Missed flight: No notification of Lord Howe Island flight rebooking/time change

[MEL_Traveller]

If they don't have the number but think they do, because the travel agent gave them theirs I'm not sure how that will work, you need to find out if QF contacted the TA in question.

Matt

it should be simple... if you don't have a contact you don't make an involuntary change. That of course depends what is reasonable... via the TA is ok if there is sufficient time.

 

[ShezMac]

That is the frustrating thing, both the 7.00 and 11.40 on 14/11 flights landed on LHI, then nothing after that that we were scheduled on, that is Tuesday & Wednesday

 

[RichardMEL]

Side question re accom...

given the weather situation causes havoc on a regular basis there, surely the providers would have a policy if you can't make it in due to this? I mean it's clearly a regular occurance. I find it a bit odd if the accom wouldn't come to the party given evidence of the cancelled flights on tue/wed?

 

[ShezMac]

Yes, the accommodation doesn't look out, they are laughing every time it's bad weather, take the money but don't even have to feed the clients. Bit rough isn't it.

 

[kpc]

What I didn't like about LDH is the expensive relatively basic (bar one place - Capella lodge which is luxurious but VERY expensive ) accommodation....not only do they charge for the room if your departure flight is delayed, they charge rack rate and expect you to claim from insurance! So they basically double dip and are actually selling the same room twice!

 

[Princess Fiona]

Ok, I'll just chime in with my thoughts.
If this happened to me I'd be furious with the airline and TA. I think it's appallingly bad practice that passengers can be moved to a different flight at such short notice without any fail safe mechanism of notifying them of the change.
The OP's TA must share some of the blame here for not supplying their clients' full contact details on the ticket unless of course they are willing and able to receive GDS notifications 24/7 and act on them. They weren't in this case and should not be shirking their responsibilities.
As for QF they are no better. When it became apparent at the Airport that the flight change notification had not got through to the passengers an apology should have been forthcoming and the matter escalated immediately to senior staff and the OP made aware that this was happening.
It should not matter whether you're CL, Bronze or not even a member. The system of flight changes should be robust enough to make sure the message gets through to the passenger, especially when it's a flight to a destination such as LDH. Maybe I'd cut them some slack on SYD-MEL but seriously not here, no way at all.
As for the outcome I'd be expecting a written apology and some hefty points. The Accommodation will need to be claimed on TI.
Good luck OP

 

[serfty]

I don't blame the TA at all. This is failure from Qantas 100%.

Qantas had the ShezMac party's Frequent Flyer numbers - they could have tried to contact them.

Maybe it suited QF for some booked PAX not to travel to LDH that day? Maybe they hid behind the TA "relationship".

 

[williamsf1]

TA has assured me that DID NOT receive notification, and Qantas have failed to provide me with the proof that they sent out such an email.

Once again- Qantas does not send out emails – the only possible exception is if this was a holiday package booked direct ( via travel agent) with QF but it does not sound like this was the case

Below is the info from the Qantas agents site

Qantas Schedule Change
You will receive notification via an SSR / RM Remark in the GDS Schedule Change queue whenever an itinerary is impacted by a schedule change on a Qantas flight.

The following information outlines the policy available to self-manage customers who have been affected by a Schedule Change to a Qantas Domestic or Qantas International flight^.

^ Qantas flights are those with a 'QF' flight number and include Qantas codeshare flights operated by other carriers.

 

[eastwest101]

Ah yes - but was it a schedule change?

Maybe not because the OP was unilaterally moved onto a different flight number that departed at 7am which is 4 hours earlier. The originally scheduled flight also operated, but the OP's booking had been removed from this 1140am flight.

I think we all know that LDH flights are fuel/range limited in "iffy" weather with very limited diversion options. No excuses for QF though, it's not as if they don't have a long record of operating Dash 8s to LDH.

 

[opusman]

Not a schedule change, the OP was involuntarily rebooked.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Not a schedule change, the OP was involuntarily rebooked.

Still appears as a schedule change in the gds and is acted upon in the same way. I.e its in the agents queue for actioning. However if its within 24 hours its the airlines responsibility

 

[RichardMEL]

This is really difficult with only part of the story and some of us (me included probably) have been making some assumptions. eg the TA's involvement and/or how whoever made this decision at QF acted (and more to the point.. WHY) and only someone with access to the PNR and whatever notes are in there could sched more light on the matter.

I'm more in the PF camp on this issue in that I feel the TA shares some responsibility.

Here's why I feel this.

1. Often TA's will put THEIR contact details in the PNR, and not always the pax's. In this specific case IF this happened then they are taking responsibility for the booking as the primary contact. Think of the example of a celeb or something who has a manager/PA or whatever who would deal with all that. The pax's FF# may be in the booking, but what if the PA's details were in there as the contact? Who is then responsible? The PA. Just a broad example. In the case where perhaps the TA has put the full pa contact info in the PNR, then their responsibility is diminished IMHO however...

2. How many times have we made a booking through a TA and then when we want to make a change or whatever the airline will often refer back to the original TA who issued it for changes etc. That's not passing the buck because the airline, or hotel or whatever is not the booking agent and they should refer back to them.

3. QF claims contact was made - let's say it was a SSR in the PNR - by their procedures that probably equates to appropriate notification. Common sense agrees with the post above that suggests if pax had not checked in for the 0700 flight that perhaps that went astray, but then again you've got X pax on a flight is it for the check in staff to go through each no show booking? They don't really have time do they? From their point of view they are working a flight and they don't care about the history of who is booked on the flight just to get it out with whoever has checked in.

4. WHY WHY WHY was this change made. This is the cornerstone for me of the bizarre nature of this situation. It makes zero sense to me given the timing and the fact that the original flight was scheduled and in fact went out. It makes no sense to move pax off the flight. Yes, LDH is "special" but really.....


If it were me apart from being livid I'd focus on the following questions:

1. WHY was the decision made to move the pax to the extra section in the first place? By who and for what reason?

2. QF say they made notification. Was it by SSR? Was the SSR accepted (this would be in the PNR). If so, then you have to turn to the TA for their share of responsibility. And while 7pm on a Sunday night is out of hours a TA worth their salt would have monitoring in place for changes and notify. This is only in the case of the notification being acknowledged. if not, then why did QF not call the pax to verbally confirm? If not the pax then the TA contact#? What documentation is there?

3. TA's PNR - are they using a different res system? do they cover out of hours stuff? they say they received nothing but again this is not email, but in the PNR. Is it a large chain or a single type operation?

I absolutely agree that QF bears the brunt of the responsibility here - for making a decision with 12 hours notice and seemingly not following through directly on it. I'd love to know what the real story there is because there's no way an automated system has done this. This is a human decision.

I also agree status etc has zero to do with it.

I think there's no denial of responsibility from QF at least from what the OP has written about this which is something good, but there's much unexplained here that is bothersome

and I know I have no wish to travel to LDH ever (not that I had much interest before)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I do not necessarily think Qantas owes anyone an explanation as to why the passengers were moved other than the standard 'operational requirements' disclaimer.

I would expect them to take responsibility and compensate for the initially missed flight, however, and then provide whatever cooperation is needed to assist with a travel insurance claim. Reasonable notice was not given.

except that this is a potential breach of contract, and either QF has to offer an explanation, or accept total responsibility and fully compensate for all losses... which would be all the accommodation.

'operational requirements' is not a general catch all... it has a reasonably specific meaning, which is that it must affect the safe operation of the aircraft. But QF must show this was the case if it wishes to excuse itself from liability.

 

[RichardMEL]

I do not necessarily think Qantas owes anyone an explanation as to why the passengers were moved other than the standard 'operational requirements' disclaimer.

I would expect them to take responsibility and compensate for the initially missed flight, however, and then provide whatever cooperation is needed to assist with a travel insurance claim. Reasonable notice was not given.

Agree totally with the 2nd part.

Agree partially with the first. Operational Requirements make little sense if the originally booked flight went out as scheduled.

To me, the coverall of operational requirements can cover things like delays (not the case here), aircraft subs (unlikely, as I think only a certain size a/c can do this flight - a DH8?), seat swaps(goes without saying) and similar.

I think the real beef here from the OP is not so much the swap to an earlier flight (afterall they would have got there earlier) but the lack of confirmed notification. One can argue that in the case of a flight delay, or even rebooking to a later service, that even if the pax don't get the message they show up for their flight and the worst case is they wait - still a real hassle and annoying, but they get their flight. This is different when you expect and plan to get there for an 1140 departure but you've been moved nearly 5 hours earlier - that's something else totally - specially with barely 12 hours notice... but even then if they'd gotten a nofircation they could at least deal with res and say yes this works, no it doesn't, or whatever.

I'd want to bloody well know why I was moved to an *EARLIER* flight. Sure they can cover it with anything, but I'd be annoyed if I got the "operational requirements" bS specially when one sees the original flight went out as scheduled (but I do wonder about an equipment swap of some sort now maybe to one with less capacity?)

Plus I've found when it comes to customer service that more often than not must customers when given a reasonable explanation for something going on are reasonable about it - specially if it makes sense and is timely. It's when you're told nothing or given the run around it really makes things that much worse.

For example, if I was on that flight and I had a call say 8pm the night before saying "We're terribly sorry but we need to move you to a 7am service tomorrow because due to today's flight being cancelled, we're running this service at 7am, but we've had to use a smaller aircraft for the flight you were booked on and there's now not enough room on it, is 7am OK for you?" I think it would be a PITA, but at least would make sense (and of course you know there's a change!)

Maybe QF don't have to go into full detail, but gee I'd want a reasonable explanation for a change like this (quite apart from the whole lack of notification issue)

and just on that, let's say QF generated an email to the OP (though with 12h to go they'd probably also send a text and you'd hope for a phone call tbh) - email is not always 100% reliable. What if the OP's ISP was down for a few hours, or the email went into a spam mailbox, or the OP simply did not check their email - not everyone is connected 24/7 etc - one can not assume. I'd want to know what form the alleged "notification" took - is there documented there? Got to wonder.

my 18c worth

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My bad, then. I thought airlines usually reserved the right to move passengers around due to their own needs. It just does not happen that often in Australia.

I would still expect something like "We moved them as is our right, but we did not do it properly, sorry, here is a chunk of cash and please let us know how else we can assist".

I think it's like any breach of contract... the breaching party can do whatever they want... as long as they pay for it there is nothing 'illegal' about breaching a contract, it's a civil issue. airlines can't move passengers 'as a right' and this is reflected in consumer law (although rarely nicely enshrined like the EU compensation regime).

seat swapping for 'operational' reasons may include weight and balance, not sitting minors at an emergency exit, or even moving passengers to sit parents with young children. It does not cover moving a non-status passenger so a CL can have their favourite seat. That might be a commercial reason, not operational. (Although even if the airline does move a non-status passenger the compensation would probably be zero so good luck trying to sue over it.)

 

[ShezMac]

Thank you RichardMEL, you make a lot of sense. Yes there is a lot unexplained and Qantas will not explain Why the changed our flights. We booked thru helloworld who in turn book thru Oxley Travel who I understand handle LHI bookings so it we didn't use a small unknown TA. I have lost interest in every going to LHI again or trying to go.

 

[get me outta here]

Remember the good old days when by now the Red Roo would have offered to assist?

 

[Bundy Bear]

Remember the good old days when by now the Red Roo would have offered to assist?

That option was enhanced, I guess it was considered not economically viable.

 

[get me outta here]

Red Roo was last on line officially a week ago. From my experience w' QF in the pasr year or so, RR would have way too much work on their plate trying to sort out the problems and stuff ups.

That option was enhanced, I guess it was considered not economically viable.

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes, but is there not ample evidence of aircraft types been swapped for commercial reasons with no compensation whatsoever? Are you saying that differs because the airline has not promised to fly you there in a particular type of plane?

there are 2 examples of this that I can think of:

1. aircraft type resized to meet demand, such as subbing a 330 for 737 (or v.v.) on a trunk route

these should not disrupt confirmed passenger bookings on a flight (I'm not talking about cancelling flights with few bookings)

this sort of thing does not demand compensation - if your booked flight departs as scheduled with you on it, say it's downgraded from a 330 to a 737, while that sucks in several ways for many of us, your contract of carriage does not promise things like a/c type, catering available and seat selection.

2. aircraft sub due to: mechanical, unavailability of a/c, etc

- when this results in booked/confirmed passengers being disrupted

- then the issue is flights/schedule changes for some passengers due to this happening.

The 2nd issue comes under "operational requirements"
to me, the first, is due to commercial requirements IMHO

Also the first is within qf's control, the 2nd usually is not in respect that they don't plan for a mx issue, or weather delaying inbound a/c or a security issue or something.