NBN Discussion

[33kft]

That's fair enough @straitman, I don't blame you for walking away from it - but the reality is that neither 4G nor 5G networks possess the ability to replace fixed line networks. What is happening at the end user level for some NBN subscribers is beyond my comprehension but network wise it is far and away a more reliable and scalable solution than microwave. We know this because we've been constructing fixed-line networks for reliable comms for decades - from undersea links to data centres. When Google start rolling out data centres where servers communicate over microwave I'd say there was something to it but ultimately the only reliable form of network communication for data transfer today consists of wired connections. Mobile data is a convenience app but if I had to rely on it for day to day business use I'd be very unhappy, especially with the terrible mobile service we have had in our area for as long as I can remember.

Perhaps the biggest irony of the whole thing is that more than likely in 99% of cases the issue lies with the cheap wifi routers providers dish out to customers and not the expensive fibre network. There is also the issue of RSP contention at POIs but that doesn't result in the sort of complaints I've seen daily on Facebook. I work from home, I work with enterprise networks and I have been on FTTC for a year now. I have not had a single interruption I haven't caused myself. That said I see constant complaints in my area on Facebook that people are without NBN for days and I can only conclude that it's at the last mile. Not only do I plug into the same infrastructure as they do but most of that infrastructure (save for the FTTC concentrator) is passive and just can't differ between them and I. I would suppose it is the copper pair that was re-used for FTTC except i see FTTP users around us (part of my suburb was an early FTTP trial but not my area unfortunately) complaining about the same thing which is unfathomable since they are literally hanging off a piece of glass that is spliced from a GPON trunk that is powered only back at the exchange, and yet they have issues, somehow.

For me it's been nothing but bliss since I got it. I was hanging off a "RIM", the product of a 90s era Telecom experiment in cost savings by splitting fibre into copper voice channels at boxes on the street, just before ADSL was invented (which needed a nice copper path to the exchange to work well). I have lived with the worst of worst (for a metro service in a capital city 15kmfrom the CBD) internet service until now - 8mbps was our ADSL2+ modulation speed at the RIM, but that 8mbps was backhauled onto 20mbps services shared by the entire street. I would not go back for quids. I think the NBN was a giant turkey but I will happily keep my heavily taxpayer subsidised service which is 12 times faster and much more reliable than my previous service and at the current rate of people abandoning ship I reckon it will be a few times over faster than that in the future with all the excess capacity I will have access to

 

[33kft]

I should add that it is likely due to the fact that I've run Cat6 all through the house and the entire network is wired that I and my colleagues (who tend to do the same) haven't seen the issues many others have. Perhaps fast fixed line internet just isn't for the average household? It sounded good, but who has the infrastructure internally to match the external service? If all people want is a wireless service to occasionally download things quickly, 4G/5G is perfect for this and requires nothing more than a phone handset. Meanwhile you have people with fibre up to the side of their house and a cheap netgear wifi router on the 2nd floor with 40 smart devices connected to it that stops working for days at a time. Perhaps people thought they wanted an NBN but actually wanted a decently priced 4G plan?

I put specific value in the dependability of a fixed line service for my day to day work needs but the more I think about it, the more I doubt the average consumer wants it or needs it. This is exactly what I felt would happen when the NBN was announced, having had the same service in Singapore for years prior. I'd heard all the hand waving about how we'd use it for home education and medical procedures and it would turn us into some sort of smart economy. Yet when I saw how people in Singapore were using it, they'd connect their PS4 to a wifi router to the wall and watch youtube on their phone. Seems it just wasn't worth the price tag.

 

[Lynda2475]

NBN is not known for good customer service. And it is not the fault of TPG either. They only sell the plan. NBN owns and operates the network.

This isnt exactly correct as nbn do not deal directly with end users, as they are a wholesaler. A lot of the experience in the install and activation phase is down to the RSP, as they book the appointments, ship the router and are supposed to communicate to their customers. If there is an issue you call yoru RSP and belive me there is a huge difference between the different RSPs, many dont even bothere to log the fault with nbn unless you really push. Plus some RSPs dont buy enough CVC so cause their own congestion. On FTTN and FTTC many issues also relate to your in home wiring, which nbn is not repsonsible for.

NBN have requested Optus to shut down their HFC network in our area by mid-June 2020. Roughly 9 months earlier than the normal 18 month period.

Optus are well known for this lie. The period where Optus and Telstra can run competing fixed line product is called the co-existence period and it is always 18 months after RFS. Telstra abide by this for Telstra Cable and ADSL, but Optus cable got an exemption and try to only give their cable customers 3 months to switch because as soon as their customers connect to nbn they get a payment for retiring their network, This decision is solely Optus'. Also as soon as we went into lock-down nbn agreed to pause all end of co-existance disconnections so there is no need to switch due to anythign nbn has done. If the letter does actually say that nbn is asking for the connection then you shoudl challeng it because that is not the case, and the obudsmna has warned Optus about misrepresenting the facts before.

Ram your install ordeal sounds like a real drama.

Here is a hint though, for those switching from Optus Cable (like my Dad did) or ADSL to nbn HFC then you have the luxury of keeping your existoing internet whilest you gte nbn connected, as an nbn HFC connection does not reuse any of your Optus HFC or Tesltra copper network. So sign up to nbn with a new RSP say Aussie Broadband (the best one), make sure it is all working, before calling Optus to discoonect your other internet and churn your you landline to voip.

FYI My dad preferred the position of his optus HFC wall plate in his office and fact that the multiple phones were all wored back to it. So the nbn install guy put a splitter in the nbn hfc box on the side of the house and connected foxtel cable to one side and then disconnected the internal coax from the optus box (wehich was right next to it) and reconnected it to the other side of the splitter on the nbn box. And presto the nbn now used the optus installed in house cabling, which means he can use all landline phone extesnions, once he connected the phone socket on what was a optus wall plate to hsi router telpehone port (plus the time it took for the number to port form Optus to Aussie). We only cancelled his Optus account a week later once we knew all was stable and ok.

 

[Lynda2475]

We put up with poor reliablity NBN for 2 years. The NBN needed to be reset almost daily and appeared to have a much lower bandwidth than the the 4G. ie frequently ran into limits with multiple users whereas the 4G has never had an issue.

Due to some research for my job i have an Optus 4G modem and a Optus 6G modem at my place in addition the nbn - all 3 have boxes attached that do regualr speed tests and downloads to report performance. Since the lockdown, the 4G modem has been highly congested with a lot of extra people using their mobile data, it rarely gets above 25Mbps, the 5G isnt congested at all because so few people have 5G it ranges from 300Mbps-500Mbps consistently, and my nbn connection Im only on a 50/20 plan consistently gets 48/19.

If you are in an area with a low number of optus mobile data users, then yes you will get good performance and if that works for you great, but if yoiu live in a higher density area you may not get anywhere near those speeds due to number of concurrent users. Mobiel networks are shared bandwidth the same as Fixed Wireless or HFC. IF you get great Optus mobile coverage it may be more economic to get a Optus 4G or 5G modem which is unlimited rathere than tethering to your mobile phone.

WRT poor nbn performance, just wondering who your RSP was ? Did you RSP run the test to detcet if there were in hoem wiring issues? Did they have your potential in-home wiring issues physicallyu looked at (there is an nbn program that RSPs can utlise or you can get a licensed cabler to investigate)? Did the RSP arrnage for nbn technican to come out and investigate?

 

[Dee#]

When you say FTTK you mean FTTC, FTTB, FTTN or FTTP.

An NBN boycott can’t be sustained unless you are going to rely on the 4G /5G forever.

NBN is not known for good customer service. And it is not the fault of TPG either. They only sell the plan. NBN owns and operates the network.

Still I would give it another go.

TPG were great they let us off the plan. We had been with them for years. currently we are getting 55g (25g free from Telstra for China virus lockdown months) on each 4G phone. Can certainly stream TV.

Fibre to the Kerb. Always thought Kerb in English is spelt with a K not C. 5G is already in some WA suburbs. Hopefully we get it soon. Something monumental would have to happen for us to get NBN back again. They are a monopoly and you are held to ransom. It is ok if all is going well but no good if not.
I have read if you get Telstra as a provider and NBN sh*tts itself your modem switches to 4G. Sounds like a good plan.

Used to live in Darwin. We were one of the first suburbs to get fibre to the house.They just pulled the cable up the Telstra conduits. Hardly any digging in the street. Lots of boxes fixed to the wall 2 inside and 1 out. NBN was great then. No problems But as soon as the network expanded and more people using it you should have seen it slow down!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[33kft]

I have read if you get Telstra as a provider and NBN sh*tts itself your modem switches to 4G. Sounds like a good plan.

Only if you pay extra for their more expensive Frontier "modem", and it is speed capped to a certain speed (~6mbps). You are essentially paying for the backup service.

 

[Quickstatus]

I have read if you get Telstra as a provider and NBN sh*tts itself your modem switches to 4G. Sounds like a good plan.

hehe. Do you want to know what that 4g failover speed is?.....

We have dumped NBN at 25 Mbps to use 4G at 200 to 300 Mbps. Also cheaper for us.

Yes but how much data are you consuming to make it cheaper.

We put up with poor reliablity NBN for 2 years

Whats your MTM?

 

[straitman]

Yes but how much data are you consuming to make it cheaper.


Whats your MTM?

1. We now have 500Gb available.
2. What’s MTM?

 

[JessicaTam]

Just to add to my comments.
We put up with poor reliablity NBN for 2 years. The NBN needed to be reset almost daily and appeared to have a much lower bandwidth than the the 4G. ie frequently ran into limits with multiple users whereas the 4G has never had an issue.

And just down the road I have ditched my Telstra 4G service in preference for fixed line NBN (ABB).

 

[Quickstatus]

FTTx
HFC
FW
SM

How much are you playing for 500gb?

 

[JessicaTam]

FTTx
HFC
FW
SM

How much are you playing for 500gb?

FTTK and $79 for unlimited usage.

 

[Quickstatus]

Come on there is no such thing as FTTK..Curb people not kerb

 

[TheRealTMA]

Come on there is no such thing as FTTK..Curb people not kerb

Actually, the “official” spelling of the word is “kerb” in Australia. “Curb“is a US and Canada spelling.

Kick It To The Kerb, Not The Curb

In Australian (and UK) English, the edge of the road is referred to as the ‘kerb’. In US English, it is known as the ‘curb’. We can accept these differences; they happen often. But in an Australian context, that means the correct expression is ‘kick it to the kerb’. Kerb picture from...

www.lifehacker.com.au

 

[straitman]

FTTx
HFC
FW
SM

How much are you playing for 500gb?

$66/month

 

[DC3]

Come on there is no such thing as FTTK..Curb people not kerb

Actually, the “official” spelling of the word is “kerb” in Australia. “Curb“is a US and Canada spelling.

Kick It To The Kerb, Not The Curb

In Australian (and UK) English, the edge of the road is referred to as the ‘kerb’. In US English, it is known as the ‘curb’. We can accept these differences; they happen often. But in an Australian context, that means the correct expression is ‘kick it to the kerb’. Kerb picture from...

www.lifehacker.com.au

As in Curb Your Enthusiasm.

 

[Quickstatus]

Exactly. Thats what a NBN experience post connection sometimes is

 

[Dee#]

Come on there is no such thing as FTTK..Curb people not kerb

What's a curb?

 

[Dee#]

What's a curb?

Roadside 'kerb'
'Curb' your enthusiasm

 

[serfty]

Only if you pay extra for their more expensive Frontier "modem", and it is speed capped to a certain speed (~6mbps). You are essentially paying for the backup service.

We pay no extra for the 4G Telstra backup modem - have had NBN for 10 months & yes, the speed is limited to under 6Mbps.

There was actually a period for a nearly week late last year when contractors building a new railway station close by "accidentally" killed much of the NBN in the area. Still OK in our perception (at the time) as the 6Mbps was still far better then the 5Mbps ADSL of the previous 5 years and 2Mbps ADSL of 2019, although WFH was not a thing and I had not yet purchased a Chromecast

My FTTKC installation story was a precis of @RAM's experiences. (Basically a pit which had grown over - in the end they connected a 'signal' to the dwelling's copper wire and traced it with a detector to the unmapped pit.)

More here:

NBN workers have been around my local area readying for a June 'availability date'.

On Saturday 19th, at 6PM there was a notified service outage for landline for up to 6 hours.

Last Thursday 24th, it came back on, > 110 hours later.

It seems the NBN 457 dudes managed to cut a main cable (According to the Telstra tech who found a 'new pair' for us, it appears to have taken them two days to admit to having done so).

We did get to enjoy ~26Mbps 4G in the mean time.

Now our ADSL2+ had gone from a solid (i.e. consistent) 5.9Mbps to a variable up to (at best) 3.9Mbps with occasional complete drop outs.

That post was on Jan 30 2019.

These days I would be happy with a consistent 3.9Mbps, but a lot of the time now,our 'phones simply reject the wifi while waiting for "the connection to improve" and use 4G. Of course this is little help for the desktops and other devices.

I was going to wait at least a year, but feel this is no longer viable, so have bitten the bullet and arranged to have the FTTC connected. I managed to negotiate a deal with my existing ISP (Telstra) for the same monthly cost as current, no "connection fee", same data more inclusive home landline IP phone call rates and retaining our 20+ year old email addresses.

Well, until January it was 6Mbps, but reliable.

This is now just in time.

Over Saturday we had lots of ADSL dropouts - I'd reset the modem ... it would sync. then drop out ashort time later - anything from 5 seconds to 15 minutes.

On Sunday I turned them modem off for two hours to perhaps help by letting it 'cool down'. After that it would not turn back on. A quick check with the multi-meter showed the issue to be the 22v power pack. Opening that up revealed a blown diode in the interestingly complex circuitry (for a power pack).

I was not going blow $30 on a replacement, nor try to repair it given it would be redundant in three days.

Bring on FTTC FTTK!

The Telstra Hub arrived 10 days ago and on Wednesday, the tech. arrived 90 minutes early (they called first) to connect FTTC.

They could not find the PIT to access my copper! He showed me a map that indicated the area of the nature strip where the pit was supposed to be but there was nothing to be seen or discoverable with a probe. The area indicated has been nothing but grass in the seven years I have resided there. He checked all nearby pits as well but was unable to locate the specific wires.

So, he has referred it to "civil works", who apparently will come along and send a signal along my copper and use detectors to trace the wiring. (There was a sort of suggestion that when "the NBN" workers came through in January, they would not have been able to find the pit either; despite this, documentation exists that shows my address as having been NBN readied at that time.)

After two hours he left.

My ISP account page yesterday shows my NBN as being "On Hold".

Last evening I received a text "... NBN has updated that they have as issue with your NBN connection to your home and we will get back to you on 22/07/2019 ..."

The good news? The Telstra Hub has 4G backup (albeit shaped) and I am now getting a reliable 6½ Mbps which is better than I have ever had from ADSL 2+ at this location and certainly better than the unreliable 2½Mbps that we have lived with for most of this year.

They came last Wednesday - found the pit along the street some thirty metres from where the map indicated. It had been overgrown with 6cm of turf.

A tech is booked to attempt installation for Friday morning,

 

[Lynda2475]

Personally I think the routers/gateways from Telstra & Optus*Vodafone with the 4G backup are relatively useless because of the slow speed they throttle to. In the rare event of an NBN outage it is actually much better to tether your Compter or TV to your mobile phone where there is no limiting and even in busiy times you will get a min of 25Mbps.