Midair collision between Helicopter and CRJ (AA5342) at Washington (DCA)

[marki]

I am interested to know where/how you surmise this or where you got the information from?

I cannot think of any circumstance where a helicopter could not hold accurate altitude to any degree less than a fixed wing aircraft.

The information regarding the error range of altimeters for helicopters, typically **±50 to ±100 feet** under normal conditions, and the challenges associated with maintaining altitude due to helicopter instability, comes from general aviation knowledge and standards.

1. **Aviation Regulations and Standards**: Organizations like the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in the U.S., the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), and the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) provide guidelines and standards for aircraft operations, including helicopters. These standards often include performance specifications for instruments like altimeters, which can influence the error range provided.

2. **Pilot Training and Manuals**: Helicopter pilot training materials and flight manuals often discuss the operational characteristics of helicopters, including the challenges of maintaining precise altitude due to their inherent instability compared to fixed-wing aircraft. These documents emphasize the need for pilots to aim for **±100 feet** of their target altitude, especially under visual flight rules (VFR), with even tighter tolerances under instrument flight rules (IFR).

3. **Operational Experience**: Experienced helicopter pilots and instructors share insights in aviation forums, articles, and educational platforms like aviation blogs. They often discuss how environmental factors (like wind, turbulence, and temperature changes) and pilot skills affect altitude maintenance. NVGs (Night Vision Goggles) altering height perception is a common topic in night flying training.

4. **Technical Literature**: Aviation journals, technical reports, and studies on helicopter dynamics and flight control systems might detail how helicopter design (rotor dynamics, tail rotor effects, etc.) contributes to altitude instability. This literature can be found in academic databases or through aviation research institutions.

5. **Manufacturer Specifications**: Helicopter manufacturers provide detailed specifications for their aircraft, including the performance of onboard instruments like altimeters. While specific error ranges might vary slightly between models, the general range of **±50 to ±100 feet** is a common standard due to the limitations of current technology and the operational environment.

Regarding your comment about helicopters not being able to hold accurate altitude compared to fixed-wing aircraft:

- **Helicopter Instability**: Unlike fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters are inherently less stable due to their rotary wing design. They require constant control inputs from the pilot to maintain altitude, especially in hover or low-speed flight, which introduces variability in altitude holding.

- **Control Dynamics**: Fixed-wing aircraft use a combination of pitch, yaw, and roll to maintain altitude, which is generally more stable due to the lift generated by forward motion. Helicopters, however, rely on the balance of lift from the main rotor and thrust from the tail rotor, which can be more challenging to manage precisely.

- **Environmental Sensitivity**: Helicopters are more sensitive to environmental conditions like wind gusts, which can cause sudden changes in altitude that require immediate correction, whereas fixed-wing aircraft can often ride out such conditions with less impact on altitude.

This information synthesis comes from a combination of the above sources, reflecting both the technical aspects of helicopter flight and the practical experiences of pilots. If you need more specific references or detailed studies, I can suggest looking into aviation regulatory documents, pilot training resources, or technical literature on helicopter aerodynamics and flight control.

 

[marki]

Apparently conflict warnings were so common, that they became normal.

Dangerous when this is normal. Or should I say when it gets accepted as the norm.

 

[marki]

Ah yes it common in the military especially Europe. I can explain a little - there are well know examples on You Tube. =>Under air crash investigation there are good examples of zeroing of QNH. So on reset of the QNH - causes the altitude to rise. To its default QNH. More to do with out dated maps near military airports, because Jeppson(civilian) charts wont have that kind of specific data. For obvious reasons - certainly map data in Russia is usually hard to come by ( truely accurate data) And looking at radar24 Russian/Ukraine airspace is avoided!

Upgraded ( with Western technology ) Tupolev’s Tu-154 are well-known especially - The Terrain Awareness Warning System (TAWS). Pressing button on the FMS panel commanding standard barometric pressure be set on the main electronic altimeter.

 

[JohnM]

The information regarding the error range of altimeters for helicopters, typically **±50 to ±100 feet** under normal conditions, and the challenges associated with maintaining altitude due to helicopter instability, comes from general aviation knowledge and standards.

1. **Aviation Regulations and Standards**: Organizations like the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in the U.S., the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), and the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) provide guidelines and standards for aircraft operations, including helicopters. These standards often include performance specifications for instruments like altimeters, which can influence the error range provided.

2. **Pilot Training and Manuals**: Helicopter pilot training materials and flight manuals often discuss the operational characteristics of helicopters, including the challenges of maintaining precise altitude due to their inherent instability compared to fixed-wing aircraft. These documents emphasize the need for pilots to aim for **±100 feet** of their target altitude, especially under visual flight rules (VFR), with even tighter tolerances under instrument flight rules (IFR).

3. **Operational Experience**: Experienced helicopter pilots and instructors share insights in aviation forums, articles, and educational platforms like aviation blogs. They often discuss how environmental factors (like wind, turbulence, and temperature changes) and pilot skills affect altitude maintenance. NVGs (Night Vision Goggles) altering height perception is a common topic in night flying training.

4. **Technical Literature**: Aviation journals, technical reports, and studies on helicopter dynamics and flight control systems might detail how helicopter design (rotor dynamics, tail rotor effects, etc.) contributes to altitude instability. This literature can be found in academic databases or through aviation research institutions.

5. **Manufacturer Specifications**: Helicopter manufacturers provide detailed specifications for their aircraft, including the performance of onboard instruments like altimeters. While specific error ranges might vary slightly between models, the general range of **±50 to ±100 feet** is a common standard due to the limitations of current technology and the operational environment.

Regarding your comment about helicopters not being able to hold accurate altitude compared to fixed-wing aircraft:

- **Helicopter Instability**: Unlike fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters are inherently less stable due to their rotary wing design. They require constant control inputs from the pilot to maintain altitude, especially in hover or low-speed flight, which introduces variability in altitude holding.

- **Control Dynamics**: Fixed-wing aircraft use a combination of pitch, yaw, and roll to maintain altitude, which is generally more stable due to the lift generated by forward motion. Helicopters, however, rely on the balance of lift from the main rotor and thrust from the tail rotor, which can be more challenging to manage precisely.

- **Environmental Sensitivity**: Helicopters are more sensitive to environmental conditions like wind gusts, which can cause sudden changes in altitude that require immediate correction, whereas fixed-wing aircraft can often ride out such conditions with less impact on altitude.

This information synthesis comes from a combination of the above sources, reflecting both the technical aspects of helicopter flight and the practical experiences of pilots. If you need more specific references or detailed studies, I can suggest looking into aviation regulatory documents, pilot training resources, or technical literature on helicopter aerodynamics and flight control.

But are you a helicopter pilot?

@straitman is a career helo pilot - military and civil.

 

[justinbrett]

Are some people using ChatGPT to compose their posts?

 

[marki]

But are you a helicopter pilot?

@straitman is a career helo pilot - military and civil.

I am a nobody - lowly below-pond scum fixed-wing pilot. I know enough about rotary because of a particular job requirement.

 

[oz_mark]

I can suggest looking into aviation regulatory documents, pilot training resources, or technical literature on helicopter aerodynamics and flight control.

I dare say that Straitman has been intimately familiar with all those documents, resources and literature.

 

[marki]

I dare say that Straitman has been intimately familiar with all those documents, resources and literature.

When asked, I responded by stating where I derived this information. I could have written a shorter version, And I am sure Straitmen is all over it.
Signed Mr Nobody Marki. Enjoying the Thread.