New VA Fare Structure

[UP4014]

If you look around the world, at least outside of Asia, what Virgin is moving to is not very different from most carriers do these days for short haul and domestic flights. Whether it is BA, AF, KL or LH in Europe, or AC in Canada or the big three in US, or NZ domestic/trans tasman, LCC modus operandi seems to be the standard these days for anything other than international medium-long haul, and "special" markets (like NYC-California).

Makes you wonder how long QF will hold out for, but perhaps their strategic deployment of JQ early on has buffered them and successfully segmented the market in a way that has been difficult for other legacy carriers elsewhere.

That could be right, QF didn't have to drop it's standards just drop a flight here and there to be picked up by Jetstar. Successful separation of the types of passengers.

Trouble for Virgin now is it seemsto fiddle around and will likely do so again, then it will be perceived as always fiddling around.

Matt

 

[awkwardpaws]

I had a generic moan about this on Twitter, and QF replied to it within a few hours saying they don't status match but they might be able to 'make an arrangement that can help out', and asked me to DM my number so they could call me.

I'm assuming it's not much, but QF seem to be actively responding to this announcement a lot more than VA are.

I bet the guys over at QF are loving it!

grubbidok keep us posted on what QF is offering you!

 

[eastwest101]

Not surprising to hear that the QF social media team are all over this discontent from the recent VA enhancements. Since VA don't seem to have much of a social media presence, and can't seem to find the time/money to monitor forums such as this, then I imagine the negative feedback will come as a tremenous surprise to management in Virgin Australia in the future, maybe the surprise is in store for them when the next set of traffic and yield stats come out.

I would expect that Borghetti is back on Alan Joyce's Christmas card list after this effort, but the Qantas group should be careful about complacency as well, sure they did some nice accounting trickery to bump up their results in the near term but Qantas & Jetstar still have their own massive issues as well, and if their main domestic competitor is struggling then that doesn't bode well for competitive tension in the airfare market. We can even see that complacency creeping into Jetstar with Jane Hrdlicka saying that they don't even consider other airlines as "the competition" anymore - which is very dangerous thinking indeed if Tiger continue to improve.

Obviously VA are getting desperate for some revenue, but after buying Tiger, then not rebranding it, but spending the money to generally fix it up, these raft of changes to the VA fare structure comes as a curious move to "dis-enhance" or attempt to monetise some of the status benefits that higher tier VA flyers were getting for free and take VA further down the path of a LCC (where they actually came from in the first place ) but now the combined group actually do own a true LCC so a weird decision to reverse course from the previous attempts to try and compete with Qantas on service levels and higher yield customers.

I guess we will see what fares look like in the few coming months and see how it works out for them. Lets hope they can continue to do priority boarding properly as its one of the few things we can put on the positive side of the ledger for the VA/Velocity camp.

 

[grubbidok]

I would expect that Borghetti is back on Alan Joyce's Christmas card list after this effort

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... and I used to think all that talk of JB being a QF sleeper agent was just nutty conspiracy theory

 

[Marty_]

I am interested to note the earlier observation that this is merely VA adopting the trends of other airlines.

How does this sort of system work in the marketplace? I find it utterly confusing. Like they are trying to be too many things all at once. The names of the fares have no sense or meaning, and the differences between them are complex enough for the average person to simply glaze over. It creates a further impression of "what you see is not what you get" - ie a fare will be quoted at the absolute base level, which excludes all sorts of benefits, meaning you have to pay more to get what you really want. This absolutely irks customers across industries where they make a habit of this - car hire, for example. When there is a competitor offering a straightforward system, surely that competitor stands to benefit?

If the base fare is cheaper than what they offer now, I don't mind so much because I'll just make a habit of choosing the middle fare. If it's more expensive, then I'll be moving.

 

[UP4014]

I doubt they plane to make it cheaper......

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I am interested to note the earlier observation that this is merely VA adopting the trends of other airlines.

How does this sort of system work in the marketplace? I find it utterly confusing. Like they are trying to be too many things all at once. The names of the fares have no sense or meaning, and the differences between them are complex enough for the average person to simply glaze over. It creates a further impression of "what you see is not what you get" - ie a fare will be quoted at the absolute base level, which excludes all sorts of benefits, meaning you have to pay more to get what you really want. This absolutely irks customers across industries where they make a habit of this - car hire, for example. When there is a competitor offering a straightforward system, surely that competitor stands to benefit?

If the base fare is cheaper than what they offer now, I don't mind so much because I'll just make a habit of choosing the middle fare. If it's more expensive, then I'll be moving.

The booking page might well look like the old QF ones which showed multiple Y buckets before it was enhanced.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

... and I used to think all that talk of JB being a QF sleeper agent was just nutty conspiracy theory

I think JB did have a good go at this, but has been stymied by the purse string holders. This rot started a long time ago when they happily ostracised their then current loyal low cost, low needs basic kind of flyer whilst offering shiney status cards to all that wanted them......for free. Some of us warned of the consequences and now look. They don't want the shiney card holders, they seem to now want the basic flyer back again. What a pack of clowns.

When JB declared the game change plan to be complete, blind Freddie could see it was no where near complete. They simply ran out of cash and bullcrapping to your clients is never a good idea. So now it's baby out with the bath water time and let's see how it pans out for them. I'm guessing not well. For all those that argue you cannot compare VA to JQ, I respectfully disagree. If you compare cheap with cheap, JQ has it all over them. If you compare flexi with max then the JQ product is remarkably comparable. I can have JQ row 1 with a muffin (a big muffin) and coffee for the same (near as) fare as VA (used to) give me row 3 with a coffee and crumb. If your lucky enough to get J on JQ then it's a lot cheaper than VA but VA gives a semi-decent meal, but the hard product on both are very comparable. VA has an edge with priority everything which you cannot get on JQ and lounges are comparable provided one has status on the respective airline. Va was more polished, but VA in-flight service has been running down hill (some might suggest over a cliff) for some time and these new changes are unlikely to do anything toward boosting morale of the crew or service levels.

 

[UP4014]

I think the changes aren't about boosting morale or service, it's about the money.

Matt

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I think the changes aren't about boosting morale or service, it's about the money.

Matt

The point I was making is that VA have lost the edge they had over JQ with regard to a polished in-flight experience.

 

[williamsf1]

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... and I used to think all that talk of JB being a QF sleeper agent was just nutty conspiracy theory

Well AJ lives across the road from the Velocity HO .... may be he has binoculars looking in

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

I think JB did have a good go at this, but has been stymied by the purse string holders. This rot started a long time ago when they happily ostracised their then current loyal low cost, low needs basic kind of flyer whilst offering shiney status cards to all that wanted them......for free. Some of us warned of the consequences and now look. They don't want the shiney card holders, they seem to now want the basic flyer back again. What a pack of clowns.

When JB declared the game change plan to be complete, blind Freddie could see it was no where near complete. They simply ran out of cash and bullcrapping to your clients is never a good idea. So now it's baby out with the bath water time and let's see how it pans out for them. I'm guessing not well. For all those that argue you cannot compare VA to JQ, I respectfully disagree. If you compare cheap with cheap, JQ has it all over them. If you compare flexi with max then the JQ product is remarkably comparable. I can have JQ row 1 with a muffin (a big muffin) and coffee for the same (near as) fare as VA (used to) give me row 3 with a coffee and crumb. If your lucky enough to get J on JQ then it's a lot cheaper than VA but VA gives a semi-decent meal, but the hard product on both are very comparable. VA has an edge with priority everything which you cannot get on JQ and lounges are comparable provided one has status on the respective airline. Va was more polished, but VA in-flight service has been running down hill (some might suggest over a cliff) for some time and these new changes are unlikely to do anything toward boosting morale of the crew or service levels.

Excellent points made swanning_it .

I too have found at least domestically in Y, VA which is supposedly a Full service carrier to be a striking resemblance to JQ for onboard product ( both hard and soft product) at a substantially inflated price than compared to JQ.

I acknowledge that VA still has a few remaining points of difference against comparing to other LCC's such as JQ & TT such as priority boarding, and in the case of MEL utilising T3 over the marathon effort that is Required for T4 that JQ utilises.

But Without being substantially cheaper than the Red Roo and still quite expensive when priced against the LCC's , VA really offer a product that is overpriced considering a very mediocre onboard Y product and experience IMHO.

The recent changes to fares that alienate those who are loyal to VA who are price conscious and looking for the best value have every right to feel that VA are ignoring their needs.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

I like your analysis, Cool Cat Phil!

VA has really got me wondering whether as a fortnightly traveller on saver fares, I was actually costing them money or at least not earning them anywhere near what they hoped to earn from their WPs. These changes seem to indicate as such given how they target WP benefits but I can't see it will make people like me more profitable for them: I'm now looking at my flying more rationally and all my options include less VA flying.

 

[Boof1]

Somehow VA think that this clarification makes things better: Virgin Australia seat selection fee Platinum Gold frequent flyers - Australian Business Traveller

Sure it's handy to know you are sitting forward of the wing, not so good that you are stuck in Row 5 in the middle seat and can't get a window or aisle because your travel policy is BFOD!

Funny thing is that earlier in the year I had to take a couple of JQ flights and it got me thinking that it wasn't so bad. The fare, seat selection charge, plus the muffin and cup of tea deal was all less than half what I would have normally paid on VA, and the muffin was a full size instead of those thumb like things they hand out in VA Y!

 

[Pleb Status]

Sure it's handy to know you are sitting forward of the wing, not so good that you are stuck in Row 5 in the middle seat and can't get a window or aisle because your travel policy is BFOD!

If your seat selection is important and you have been booked in the cheapest fare class, you will be able to pay the fee and you can select a seat of your choice. You will only risk a middle seat if you choose to take that risk.

Anything above the cheapest fare class is business as usual....

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I've been out of the loop for a long long long time, but didn't Virgin buy Tiger (to compete with JQ?) ???

So that frees up Virgin to compete with QF?

Anyways, recently flew this for work;
BNE-MEL - Virgin
MEL-BNE - QF

QF was miles in front

This new fare structure is very confusing. KISS comes to mind (but this is the airline industry we are talking about)......

The new company I soon start for has a VA travel policy. Bugger me...why couldn't it have been QF?

 

[Boof1]

If your seat selection is important and you have been booked in the cheapest fare class, you will be able to pay the fee and you can select a seat of your choice. You will only risk a middle seat if you choose to take that risk.

Anything above the cheapest fare class is business as usual....

Yep, you are spot on, but the point is you shouldn't have to pay for this as a status pax (or any pax for that matter!) on what is supposed to be a full service carrier. By not quoting my full post some of the context has been missed. Given my experience on JQ, I'm struggling to get why with these changes even those with status won't start to look elsewhere move away from VA.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Anything above the cheapest fare class is business as usual....

Come on. Have you read any of the previous posts? Quite apart from the probable loss of complementary row 3, loss of luggage allowance and potential loss of complementary fly ahead, I'm wondering how you are able to predict "business as usual" when VA are yet to release all the details on fares and fees. Velocity are also yet to release details on SC earn on these new fare bundles and also whether Velocity will use this change as a golden opportunity to reduce status benefits further (4 x plat comp upgrades as an example).

Calling "business as usual" is your prerogative, but I can't understand how anyone can believe it at this juncture.

 

[serfty]

Yes you can. JQ is cheaper than VA and VA treat me like cough. Can I do worse with JQ and paying less?

It seems you are never going to stop blaming VA for your own mistake. With that, many of the disparaging comments you have made in this thread and elsewhere specifically regarding VA I really put little credence to.

I'm pretty sure the transpacific fare you paid was much cheaper than any such would be on Jetstar, even just with HNL.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

It seems you are never going to stop blaming VA for your own mistake. With that, many of the disparaging comments you have made in this thread and elsewhere specifically regarding VA I really put little credence to. ...

JohnK loathed JQ but now he seems so keen. I can't keep up