Missed flight: No notification of Lord Howe Island flight rebooking/time change

[RooFlyer]

Re: Dismissed without consultation

A company should be held accountable when its own actions cause inconvenience. Here QF supposedly decided to move the passengers and notification failed to reach them.

You may argue QF notified the agent, but is that acceptable if it was a sunday and the agent wasn't there? Do you think QF should have realised that and taken the time to go into the booking, get the phone number, and make direct contact? And if direct contact was not possible, not make the change?
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IF (and its still an if) the TA kept their own details in the booking, rather than the client's (as happened to me, as mentioned above), then that's all the airline would have. And given there are only computers doing these things, I don't think there was anyone to 'realise' anything.

<snip>
If the change was made on a Saturday, or Sunday, or even at any other time 'close in' where immediate and direct contact is needed (rather than relying on someone checking email), do you think a company should hide behind terms and conditions?
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Airline may argue that its a 24/7 business; they aren't 'hiding' behind T&Cs - like it or not, they are accepted by all of us when we use the airlines.


This strikes me as a lining-up of unfortunate circumstances: a late and inconveniently timed change by the airline and (I suspect) only the TA's (or even, incorrect) contact details left in the booking so that the pax wasn't contacted direct.

As others have said, be vigilant and check yourself, but even then the occasional stuff-up will happen.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Dismissed without consultation

IF (and its still an if) the TA kept their own details in the booking, rather than the client's (as happened to me, as mentioned above), then that's all the airline would have. And given there are only computers doing these things, I don't think there was anyone to 'realise' anything.




Airline may argue that its a 24/7 business; they aren't 'hiding' behind T&Cs - like it or not, they are accepted by all of us when we use the airlines.


This strikes me as a lining-up of unfortunate circumstances: a late and inconveniently timed change by the airline and (I suspect) only the TA's (or even, incorrect) contact details left in the booking so that the pax wasn't contacted direct.

As others have said, be vigilant and check yourself, but even then the occasional stuff-up will happen.

'Notification' may have been generated automatically, but the act of deciding to move pax to an earlier flight would have required human review and intervention. At that point QF staff should have realised the lateness of the change and manually intervened to make sure the passengers were made aware. I'm not sure the terms and conditions are valid in the case of a sunday night with a message in a booking that no one will see? I don't think the passenger would be agreeing to that either when they buy the ticket.

If there were no passenger contact details the choice is simplified... you don't make the change. You select someone else who can be contacted and ask if they will move.

If the original 1140 flight had been cancelled that might change things - the airline might be commended for at least making sure the pax were protected that day and had seats over anyone else. But that might not be the case here. The 1140 still flew.

 

[RichardMEL]

Re: Dismissed without consultation

It sure sounds like the TA had their contact details in the PNR and I think they bear some responsibility there.

I do question though the action to move pax confirmed on a flight to an earlier one - even with the backlog of pax from the cancelled flight on the 13th you'd think there would be enough for the extra section at 7am to cover it. The only reason I can think to move pax to the earlier flight was an anticipation of issues with the regular flight (and frankly LDH always seem to have issues when I am passing through SYD it seems) - it may have been an idea to try and get as many out earlier as possible, but 12 hours prior is very close in to expect changed plans for the pax to work like that.

I do feel this is on QF but also the TA.

From the OP's various posts it does seem that QF have owned part of this with moving the pax to a few flights in a row that then did not fly due to weather (not QF's fault per se). I can only assume that they did this free of charge which seems a reasonable response given the tix had originally been cancelled for noshow on the 0700.

Here's my question re the requests for compo for accom - if QF cancels due to weather because they can't get the pax in, are they then responsible for accom costs? I don't think so. I think the most the pax could expect is costs for the Monday night they missed. That may seem harsh but I could see that being a result.

either way I'm sorry the trip/holiday was clearly ruined. A series of unfortunate events. You'd have thought a phone call would have been made to the customer on that evening before to ask if it's OK to move to 0700.. that seems odd to me that that did not appear to happen.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

how does the travel agent have responsibility at 7pm on a Sunday? I don't think it is reasonable for an airline to assume either the passenger or a travel agent are monitoring bookings or emails at that time of night looking for a change.

If these facts turn out to be as stated, QF could have taken 2 seconds to call the passenger.

There's potentially another driver behind the rebooking from the previous day... chairman's lounge and platinum 1s didn't want to wake up and be at the airport by 7 so they got the prime 1140 flight? and non status pax shunted to the early flight?

 

[RichardMEL]

how does the travel agent have responsibility at 7pm on a Sunday? I don't think it is reasonable for an airline to assume either the passenger or a travel agent are monitoring bookings or emails at that time of night looking for a change.

I agree in practice, but I also feel that if a TA issues a ticket they also take responsibility for the booking.

At least QF don't seem to have passed the buck back to the TA in this instance from what the OP has written though, so it does seem that they've applied some common sense - at least in terms of attempted recovery if not the original change.

If these facts turn out to be as stated, QF could have taken 2 seconds to call the passenger.

(devil's advocate mode) what if the only contact details were for the TA? I know the OP stated their FF# was also in the booking, and as such contact info via the profile, but could it just possibly be that whoever processed this saw the TA details in the PNR and *assumed* they would handle it - specially if it was a big chain who supposedly might monitor such things?

(me mode) bad assumption to make if so and again we don't even know if this is the case of the booking what contact info was there.

It could also be that texts would usually be sent or the app used - which again assumes someone using these devices.. which more and more is a majority of us, but the OP has stated they do not use these things - which is their right.

It all seems quite puzzling given the scheduled and originally booked 1140 flight flew and was not cancelled. I still question the "need" to move them in the first place...

There's potentially another driver behind the rebooking from the previous day... chairman's lounge and platinum 1s didn't want to wake up and be at the airport by 7 so they got the prime 1140 flight? and non status pax shunted to the early flight?

Something like this (maybe not status pax but some other reason, maybe a group or something, had some sort of priority according to QF - though for the life of me I can't see why this would be (and as a P1 I have never once asked for a changed flight because I felt I was entitled to it because of my status. if I wanted that one I'd book it myself)

Now I see what you're saying that QF in moving pax from the cancelled flight to the extra section at 0700 would say well some pax might want to take the 1140 but you know what, if I'd missed a flight and the next one was sched for 0700 I'd want to get there ASAP not wait right? And further, surely QF would say well we can only move x pax to 1140 in conjunction with the booked load. I'd think if you were on the sunday flight they'd just move everyone to the replacement service and that's that.

I still can't see any situation where it would make sense for the OP to be moved from a flight that was still scheduled to operate at late notice like this. It makes very little sense to me.

The next thought occurs that when they showed up at SYD to catch said 1140 flight, why were they not put on that service anyway? I mean if pax had been moved OFF it for some reason, would there not still be seats? I find it hard to believe they would sell extra seats to a destination like LDH between 7pm and say 10am the next day on that service.

regardless of the TA involvement or not, something's fishy about this entire situation as reported IMHO. Many questions remain unanswered or unclear IMHO.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

ordinarily I'd possibly agree... TA is the way to go if you booked thigh a TA. It's just the immediate timing here that causes concern.

 

[eastwest101]

Flight schedules to and from LDH are such a lottery with the weather and operating constraints I think its a bit of a "unique" flight thats probably better off leaving travel agents completely out of it - for clarity and communication purposes and to avoid situations like this. Also a good point to note that for people whom may not be SYD based and may be flying in or driving in from other places that the cost of a holiday in Lord Howe Is should be budgeted with at least one or two unplanned nights acomodation in SYD and possibly also at LDH?

Will be interesting to see whether QF and/or the Travel Agent of the OP are able to prove that they made a reasonable attempt to contact someone about the schedule change. If I had to guess it would be a combination of a late schedule change stuff-up by someone in Qantas and notifiaction possibly sent too late to be useful for the travel agent and the passengers.

Thinking aloud here at a bit off-topic - but I have seen several travel agents advertise as 'Norfolk Is and Lord Howe Is specialists" with deals inluding airfares and acomodation. In the case of using a "specialist" travel agent - or indeed any travel agent - and in the case where it was possible to "prove" that the travel agent received notification about a schedule change but didn't or couldn't pass it onto the customer - what would be the possible outcomes? Any people whom have used TA's and gone to LDH could make an interesting contribution to this thread.

Travel insurance is another interesting issue to ponder. In these exact circumstances how succesful (or not) would a claim be for lost acomodation expenses for a rescheduled flight not notified followed by weather related delays and cancellations. I am guessing the OP may have been insured right up to the point where they voluntarily cancelled the entire holiday?

 

[JohnK]

A 4+ hour change to an earlier flight the day before departure is unacceptable without approval first from the passenger.

I don't know about some people here but if I am departing QF23 tomorrow I don't go checking QF website, Tripit etc to find out if all ok. The airline needs to notify me. In my case though they have my details and do notify me of changes.

Not sure about travel agents and bookings made via other airlines. Never forget the time where TG cancelled a flight in the middle of an itinerary and US Airways didn't feel obliged to contact me leaving my elderly mother stranded in FCO.

 

[RichardMEL]

I agree totally with JohnK (a red-roo letter day??? jk ) but I still contend that given the 1140 ran I do not see ANY reason why the pax should have been moved off it in the first place. It makes zero sense to me without contacting and asking. zero. THAT seems even more unacceptable than a 4 hour schedule change the night before.

 

[juddles]

.....There's potentially another driver behind the rebooking from the previous day... chairman's lounge and platinum 1s didn't want to wake up and be at the airport by 7 so they got the prime 1140 flight? and non status pax shunted to the early flight?....

OMG! Are you serious??

If the move was the other way would it be because the evil CL and P1's wanted a longer day on the island so the non-status pax got shunted to a later flight?

ROFL

 

[RichardMEL]

OMG! Are you serious??

If the move was the other way would it be because the evil CL and P1's wanted a longer day on the island so the non-status pax got shunted to a later flight?

ROFL

heh.

yeah we evil P1's - it's a bloody conspiracy!!!!

or as a certain President-Elect might say "Rigged"?!!

 

[UP4014]

You could also ask QF to provide a document that confirms how and when they contacted your TA, to advise of the change. It's plausible that your TA might be looking to minimise their liability.

Yes, ask for this info on the grounds you need it for an insurance claim.

 

[serfty]

OMG! Are you serious??
...

What other reason could there be that a PAX was taken off a flight they had booked and re-booked on a 4 hour earlier flight without their acknowledgment/acceptance?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

.....There's potentially another driver behind the rebooking from the previous day... chairman's lounge and platinum 1s didn't want to wake up and be at the airport by 7 so they got the prime 1140 flight? and non status pax shunted to the early flight?....

OMG! Are you serious??

If the move was the other way would it be because the evil CL and P1's wanted a longer day on the island so the non-status pax got shunted to a later flight?

ROFL

I raised it as a possibility, and yes, it's possible. Ordinary pax do get moved because a platinum comes along and demands a favourite seat (it's happened to me). Ordinary pax do get downgraded or bumped because top tier pax want to get on a flight. It's also a possibility that high status passengers from the previous day were offered the 7am and asked to be put on the 1140 instead, which qantas agreed and bumped the OP to the earlier flight.

To assume the OP was moved to the earlier flight purely because the airline was being benevolent is not necessarily exploring the reasons on an objective basis.

 

[RichardMEL]

What other reason could there be that a PAX was taken off a flight they had booked and re-booked on a 4 hour earlier flight without their acknowledgment/acceptance?

There is no obvious or reasonable reason

and frankly being bumped by status pax from your confirmed flight to an another - earlier or later - would be disgraceful IMHO.

Status may have it's perks, but displacement of confirmed passengers like this? not in my book. I don't buy this theory tbh

but as I wrote earlier this situation just doesn't quite add up (not questioning the OP or suggesting anything there - just that it makes no sense given the stated situation)

 

[ShezMac]

Re: Dismissed without consultation

Sure have learnt an expensive lesson from this, but I did ring the number as shown on our booking at 5.30am on the day of the flight and heard a recording that the flight was leaving on time, no I didn't check our actual booking in the lead up to our holiday. As our flight was changed at 7pm the night prior to flying and we were leaving home at 5.30am the next morning it made it a bit difficult for us to be aware of a flight time change.

 

[ShezMac]

TA has assured me that DID NOT receive notification, and Qantas have failed to provide me with the proof that they sent out such an email.

 

[UP4014]

Re: Dismissed without consultation

QF try to phone all the passengers when this happens as far as I can ascertain. They send a text as well. This is only base don my experience and get contacted by QF when overseas or locally for a flight change even if only 30 mins later.

If they don't have the number but think they do, because the travel agent gave them theirs I'm not sure how that will work, you need to find out if QF contacted the TA in question.

Good luck, claim on travel insurance if you can only to save you the grief of dealing with QF and the TA.

Matt

 

[ShezMac]

When talking to Qantas on one of the many phone calls I was given the impression that someone more important than me was given our seats. The conversation went something like "you may not be aware of it but sometime we have to move passengers because of certain circumstances depending on their level of FF status", as I am only a Bronze flyer I am at the bottom of the pecking order. Still not happy, the fight will continue.

 

[RichardMEL]

I would be pushing QF as to why you were moved at all

unless they anticipated cancelling the 1140, but that seems unlikely as QF usually wait to cancel before doing a move, and besides the 0700 was an extra section anyway. it seems highly unusual to me.