New VA Fare Structure

[Bolthead]

I thought I had read in other threads that some people have deliberately purchased cheaper flights... (say last flight of the day) and then use Fly Ahead without penalty....Personally it wouldn't bother me if they tightened up the rules with Fly Ahead or make it WP only. I am now in the position that I plan the time of the flight that suits me. If the price is not right I just pick another day or whatever.

I am not sure how you really 'rort' fly ahead.

If there is an empty seat on a earlier flight and you only have carry on, what extra cost is it for VA??

They always can say, "no". Then they have the extra cost of feeding and watering you in the lounge............

 

[Mattg]

If there is an empty seat on a earlier flight and you only have carry on, what extra cost is it for VA??

They always can say, "no". Then they have the extra cost of feeding and watering you in the lounge............

It's not costing them anything per-se, but there's an opportunity cost of lost revenue when a passenger uses their $99 ticket on a flight that's selling for $399. The passenger may have been willing to pay $399 (although admittedly that's not likely) but didn't because they know they can "fly ahead". It's effectively overriding the yield management mechanisms the airline has in place.

 

[medhead]

Can;t believe some of the Facebook posts about this. perhaps I better check but some people are claiming there is a change to the use of platinum upgrades - Seriously? Those have only ever been usable for flexi fares. Has that changed?

 

[anat0l]

Can;t believe some of the Facebook posts about this. perhaps I better check but some people are claiming there is a change to the use of platinum upgrades - Seriously? Those have only ever been usable for flexi fares. Has that changed?

You mean they allow them on the cheapest fares now or something?


The only recent change to these is that they can now be used on the short haul international network as well as domestic, but you still need a Flexi fare, as far as I can recall.

 

[Cryptarcadian]

It's not costing them anything per-se, but there's an opportunity cost of lost revenue when a passenger uses their $99 ticket on a flight that's selling for $399. The passenger may have been willing to pay $399 (although admittedly that's not likely) but didn't because they know they can "fly ahead". It's effectively overriding the yield management mechanisms the airline has in place.

As you say, not likely... if seats were up to $399 chances are not good that fly ahead would have been available anyway.

And if that's what they're trying to stop then VA are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, not to mention being potentially counter-productive.

Think of the scenario where your employer booked you on a 6pm flight, but you finished the day early and could've flown ahead on the 5pm flight, but it ended up being $50 more expensive on paper by the time you arrived at the lounge. That's not a rort. Seat goes out empty, and you'd just end up eating and drinking more in the lounge instead.

And it turns out, there's some IRROPS incident, your 6pm and a bunch of other flights are cancelled, VA ends up ponying up for a night's accommodation (probably for someone else, because with status you made it on to the last flight out instead). VA could've saved money if they let you fly ahead and had one less passenger to rebook, but instead it costs them.

Abolishing fly ahead as we know it by enforcing a fare differential would be a short-sighted and stupid way of throwing away one of VA's only innovative differentiators. How about giving each member a finite number of fly aheads each year? Only allowing fly ahead within 5 hours of your original ticket? Lots of options to explore without crippling the benefit itself.

 

[Major]

Another option would be to keep fly ahead but increase the price of the last flight. This might force passengers to put more thought into selecting a particular flight.

 

[anat0l]

Another option would be to keep fly ahead but increase the price of the last flight. This might force passengers to put more thought into selecting a particular flight.

The irony is that the nominal prices of tickets are dictated by demand. The cheaper price on the last flight of the day nominally implies that it is not as popular a choice compared to what we understand to be the common peak hour. The price is cheaper to encourage people to fly on that flight; without that kind of incentive, a carrier may be tempted to can the flight due to lack of demand.

Of course, had enough Golds and Platinums "abused" Fly Ahead by selecting the last flight, one might be led to believe that the nominal ticket price had been artificially inflated due to what turns out to be rather phantom demand....

 

[MH_fan]

Tried to get an earlier flight last Sunday in Melbourne after unexpectedly finishing my day 3 hours earlier. Couldn't get an earlier flight because they were mostly full. It didn't help that one of the flights was cancelled.

 

[serfty]

...
My understanding of the changes are if there is a $99 fare available on the 6pm service and you are on the last flight fly ahead will be as it is today, but if only a $399 fare available you will have to pay a fee or the full difference.

That's basically as the T&C's state now (via Fare bucket availability) - but it was not very well enforced.

I am not sure how you really 'rort' fly ahead.

If there is an empty seat on a earlier flight and you only have carry on, what extra cost is it for VA??

They always can say, "no". Then they have the extra cost of feeding and watering you in the lounge............

As indicated the extra cost is "opportunity" - PAX can buy that $99 "T" fare take the good odds they'll be able to travel on a flight where only "B" is available since the T&C's were not being adhered to by lounge staff.

.... It didn't help that one of the flights was cancelled.

That'll do it! (although there's more chance of flow forwarding).

 

[NZflygirl]

Just booked an E90 flight. The ENTIRE plane was Space+ seating - 18AUD for the charge. Needless to say I didn't seat select.

**See comments below - I didn't pay enough attention

 

[kevrosmith]

Just booked an E90 flight. The ENTIRE plane was Space+ seating - 18AUD for the charge. Needless to say I didn't seat select.

What route were you trying to book? And what status do you have with Velocity?

Just looked at flights on a usual Domestic route I fly, and as Platinum, only Exit rows were showing as Space+ for both E190 and B73H.

 

[Milefest]

Another option would be to keep fly ahead but increase the price of the last flight. This might force passengers to put more thought into selecting a particular flight.

People would still get the cheapest latest flight available. The last flight of the night isn't always the cheapest anyway.

 

[NZflygirl]

What route were you trying to book? And what status do you have with Velocity?

Just looked at flights on a usual Domestic route I fly, and as Platinum, only Exit rows were showing as Space+ for both E190 and B73H.

View attachment 76983 View attachment 76984

Splatinum.
I know what I did wrong now
- seat selected is dark red when clicked on, but at top left where your name is and you choose a seat its pink like the colour of the space + seat at the top of the page and the picture immediately below is of what looks like regular seating to me but underneath it is the space+ AUD 18. I think the colouring of my name area and the whole picture thing made me think I was selecting space + - I was waiting for the picture to change or colour of name to change to a non pink seat.

Wasn't paying too much attention obviously.
Might go back and try and select a seat later then!

 

[medhead]

You mean they allow them on the cheapest fares now or something?


The only recent change to these is that they can now be used on the short haul international network as well as domestic, but you still need a Flexi fare, as far as I can recall.

It was a complaint. Both of those are positives. I'm perplexed by the whole thing.

 

[Bolthead]

See: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-family-pooling-27-a-75325-4.html#post1495502

I just had an issue with Family Pooling which the Velocity team fixed for me, however she did say that the problem I had will be a new rule which I am guessing will be announced with the new VA fare Structure. (not 100% sure on that as she didn't give me a release date.) As well I asked when will the new prices will be released and she said not until the 7th September.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Abolishing fly ahead as we know it by enforcing a fare differential would be a short-sighted and stupid way of throwing away one of VA's only innovative differentiators. How about giving each member a finite number of fly aheads each year? Only allowing fly ahead within 5 hours of your original ticket? Lots of options to explore without crippling the benefit itself.

Agree with your comments and I'll also add that when someone books a $99 fare, the difference between this and a flexible fare won't be the same on departure as when the original booking was made. So while some passengers may pay $50 for the flexibility - almost nobody would pay $300. It's not a straight up fare pricing issue because as time passes the costs will increase, but the urgency won't necessarily follow the same trend line of importance for each customer.

The risk now is the overall cost of not having fly ahead may not be worthwhile... Increased lounge consumption, crowding of lounges, unnecessary high flight loads, the % of pax who will give up on retaining VA status, the same % of VA pax who then give up on earning Velocity points, the groups/businesses/families who take the same approach and the lost revenue from not approaching it from a different way.

For example VA could introduce a flat points fee.
Platinum: 5,000 points = fly ahead
Gold: 7,500 points = fly ahead

This attributes a real cost to the benefit and locks out non-elites unless they stump up the cash.
Also requires more 'buy-in' for the frequent flyer as they require points.
There are real risks by linking the perceived actual cost by rev management to the cost of points internally. If these match - the benefit is degraded further.

However, by requiring a certain ticket type it now renders the benefit useless as any status level pax can do this.
Very short sighted indeed.

It's not costing them anything per-se, but there's an opportunity cost of lost revenue when a passenger uses their $99 ticket on a flight that's selling for $399. The passenger may have been willing to pay $399 (although admittedly that's not likely) but didn't because they know they can "fly ahead". It's effectively overriding the yield management mechanisms the airline has in place.

VA has very little dynamic pricing intelligence around what a customer may be willing to pay for a flight. I would suggest not having this intelligence capability is costing them well into the TENS OF MILLIONS annually, compounded by then not having analytical insight to who and what is driving purchase decisions. Almost every major airline is investing in sophisticated and predictive pricing systems.
If VA were to go down this road - the information would flow over into Velocity too and is likely a reason they acquired torque data.

 

[Milefest]

VA has very little dynamic pricing intelligence around what a customer may be willing to pay for a flight. I would suggest not having this intelligence capability is costing them well into the TENS OF MILLIONS annually, compounded by then not having analytical insight to who and what is driving purchase decisions. Almost every major airline is investing in sophisticated and predictive pricing systems.

Not sure what intelligence they're using but I've come across Y flights that are more expenisve than J flights.

 

[dajop]

Not sure what intelligence they're using but I've come across Y flights that are more expenisve than J flights.

Probably no doubt tapping into the corporate bureaucracies that completely forbid J travel. Enlightened companies will have a rider that J can be taken if cheaper than Y, but I many expect would not.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Not sure what intelligence they're using but I've come across Y flights that are more expenisve than J flights.

That's not unique to VA, though. I've seen flights on QF with flexible economy more expensive than discount business fares.

 

[Pleb Status]

VA has very little dynamic pricing intelligence around what a customer may be willing to pay for a flight. I would suggest not having this intelligence capability is costing them well into the TENS OF MILLIONS annually, compounded by then not having analytical insight to who and what is driving purchase decisions. Almost every major airline is investing in sophisticated and predictive pricing systems.
If VA were to go down this road - the information would flow over into Velocity too and is likely a reason they acquired torque data.

From a customer point of view, the less 'intelligence' in fare pricing the better. These systems aim to gouge as much money from you as possible so why would I want that....