Lunch with Lesley – Attendees

[samh004]

That's so he will be bright and smiling for his early flight back to SYD on Thursday

I'm very nervous about that actually. Flying a 747!

 

[Deleted User]

Who's in the red...?

(sorry for the newb question...)

 

[medhead]

Meeting over. Quorum Achieved!!! Woohoo! All good for audit next week.

Finally opened the very heavy present (that will struggle to get within my VA carryon allowance). I think it's a wonderful present. Thank you Qantas team! SWMBO would prefer some more romancey titles.

AFF Q: What will stop users jumping ship?

QF A: They believe they still have the best loyalty program in Australia.

Thanks for the updatesHmmm....i think we the consumer are the best judge of that!

I actually agree with Justin that it is the best program. But only just, and that superiority is eroding quickly with every change.

The last little bit of discussion was around comparative value of the QFF program. Eroding earning and making these changes actually reduces Qantas' advantage, IMO. JohnK and others really got into the whole idea of value very well and much of their sentiment matched my feelings. I said during the lunch that I feel Qantas does not want my money. To be fair, all of the Qantas team did say they want my money. These changes are a clear indication that Qantas does not want me to remain at the platinum level. My flying is not valuable enough to them. (That's fair enough, I can accept that might be the case - no emotion in this) That means I have to make a choice, do I stick with Qantas that does not seem to want me on the same terms; Or do I save money?

Qantas seemed to indicate that having the best program would keep me. They also felt that even with the changes earning on Qantas would still be better than on VA. I don't think that is the case and I thought I'd put some numbers to my thinking. Red Roo please share this with the team if it would help. (I have a few more as well)

Here are the averages for my work flights only, on the same route, over a recent 12 month period.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]Airline
[/TD]
[TD]Average Price
[/TD]
[TD]Number
[/TD]
[TD]QF New Points Earn
[/TD]
[TD]Annual points QF
[/TD]
[TD]VA points earn
[/TD]
[TD]Annual Point VA
[/TD]
[TD]QF SC new earn
[/TD]
[TD]VA SC earn
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]QF
[/TD]
[TD]$126
[/TD]
[TD]63
[/TD]
[TD]800
[/TD]
[TD]50400
[/TD]
[TD]1260
[/TD]
[TD]79380
[/TD]
[TD]630
[/TD]
[TD]630
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]VA
[/TD]
[TD]$111
[/TD]
[TD]35
[/TD]
[TD]800
[/TD]
[TD]28000
[/TD]
[TD]1110
[/TD]
[TD]38850
[/TD]
[TD]350
[/TD]
[TD]350
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]98
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]78400
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]118230
[/TD]
[TD]980
[/TD]
[TD]980
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

In terms of outright earning, if I pay VA the same as I pay QF per flight, then I'm 50% better off in my points balance. Even if I keep to the 11% cheaper VA fares I'm still 37% better off with VA than under the new Qantas earning structure. With Qantas, good bye platinum (ignoring that I do have other flying for conferences and such). With VA I can easily maintain platinum and also maintain silver for another family member.

The value proposition is more nebulus that these simple numbers. The QFF program has good value, there are other matters to consider before I make my final assessment. But I'm not sure that the new QF earning structure provides better earning than VA. In fact, the cheapest flight I've ever had on this route with VA was $82, which still earns more than New Qantas.

 

[mannej]

The QF flight back to BNE has been delayed - thanks JohnK...

 

[Mwenenzi]

AFF Q: What will stop users jumping ship?
QF A: They believe they still have the best loyalty program in Australia.

But flying is international. Can credit QF flights to AA, BA, CX etc
By world standards QF ffp is behind

 

[QF WP]

Who's in the red...?

(sorry for the newb question...)

samh004, the AFF social ambassador and scribe for today

 

[medhead]

I forgot to add to my previous, that when you're flying 98+ flights a year Gold does not cut it, to make the travel tolerable. I might as well stop travelling.

 

[Deleted User]

medhead, whats the comparison in regard to burn between VA & QF on your examples...

 

[Princess Fiona]

No lurpak.

View attachment 27060

Mushroom tart.

View attachment 27061

Chicken.

View attachment 27062

They thought the butter from F was better

 

[QF WP]

medhead, that is possibly the best post I have ever seen from you. Seriously!

You echo my own sentiments and although my research has been more back of the envelope, that was the same outcome that I got 2 years ago when I finally decided to status match to VA (Gold) and start splitting my flying. I went from QF Gold to re-qualifying QF Gold and attaining VA Plat (the kicker was the family pooling).

I still haven't crunched my previous 12 month numbers for QF Old to QF New, but you have now given me the impetus, for which I thank you.

 

[Princess Fiona]

In regard to Diamond Hilton membership I forgot to say that this is an ongoing benefit of GGL on BA (similar level to P1 on QF). It would be a nice addition to P1 I think
I also asked Justin if he would reconsider the proposition of LTP in view of its introduction by BA who presumably see it as a value proposition for them, the answer being no

 

[Ansett]

To SAMH004

Forgot to say earlier thank you for your efforts in scribing it was and is very much appreciated by myself and I am sure many others.

Enjoy the 747 Sim Had a ball a few weeks ago a truly excellent experience.

 

[Mwenenzi]

medhead, whats the comparison in regard to burn between VA & QF on your examples...

No fuel surcharges on VA award flight redemptions
A big win for VA in that comparision
But QF have a lot more partner airlines (as does AA, BA, CX etc)

 

[medhead]

medhead, whats the comparison in regard to burn between VA & QF on your examples...

I'm not 100% sure. Roughly the same with VA being maybe a few thousand points cheap with a few $10s co-pay. I still feel points are harder to earn with VA, and that is part of the reason I still think QFF is the better program. Even considering the better aspects if the vA program.

 

[ketsuzei]

stories for every journey

What a cool idea.

And surely there are other routes with 5:15 flight times out there, too.

 

[medhead]

medhead, that is possibly the best post I have ever seen from you. Seriously!

You echo my own sentiments and although my research has been more back of the envelope, that was the same outcome that I got 2 years ago when I finally decided to status match to VA (Gold) and start splitting my flying. I went from QF Gold to re-qualifying QF Gold and attaining VA Plat (the kicker was the family pooling).

I still haven't crunched my previous 12 month numbers for QF Old to QF New, but you have now given me the impetus, for which I thank you.

I had similar data for 2010, 11, and 12. The thing that makes it easy is having a large number of flights on the same route. Running the numbers has to be harder when the routes vary.

It is an interesting point about intentions. I had decided to drop to VA Gold a matter of weeks ago. Then these changes happened.

 

[Ansett]

Ok as a comparison can we look at the following and advise for both

Points Earned MEL-LHR in Y (Discount)

Virgin =

Qantas +

Points required for a Y redemption MEL-LHR

Virgin =

Qantas =

Cost for taxes etc

Virgin =

Qantas =

Points Earned MEL-LHR in J (Discount)

Virgin =

Qantas +

Points required for a J redemption MEL-LHR

Virgin =

Qantas =

Cost for taxes etc

Virgin =

Qantas =

Perhaps the more familiar of us here could put together a simple spreadsheet that shows earn V burn across a number of airlines for Y and J?

 

[roncritch]

AFF Q: Justin, why did you change the minimum points guarantee? (see photo above)

QF A: Points per $. Rewarding you for higher spend. International v domestic. Goes back to simpler concept. Natural flow between the two. Reward for spending more for fare if two people in the same row, one paid more. Also new earn for some fare buckets in J.


Well Justin, living in Karratha, for you to want me to spend more, then bring your fares in line with other flights over same distances...ie MEL/BNE and KTA/PER......almost same amount of flights per day, same zone.

For a start normal disc economy (Red-E-deal) $189 BM/$309 KP Economy (Flexi Saver) econ$385 BM/$629 KP Flexi Eco (Fully Flexible) $805 BM/$809KP

I take roughly 16 return flights per year
Therefore:

You already get $3,840 more if I flew Red E deals all the time.
$7,808 if, as you want, flew Flexi Saver
luckily Full Economy is near enough the same.

As it is, I often fly flexi saver as it is even hard to get the $309 fare most days.

I really would like an answer from Justin, or even the yield managers on why we have to put up with this anomaly. What are AFF'ers thoughts??

 

[Himeno]

Was the Europe-Asia earn the only question asked about the partner SC reduction?

I was hoping for a more direct question such as the one I posted in the other thread.

 

[kpc]

AFF Q: What will stop users jumping ship?

QF A: They believe they still have the best loyalty program in Australia.

...Hmmm....i think we the consumer are the best judge of that!

I actually agree with Justin that it is the best program. But only just, and that superiority is eroding quickly with every change.

QF seem to be comparing themselves with only Velocity....don't forget there are other programs out there eg AA, SQ, Cx etc which you also need to compare with, esp if you travel internationally! If I lived in Adl, Per etc, and flew internationally and domestically, the VA / SQ combination (crediting either to Krisflyer or Velocity) would be clearly better than QF:idea: