New VA Fare Structure

[williamsf1]

Official notice has gone to the Accelerate members.
VA is in their usual manner behaving as if they are in the Berlin bunker but there's no way it's speculation.

I go past the bunker at Gesundbrunnen each morning on the way to work .. I might knock on the door and see if I can wake the beast

 

[anat0l]

In other words, if you book the cheapest fare, there will be no fly ahead under any circumstances, even if seats in the same fare bucket are available on an earlier flight.

Fly Ahead or not, I would still have a go anyway if you wanted to try flying ahead. Not something like, "I'd like to fly ahead please," but like, "I realise my fare rules don't normally let me, but is there any chance I could fly on an earlier flight?" I'm sure others can proffer a more suitable line.

If a Red on the cheapest ticket could get on an earlier flight free of charge, then whilst you might not have 100% success, why couldn't a Platinum do the same?

One thought is whether VA will be (or are already) actively tracking all such ticket changes, logged with reasons. Someone said that QF were doing such a thing, which is why they suddenly became rather cold to top tier members re: changing flights on restrictive tickets.

Another thought is that Fly Ahead may be reworked, or even the fare rules. There was something earlier in this thread hinting that some fare conditions were being relaxed / offered more options / have cheaper fees. And we may not know this until the whole new scheme is released.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Oh swanning_it you are a little bit jaded I fear.
Very interesting to hear that QF would not consider pooled SC for a match. I've not heard of that previously.

Wow, that is truly incredible. I don't mind them not recognising SCs gained by pooling, as ultimately they are trying to fast track people who would actually earn the relevant status level in their program, but I don't even know what to say about them reneging on the deal.

Princess Fiona, I actually don't feel jaded (although I definitely am), but more relaxed....perhaps even relieved, at being "unshackled". It helps that I can retain some level of useful status without effort of course, but I'm genuinely enjoying being a no-body as far as the airlines are concerned. It also helps that I'm over lounges (the silly part is, as most FFers will know, I can have VA ATA whilst flying JQ regardless.....but I just don't bother) and actually prefer the terminal and really, the only thing I miss is priority baggage at the carousel (VA does seem to do that reasonably well). My only other concern will be service recovery on cancelled/delayed flights......time will tell on that score.

Jack3193, I should just explain the renege a little further (to be fair to QF, which is more than they were to me). I partially achieved the number of valid QF SCs via a double SC offer (gave me 60SCs for nicks). There was absolutely nothing in their conditions to prevent that and let's face it, SCs are only valid for status attainment/retainment so how can they argue that the double SCs can't be used for that purpose? Why have them? I made the same point to them, as you just did....ie "ultimately they are trying to fast track people who would actually earn the relevant status level in their program", plus the other not so moot point of transferring spend to them.........but they were adamant they would not consider me as having achieved the required level of SC earn (remembering I gained QF silver via usual earn, with SCs they didn't recognise as it was outside the challenge time frame......but cleared showed I was putting my spend where my mouth was). Others can debate the intricacies of that decision, but as far as I'm concerned it just proved to me that QF and QF status isn't worth worrying too much about and just get on with life. After all, many people ride a coughpy city council bus to work.......I just ride the airborne variety!

 

[medhead]

Yeah, that would be my reaction too! However, when you say "worth" do you mean what it's worth to you, or what it costs VA? Because the reality is, if you mean cost to VA, the xx is not likely to be a very high number. You can buy the beer they supply for less than $2.50 a bottle in Dan Murphy’s, and VA would obviously be paying a lot less than that at wholesale rates. The wine is cheap too, and of course they don’t serve spirits. So let’s say you have 10 or even 15 (!) drinks while you’re waiting – that would still be no big deal in terms of cost to VA, and clearly very few people would consume anything like that amount.

Who says you have to consume the drink?

 

[balla]

even pax with flexis and no status at all can fly forward at the moment

ps ...please don't take these changes out on the virgin check in staff

I am one of them

 

[Deleted member 29185]

even pax with flexis and no status at all can fly forward at the moment

ps ...please don't take these changes out on the virgin check in staff

I am one of them

Welcome to AFF. Would you care to share the goss about how VA staff are viewing these changes? I'd certainly not take out my displeasure on staff......provided the staff are doing their jobs. Many of us have noticed a dramatic downhill slide on service levels by flight crew so I'm wondering how much these changes are going to impact on staff morale/service/attitude?

 

[medhead]

even pax with flexis and no status at all can fly forward at the moment

ps ...please don't take these changes out on the virgin check in staff

I am one of them

Umm, yeah. That's the point of buying a Flexi fare. You pay extra to be flexible. Fly ahead shouldn't even be relevant to flexis. Also the terms and conditions clearly say that fly ahead is only available to gold and platinum. Therefore moving someone who is not gold or platinum on a flexi fare can not be fly ahead, and IMO must be due to the flexible nature of the purchased fare.

clause 23.5 https://www.velocityfrequentflyer.com/content/ProgramBenefits/TermsConditions/

 

[Tassieoptom]

even pax with flexis and no status at all can fly forward at the moment

ps ...please don't take these changes out on the virgin check in staff

I am one of them

Welcome Balla,

no worries from me on that front, have never been unhappy with checkin staff, quite the opposite actually, always been treated wonderfully and found most happy to have a short chat.

 

[balla]

hi swanning it.........limited in what ill say...staff not happy with changes...morale not good...Provide best poss service we can...not surprising with the move to the roo

 

[Deleted member 29185]

hi swanning it.........limited in what ill say...staff not happy with changes...morale not good...Provide best poss service we can...not surprising with the move to the roo

I'm not moving to the roo.....I'm moving to whichever carrier suits me best at the time. No loyalty, because that's exactly what VA is asking of us.

Good luck with the future, wear your tin hat and keep positive. BTW, pass your message about providing best possible service on to the cabin staff as their low morale and blantant lack of service (not all, but many) are a big part of the problem.

 

[anat0l]

Umm, yeah. That's the point of buying a Flexi fare. You pay extra to be flexible. Fly ahead shouldn't even be relevant to flexis. Also the terms and conditions clearly say that fly ahead is only available to gold and platinum. Therefore moving someone who is not gold or platinum on a flexi fare can not be fly ahead, and IMO must be due to the flexible nature of the purchased fare.

clause 23.5 https://www.velocityfrequentflyer.com/content/ProgramBenefits/TermsConditions/

even pax with flexis and no status at all can fly forward at the moment

Fly Ahead and changing your fare on a Flexi are subtly different things.

A flexible fare makes you pay more in order to have better rights in changing that ticket later (i.e. able to change on the day of travel), for a lesser price (i.e. no fees, assumed smaller fare differences). Fly Ahead is a FF benefit which allows you to fly on an earlier flight on the same day (on the condition that you are hand luggage only and a seat is available on the new flight). (What the underlined phrase means is up for interpretation).

Fly Ahead is, at least up to this point, assumed to be a benefit offered free of charge, i.e. a "normal" member requesting the same thing would normally be up for fare difference (where applicable); in cases of the cheapest fares, they would nominally not have the right to change at all.

However, you cannot use Fly Ahead to - by assumption - fly on a later flight during the same day, or fly on a flight on a different calendar day. Fly Ahead has no effect on your refund rules and rights.

So that's the difference between both Flexi fares and Fly Ahead.


In practice, anyone can ask any VA staff member for a change of flight and a VA staff member can assess that as to whether there will be a charge or not (or a change, or not). Flexi or not Flexi, Gold/Plat or not... the fare rules and defined benefits for Gold/Plat simply make the circumstances (and chances of success) more concrete - everyone else is more or less gambling.

ps ...please don't take these changes out on the virgin check in staff

I am one of them

No one should be taking it out on staff about these changes - they are system changes, not something that staff like you are responsible for. Of course, the company have employed you into the front lines for precisely the reason that you are the shock buffer between the potentially displeased consumer and the suits in white (and maybe purple) board rooms.

When a customer grouses about a cut in benefits - and they may even use the words "you guys" etc. etc. - notwithstanding their misdirected comments, they are passing that to you as a criticism of the company's decision, with the view that you will pass that onto higher authority. I've heard rumours that such feedback is often ignored from frontline staff and instead is only given proper "credence" if it comes from feedback channels suited for customer use, e.g. the online form on the VA website (or, an email sent directly to John Borghetti himself).

Separating a criticism of the company from one against you when you're taking the full verbal brunt from the customer can be tough, and not quite fair in a way. I'd like to hope that no respecting flyer truly is having a go at you in the firm belief that it is your fault, or they are doing so in order to extract (extort) a certain form of gain.

As long as staff are doing the best they can to offer the best service to their customers, there is no reason to grouse at the frontline staff.

 

[medhead]

I'm not moving to the roo.....I'm moving to whichever carrier suits me best at the time. No loyalty, because that's exactly what VA is asking of us.

Good luck with the future, wear your tin hat and keep positive. BTW, pass your message about providing best possible service on to the cabin staff as their low morale and blantant lack of service (not all, but many) are a big part of the problem.

totally agree. I've had one bad experience with check in staff. Pretty sure they were being completely petty. But in the air the service is poor 83% of the time when in economy. In Business different story - just about always good service. Needless to say, in air service is what I experience for at least an hour every flight, compared to 3 minutes of check in staff once every 6 months.

 

[N860CR]

even pax with flexis and no status at all can fly forward at the moment

ps ...please don't take these changes out on the virgin check in staff

I am one of them

Just to clarify, are you a VA employed staff member at a major port or at a contracted regional one?

 

[Cult of one]

I decided to lower my status with VA earlier this year, I am a WP at the moment and have enough status points and flights to requalify for Gold and will keep it that way. Will build The red roo up as well for a foot in both camps.

Fly ahead was my second favourite perk after the lounge, nothing like a hard weeks work away somewhere and you manage to worm out of a Friday afternoon meeting, sprint to the airport and get on an early flight

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm going the glass half full option...... Remember all.........custom is a commodity. Either they want your business or they don't. You can't really whine when they try it on...........but you can let them know in no uncertain terms that you're not playing their silly game! Choice is ours!

I think you should give QF a go dependent on your flying patterns as for me there is night and day between the treatment of QF Plats (and P1s) and VA Plats.
The VA Plat experience seems to consist of priority boarding and a "Welcome back Princess Fiona" and stop abruptly there.

That's one of the big differences between the two IME.

So further down the track at "crunching the numbers" and debating options, I'm now aware of a QF flight that I'd failed to realise existed before VA started this latest round of shafting.

The QF sector is marginally dearer, but the times far better suit me which means I can still fly CNS-BNE and then catch the train home (I had to hire a car with VA as they landed 5min after the last train departed). That means I can pay QF $31 more than I'd pay VA but I'd save about $100 by catching the train rather than hiring a one way rental (with fuel and toll) and I'd get home a 1/2 hour earlier (which given I start that day at 3.15am, that will mean a great deal). It also means I don't have the hassle of returning the hire car the next day, nor do I have the worry of falling asleep at the wheel....

Similarly, I can pay QF $4 more than I'd pay JQ, but I'd save $200 on a nights accommodation in CNS plus the taxi fare each way ($149 + $25 x 2).

All these scenarios are based around flex fares with similar or equal SCs and points and from PF and other comments, the QF experience is likely better than VA or JQ. Seems my glass is getter fuller by the moment! (VA's glass is down to the dregs)

I must remember to send JB a thank-you card!

 

[Jack_OC]

Fly Ahead is a FF benefit which allows you to fly on an earlier flight on the same day (on the condition that you are hand luggage only and a seat is available on the new flight). (What the underlined phrase means is up for interpretation).

Actually, according to the T&Cs, it's not just subject to a seat being available, it's subject to availability of "the same fare class as originally purchased or lower" on the new flights. I don't think that is open for interpretation, it's just that staff have not generally enforced this rule. In fact, IME they haven't enforced the other conditions either. For example, I have used Fly Ahead when I had checked baggage with no issues - including on one occasion when I had actually already checked the bag in (tagged for my original flight), but then in the Lounge the agent proactively suggested moving me to the earlier flight and said it was no problem to get the bag re-tagged. I also managed to get a colleague the same benefit even though she wasn't on the same booking as me. Just more examples of Lounge staff allowing Fly Ahead much more liberally than outlined in the T&Cs, but now they're going to the other extreme and getting rid of it altogether on cheap fares. All a bit strange really - as others have said, if they felt this benefit was being overused/abused, surely the starting point should have been to just enforce the existing T&Cs?

 

[Marty_]

Every time I've used fly ahead it has been with checked bags. They never said a thing.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I often find my thinking about an issue changes after a few days, even when I haven't been thinking about the issue at all.
I don't think any of these changes actually have anything to do with the benefits themselves.
I don't think VA really cares about use or abuse of fly ahead. If they did they would enforce the existing rules.
Nor do I think they really care about charging for seat selection or which bums end up on which seats.

Seems likely they were selling too many saver fares and not enough flexi fares.
So they have desperately clutched at anything to create more product distinction between savers and flexis.
Or whatever they are calling them now.

 

[Milefest]

So basically they're reintroducing a more restricted version of Saver Lite (Getaway), everything else stays generally the same. Although, they're probably going to increase the cost of the Savers (Elevate) with the justification that pax now have the option to select the cheaper fare.

 

[Jack_OC]

So basically they're reintroducing a more restricted version of Saver Lite (Getaway), everything else stays generally the same. Although, they're probably going to increase the cost of the Savers (Elevate) with the justification that pax now have the option to select the cheaper fare.

Except Saver Lite didn't include checked bags, which funnily enough gave some of us a valid reason (per work policy) to select the more expensive fare - at least some of the time. Also, dealing with checked bags clearly does have a real cost associated with it, so the distinctions and price differences between the old Saver Lite and Saver were perfectly logical and reasonable. Conversely, the differences between the new cheapest and middle fare classes are all "soft" benefits that many employers will simply not pay for, and as you say, probably don't cost VA anything, so they make no sense IMHO.

I think you're probably right that the aim is to "encourage" people to select higher fares, but I don't think it has been properly thought through, as a lot of people travelling with work just won't have the option to select "Elevate" fares, and many leisure travellers won't be willing to. If they had reintroduced the distinction of checked luggage or not (which would be consistent with a lot of other airlines), I think many leisure travellers would have paid for the mid level fare, as holiday makers tend to have more luggage.