Loyalty Bonus changing from 1 July 2013

[Isochronous]

Just as well I'll get two loyalty bonuses before that change kicks in!

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Two things do not match up:

QF is cancelling routes (LHR-SIN in my case) so it is harder for me to fly with QF codes.
The QFF still keeps me loyal with QF, but they are reducing the options for me. If possible, QF is still my first priority.
I still am loyal to the Oneworld alliance. This year I will get 400 SCs on QF and the rest with some other Oneworld airlines. So I would get no Loyalty Bonus this year (despite clocking up ~1200 SCs).


As European member my possibilities to earn QFF points are very limited. So it maybe hurts a bit more.

if you are flying to Australia you can still fly QF coded BA flights on LHR-SIN

 

[katiebell]

I actually think this isn't about the reward/return for the SCs themselves this is about people being driven to fly QFi rather than for example BA or CX.[/QUOTE]

QF don't give those not living in SYD much choice: when I need to fly to LHR CX is the only rational choice since QF29/30 ceased operating. I cannot afford to lose a day at each end of my trip (which is the result of flying QF09/10).

How does Marco Polo club compare?

 

[katiebell]

if you are flying to Australia you can still fly QF coded BA flights on LHR-SIN

Will the BA/QF codeshare continue once the JSA finishes?

 

[TheInsider]

Will the BA/QF codeshare continue once the JSA finishes?

Yes, via BKK or SIN i think it was. Don't remember off the top of my head.

 

[markis10]

Yes, via BKK or SIN i think it was. Don't remember off the top of my head.

Both, HKG is the only one ceasing.

 

[MH_fan]

In many ways it is quite a clever change, (although I would have included JQ into this as well). I guess it follows the concept "loyalty bonus" not "fly lots of other OW airlines and we'll give you a bonus" as well.

Are they worried about the mass defections to the new OW carriers coming onboard in 2013 (like MH and QR) as alternatives to travelling to Europe?

 

[serfty]

I always thought it was a little strange QF would offer a loyalty bonus for non-QF marketed flights - it was really a One World loyalty bonus, wasn't it?

The term "Loyalty Bonus" has only been part of the program since May 2005. For about 5 years before that "Upgrade Credits" could be earned

...
LTS
LTG
Status Bonus

All the points earned and that continue to be earned on those flights including the loyalty bonus when flying QF.

Of course, from next year less any loyalty bonus earnings on non QF flight numbers.

With the introduction of UC's one was earned for every 250 SC's earned on a rolloing basis - it was not relevant to a membership year.

This was relatively quickly changed to one UC for ever 450 SC's.

When UC earning was replaced with the "loyalty bonus" it was 5000 points for 450 SC's on the rolling basis.

Recently this was changed to 8000 points for every 500 SC's earned in a memberhip year with a maximum of 4 to be earned each membership year.

One basic UC could be used to upgrade a flight segment of up to 600 miles - this from either discount or full economy. QFF points could also be used at the same rates as today: 5000 from economy, 8000 from discount economy.

Ok assuming on that basis an UC was worth 5K points¹, we will have gone -

- from 5K points value for any 250 SC's earned on any carrier on a rolling basis

- to 8K points for 500 SC's earned on QF to a maximum of 4 per membership year.

 

[serfty]

Are they worried about the mass defections to the new OW carriers coming onboard in 2013 (like MH and QR) as alternatives to travelling to Europe?

I think this may be the case, however this change has its main affect on travel in premium classes - QFF can restict earning eligibility in discount economy classes on those other carriers.

 

[dfcatch]

Ahhh Red Roo - always make me me laugh......

In principle - I don't have a philosophical problem with a Loyalty Bonus being restricted to QF marketed flights only.

But here's some ideas on QF being smarter and keeping things simpler....

1/ Sack the idiot that came up with last year's convoluted change to the loyalty bonus. "Stupid" is the best word in the dictionary to describe it.
It could have been much simpler and much more painless.
Define the goal - then get someone with half a brain to come up with the solutions. The QFF strategy team seems a bit light on IMHO.

2/ Seeing as JQ flights are excluded from earning the loyalty bonus - I strongly believe in this next idea....

DUMP JQ COMPLETELY from QFF!!

- No earning miles/SC on any fare.
- No QFF reward seats available on any JQ flight.
- No codeshares.
- No interlining.

Let JQ be profitable on its own with the singlet-sporting, thong-tapping bogan-brigade; and let QF compete on its own.

None of this half-pregnant surrogate business that JQ is being prostituted for by QF.

It should be a profitable wholly-owned subsidiary that operates independently from QF (except for maintenance and terminal economies of scale).

That means that QFF relies solely on QF, OW and Partners to provide redemption and earning opportunities.

3/ Drop Partner Gold back to 2100.

It makes no sense to have to earn Full Platinum PLUS another 1000 SC.

At 2100 it's Full Platinum plus Full Gold qualification so it at least makes sense.

(Assuming the whole point of it is to entice members who are close, to make the effort to get over the line).

4/ Rather than fiddle with SC/point earning rules, simply increase the ~ requirement for Status Levels.

Eg. 4~ required for Silver.
8~ required for Gold.
12~ required for Platinum (or even 16).

This reflects the whole Frequent Flyer concept.

And no - I wouldn't do it as "700 SC need to be on QF code". Keeping the ~ keeps it as Frequent Flying. COS already rewards premium cabins with higher SC earn.

In other words - you need both SC AND FLIGHTS to qualify.

Fairly combats purely AA flyers, and knocks out the 2 return F flights to LHR. (Which doesn't need WP anyway as they already have F privileges).

5/ Uncap the Loyalty Bonus.

That was just stupid - see Point 1 above.


6/ Reinstate QF 921/932.

Sorry - but no, I won't drop it - and QF shouldn't have either.


7/ Stop the booking engine from displaying JQ flights unless the option is explicitly selected.

7b/ Stop the booking engine from displaying JQ connection flights when booking QFi.


8/ I'm out of anti-JQ ideas right now......I'll get back to you on this

 

[dfcatch]

9/ Being back Guest Passes!

This will solve lounge overcrowding much more easily than any "enhancements" which as you know - don't win you any friends.

A/ Having an automatic guest entitlement EVERY visit is just asking for overcrowding issues.

B/ I'm penalized as I usually fly alone and never use my entitlement. But the moment I want to take both my parents, or perhaps two colleagues in - I'm penalized. (I'm not talking about WP allowed 2 in domestic lounges - let's remember about QC, SG, and Int lounges).

C/ For those who travel regularly with SWMBO or a colleague. Well - either they will be flying enough to earn status in their own right - or purchase an Annual Guest Card - that's what they were designed for.

D/ You can still maintain the OW obligations by honoring the guest entitlement for non-QF Elite members, who no doubt do not represent the biggest culprits of Guest Overcrowding.

I'm going to stop now - you need to pay me if I'm going to fix your program for you

PS. Red Roo - I don't mean any personal offense to any individual.
But I'm not going to coughfoot around the issues either. A mistake is a mistake and should be called out for what it is. Otherwise QFF will keep making them.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No more 'enhancements' (as you like to call them) in the plan I am aware of. Hard to speak for a year from now but the plan is always to improve the program. I hate giving bad news as much as you all hate receiving it!

if the goal is always to 'improve' the program, can you please explain how this current change 'improves' the program? Would also like to know how the recent change from 6 month's notice to 3 month's notice of QFFF changes 'improves the program'?

 

[katiebell]

Ahhh Red Roo - always make me me laugh......

But here's some ideas on QF being smarter and keeping things simpler....

1/ Sack the idiot that came up with last year's convoluted change to the loyalty bonus. "Stupid" is the best word in the dictionary to describe it.
It could have been much simpler and much more painless.
Define the goal - then get someone with half a brain to come up with the solutions. The QFF strategy team seems a bit light on IMHO.

2/ Seeing as JQ flights are excluded from earning the loyalty bonus - I strongly believe in this next idea....

DUMP JQ COMPLETELY from QFF!!

- No earning miles/SC on any fare.
- No QFF reward seats available on any JQ flight.
- No codeshares.
- No interlining.

Let JQ be profitable on its own with the singlet-sporting, thong-tapping bogan-brigade; and let QF compete on its own.

None of this half-pregnant surrogate business that JQ is being prostituted for by QF.

It should be a profitable wholly-owned subsidiary that operates independently from QF (except for maintenance and terminal economies of scale).

That means that QFF relies solely on QF, OW and Partners to provide redemption and earning opportunities.

3/ Drop Partner Gold back to 2100.

It makes no sense to have to earn Full Platinum PLUS another 1000 SC.

At 2100 it's Full Platinum plus Full Gold qualification so it at least makes sense.

(Assuming the whole point of it is to entice members who are close, to make the effort to get over the line).

4/ Rather than fiddle with SC/point earning rules, simply increase the ~ requirement for Status Levels.

Eg. 4~ required for Silver.
8~ required for Gold.
12~ required for Platinum (or even 16).

This reflects the whole Frequent Flyer concept.

And no - I wouldn't do it as "700 SC need to be on QF code". Keeping the ~ keeps it as Frequent Flying. COS already rewards premium cabins with higher SC earn.

In other words - you need both SC AND FLIGHTS to qualify.

Fairly combats purely AA flyers, and knocks out the 2 return F flights to LHR. (Which doesn't need WP anyway as they already have F privileges).

5/ Uncap the Loyalty Bonus.

That was just stupid - see Point 1 above.


6/ Reinstate QF 921/932.

Sorry - but no, I won't drop it - and QF shouldn't have either.


7/ Stop the booking engine from displaying JQ flights unless the option is explicitly selected.

7b/ Stop the booking engine from displaying JQ connection flights when booking QFi.


8/ I'm out of anti-JQ ideas right now......I'll get back to you on this

Could not agree more about reimstating lost entitlements: this thread clearly shows that many FF feel the programme has been significantly degraded. A clever business (i.e. one that WANTS TO MAKE A PROFIT ON INTERNAIONAL FLIGHTS) would listen to it premuium customers and act to keep them happy. None of the things we miss are that expensive to restore and would be be more than compensated by increased loyalty. Then maybe the idea is to degrade customer loyalty so much that QFi has to be shut down/sold off thus fulfilling AJ's thwarted plan.

Reinstate QF29/30: this was (despite the spin from QF that no one flew it) so popular that J was always overbooked. More frequent flights from more international ports (not bigger planes less often: see previous threads re preference for smaller planes not A380). It is basic business sense to offer customers what they want to get them through the door

In short, make QF and QFF more attractive to WP and SG and you might just fix the finance issue

 

[oz_mark]

With the changes to notice for enhancements in the wind, QF could have been sneaky and waited until they were in place before publishing the change, kudos to them for being more upfront than they need to be!

If they waited till May (when the new rule about notice begins) to publish the change, then they would not have been able to implement it until August....Advising the change now, allows them to do it earlier than waiting for that change.

 

[katiebell]

if the goal is always to 'improve' the program, can you please explain how this current change 'improves' the program? Would also like to know how the recent change from 6 month's notice to 3 month's notice of QFFF changes 'improves the program'?

I cannot think of any 'enhancements' that have improved the programme for me (easily WP every year but not likely to get to WP1). Could red roo list any?

 

[medhead]

if the goal is always to 'improve' the program, can you please explain how this current change 'improves' the program? Would also like to know how the recent change from 6 month's notice to 3 month's notice of QFFF changes 'improves the program'?

It improves the program for QFF/QF


Sent from the Throne

 

[simongr]

I cannot think of any 'enhancements' that have improved the programme for me (easily WP every year but not likely to get to WP1). Could red roo list any?

This is the nub. I am still struggling to find enhancements that improve the program directly for WP. If you can not achieve WP then introducing P1 does not improve the program for you. There have been enhancements to the program but WP have not be given any/many that I can recall.

Things which have not improved the program for WP are:

- Increase in status bonus for PS and SG. I know this doesnnt detract from WP benefits but it is still annoying that when they are handing out candy they didnt hand any this way
- Increase in requirement for PG from 2100 to 2400. QF will argue that bringing in increased options at 2,400 SCs is an improvement but if you were a solid 2300 SCs WP then there is nothing in this for you
- Granting access to front row of whY to P1. Odd one this. Before P1 came in I could regularly snag the front row of whY at T-80. Once P1 came in and P1s grabbed front row at booking I lost the chance to get front row. On a regular commute SYD-MEL until I hit P1 I didnt get front row of whY
- Caps on loyalty bonuses
- Changes to basis of earning loyalty bonuses

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I cannot think of any 'enhancements' that have improved the programme for me (easily WP every year but not likely to get to WP1). Could red roo list any?

I guess maybe QF think that restricting the loyalty bonus to QF flights will make more people, well, fly on QF flights. But the bonus is a measly 8000 points. It's hardly worth giving up a couple of return flights MEL/SYD-HKG with a full flat bed on CX business for an angled skybed MKI on QF services (unless you score the odd A380).

If you have to land in HKG ready to go out for the night I'd rather arrive having had a sleep than with an extra few thousand points.

 

[dfcatch]

I guess maybe QF think that restricting the loyalty bonus to QF flights will make more people, well, fly on QF flights. But the bonus is a measly 8000 points. It's hardly worth giving up a couple of return flights MEL/SYD-HKG with a full flat bed on CX business for an angled skybed MKI on QF services (unless you score the odd A380).

If you have to land in HKG ready to go out for the night I'd rather arrive having had a sleep than with an extra few thousand points.

Actually - it's even simpler than that.

QFF view the Loyalty Bonus Program as a Cost Center that is ripe for trimming without any discernible consequences.

It is nothing more than simple profit-squeezing.

Another symptom of QFF being a separate entity (both in the legal and practical sense) from QF.

QF seems to be content with the sum of the parts rather than the greater Whole.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

I cannot think of any 'enhancements' that have improved the programme for me (easily WP every year but not likely to get to WP1). Could red roo list any?

You can now earn QFF points for Optus mobile calls...