, only ODU in the lounge. I'd also suggest that ASAs are a genuine QFF benefit that has been introduced.

these only happened because DJ offered them and QF had to respond as we couldnever find a redemption seat

 

[katiebell]

Haven't had time to read much of this thread, as it is growing so rapidly, cant keep up!

But really, this will not change what the majority of us would do, and QF is saving money/points/resources.

We cant really do anything but cop it on the chin and they know that.

every change is a step closer to CX marco polo or similar, esp as they have complimnetary upgrades tied to status: no points needed

 

[serfty]

before then pax were rewarded with upgrades, at no cost, on check in......

Until the late nineties, "Complimentary upgrades" were given to top level Gold member (80 flights per year) traveling on flexible economy fares at a frequency of about one in every three segments.¹

This was an "undocumented" policy (a bit like ATA was back then).

When Qantas decided to cease the practice they were kind enough to send letters out to those affected apolgising. (I think I still have mine.) I did not even know there was a term for these upgrades until I received the correspondance.

¹ This ratio was based on a statistical analysis of over 100 flights of three Gold elites between MEL and SYD when it was realised they were happening far to regularly to be random.

 

[Kangol]

every change is a step closer to CX marco polo or similar, esp as they have complimnetary upgrades tied to status: no points needed

How does the CX system work? The only one I know of is the AA EXP one where they get complimentary upgrades for domestic AA flights and for all AA elites when travelling in full fare economy (Y or B class only).

 

[Awesom Andy]

CX does NOT have complimentary upgrades based on status. It's definitely not published, and I'm unaware of such upgrades as unpublished benefits. Op-ups are about the only "upgrades" you can get in this case. They also don't have any loyalty bonus as such, and they don't give out bonus points based on status either. However, they have much lower fuel fines, and the burn ratio is better.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

For mine if the SC's won't count towards the loyalty credits I will after next July now be comparing DJ instead of just booking JQ and paying extra for SC's & points as I do now when I fly domestically when QFis not available.

In some cases the QF website transfers you to JQ when they don't fly there, so seems rather incongrous when they do that.

Seems a strange decision for QF if people now start to look at DJ domestically rather than use JQ and keep it all "in house"

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I think at the very least this should amended to include JQ earning flights in business or where points have been purchased as an extra.

 

[dfcatch]

My only problem with this is for those who live near a port that has been 'Jetstarised'. From NTL, my only *real* choices are JQ or DJ. With this change, JQ flights will not count towards a loyalty bonus at all, despite the fact my $ are still going to the Qantas Group. If you take a look at the JQ website I see numerous references to QFF, including the promotion for the JQ Mastercard.

Whilst I agree with dfcatch's points to some extent, QF has now surely gone past the point of return in regads to JQ and QFF. Look at the ports that QF has pulled out of and handed over to JQ on a silver platter. Surely QFF members near those ports should be able to earn something for suport of the QF group. Let's not forget QF has left domestic NZ as well as numerous SE Asia ports. I also agree that codeshares and reward seats can only cause confusion to pax, but don't agree with loss of earning opportunity for when JQ is the only QF group choice.

A change to QF SCs only for loyalty bonus should surely go back to the pre-2011 system of ' x coughulative QF/JQ/VF/3K SC's earning a bonus of y and then reset - not based on membership year'.

My 2c worth...Don't get me started on JQ - A QF group airline - when it suits us....:evil:

I think you missed my point.

(Although re-reading my text it would be easy to do...).

I actually agree with you 100%.

The issue currently is that QF look at JQ as "a Qantas Group Airline when it suits us".

They Jetstarise a route, then allow QFF award redemptions on it - this allowing them to maintain the pretence of a large award network / international network with a full range of domestic connection options.

The reality as we know, is that QF offer zero incentive for us to keep our spend within the Qantas Group, as they don't allow us to fly QF.
(Paying extra for the privilege of earnings points is NOT an incentive).

The current dynamic encourages QF to continue to hand over routes to the Orange Cancer whilst seeming to maintain a massive network.

My view is that they should either provide decent benefits and incentives to fly JQ (where QF isn't an option), or they should cut the umbilical cord.

If JQ was no longer part of the QFF network, then QF would incur a real competitive penalty by Jetstarising a route and would give a free kick to DJ. Thus discouraging QF from dropping the route in the first place.

Under this scenario - DJ would have a larger network for awards and redemptions than QF in some circumstances.

As an aside - if DJ decided to Tigerise some routes, and force DJ elites onto Tiger..... We wouldn't stand for it.....

Well we shouldn't accept QF doing the same to us with JQ either.

I say dump JQ from QFF and let QF stand on the merits of its own FF program on its own route network and see how it competes.

Bottom line is that a redemption on JQ is not a QF redemption, and for all intents and purposes it's misleading for QFF to offer it to unsuspecting punters.

 

[Fantic125]

Because not everyone is aiming for the 500SC for the loyalty bonus? People who only just qualify for/retain silver will never get to see one.

Although I'll hit SG and 760SC this year I will never see so much as 300SC again for the next 5 years. The SC's paid for on JQ will however allow me to add towards LTS and points and maintaining the 250SC required to requalify PS. $25 for 2143 points (and after SG expires 1837 points) and 20SC isn't too bad a price to pay as I'll consider that as a pre-payment towards a YASA/JASA. The cost of the fare itself is irrelevant as it will be spent anyway.

Thanks CaviAck, I think there's a number of us (myself included) who seem to forget that achieving and retaining PS is an achievement for many people...

 

[amaroo]

I think you missed my point.

(Although re-reading my text it would be easy to do...).

I actually agree with you 100%.

The issue currently is that QF look at JQ as "a Qantas Group Airline when it suits us".

They Jetstarise a route, then allow QFF award redemptions on it - this allowing them to maintain the pretence of a large award network / international network with a full range of domestic connection options.

The reality as we know, is that QF offer zero incentive for us to keep our spend within the Qantas Group, as they don't allow us to fly QF.
(Paying extra for the privilege of earnings points is NOT an incentive).

The current dynamic encourages QF to continue to hand over routes to the Orange Cancer whilst seeming to maintain a massive network.

My view is that they should either provide decent benefits and incentives to fly JQ (where QF isn't an option), or they should cut the umbilical cord.

If JQ was no longer part of the QFF network, then QF would incur a real competitive penalty by Jetstarising a route and would give a free kick to DJ. Thus discouraging QF from dropping the route in the first place.

Under this scenario - DJ would have a larger network for awards and redemptions than QF in some circumstances.

As an aside - if DJ decided to Tigerise some routes, and force DJ elites onto Tiger..... We wouldn't stand for it.....

Well we shouldn't accept QF doing the same to us with JQ either.

I say dump JQ from QFF and let QF stand on the merits of its own FF program on its own route network and see how it competes.

Bottom line is that a redemption on JQ is not a QF redemption, and for all intents and purposes it's misleading for QFF to offer it to unsuspecting punters.

As someone that lives near a non QF port (MCY) I understand your frustrations.

It will be interesting to see what VA do with Tiger.....given JBs history with QF/J* I think it's pretty clear what they are going to do....VA members are in for a rude awakening:!:

 

[JohnK]

Also it wasn't that long ago that you couldn't upgrade domestic flights online, only ODU in the lounge. I'd also suggest that ASAs are a genuine QFF benefit that has been introduced.

Benefiting who? Those that earn their QFF points from credit cards now having an opportunity to sit at the front of the aircraft and earn status at the same time?

Does not benefit me as a Platinum who commutes SYD-BNE weekly.

 

[opusman]

Like it or not, a large component of the QFF program involves points from credit cards. Maybe you should think about getting one

 

[CaviAck]

Thanks CaviAck, I think there's a number of us (myself included) who seem to forget that achieving and retaining PS is an achievement for many people...

For a 19yo student with enthusiasm to fly, hell yeah it is!
I know PS is nothing compared to WP and WP1 but to the majority of people (not on AFF) 20 flights and 40,000 odd miles (with 6 flights and 21,000 miles before end of year) is considered a lot. I'm already known as the frequent flyer out of the people I know. Any chance I get to fly and I grab it with both hands!

(Getting even more OT... Instead of asking for a TV for Christmas, I manage to convince the family to fly DCA-DFW-LAX instead of direct, albeit to the tune of a lot of WTFs and 4 hours of sitting in transit)

Did a quick check on how badly this will hit those AA flyers for the cheap SC, 2,000SC is 14 for simplicity's sake LAX-JFK in A/P/F YUPP fares (I know you guys will be doing LAX-LAS-DFW-ORD-(insert random airport)-JFK-MIA-SJU) earning according to googling flight distances 69,915 points as a NB (the point earn has been adjusted for moving up the status tiers as well for accumulating the 2000SC) or 86,618 as a WP. With the bonus that's 89,915 and 106,618 points respectively. That's a loss of 22.2% starting on NB or 18.8% as a WP. For WP1 this means nothing at all as you'll clock well and truly above 2000SC on QF. Ok so those percentages do seem high, how about the monetary loss? For a pretty lenient 1.5c/point and $2/SC on a YUPP fare into domestic AA First that's a loss of $300 over an outlay of $4,200 (14 LAX-JFK trips is 2,100 SC), by adding the $300 to the $4,200 (because you just lost $300 in benefits meaning realistically fares have gone up $300) that's an increase of fares by 7.1% or if you value your points at 1c/point that's only an increase of 4.8%. Or in other words it goes from $2/SC to $2.15/SC which is still pretty damn good.

At the end of the day all this is doing is increasing the cost of attaining status for those who don't fly with QANTAS, at the worst case scenario of 7.1%, even less if you're finding flights at more than $2/SC. After all QANTAS is a company trying to make a profit, if you're flying with other airlines (even if they're paying QFF for the points) QF won't be making as much profit if you were flying QF. This way they'll win more income from people now flying on QANTAS because of the change or reducing cost by those who fly on other airlines by not having to pay out these bonuses (they still get the money from other airlines paying for points anyway).

Edited to clarify the flight used as an example, wasn't quite clear reading it now...

 

[markis10]

As someone that lives near a non QF port (MCY) It will be interesting to see what VA do with Tiger.....given JBs history with QF/J* I think it's pretty clear what they are going to do....VA members are in for a rude awakening:!:

What history with JB and JQ, he was always in the opposition camp from the moment JQ was formed until the moment Dixon decided to go, placing in direct competition with AJ for the top job. JB was about as anti orange as you could get at QF, a good clue as to why he was overlooked and left.

 

[amaroo]

After 36 years working for QF - he seems to be drawing from the same pool of strategies & putting them in place over at VA.

Buying into LCC is just another one.......dropping some VA sectors & replacing with Tiger seems like the next move that will be copied/implemented.