New VA Fare Structure

[JohnK]

I'm not sure anyone is specifically blaming you John. All airlines get it wrong on occasions but in my experience your new best friend JetStar do it a lot worse than Virgin and their service recovery is not just poor but near non existent and that is certainly much worse than that of Virgin.

I know that straitman.

JQ are cheap. Didn't say I will fly them but will consider them when Qantas is expensive. The saying you get what you pay for comes to mind. Same with Tiger.

VA charge almost as much as QF. Sometimes more. It is not acceptable to be charging status passengers to select a seat on the cheapest fares. The zone at the front has no meaning to me. I would rather be in an aisle seat in row 29 than a middle seat in row 3.

Also the only full service airlines I know that charge for seat selection are BA and MH and I try to avoid them where possible. VA are not in the same category as those two anyway.

 

[Mattg]

Also the only full service airlines I know that charge for seat selection are BA and MH and I try to avoid them where possible. VA are not in the same category as those two anyway.

Air New Zealand charges for seat selection on their cheapest fares. But then, it could be argued they aren't really "full service" either.

On that note, it appears VA is going down a very similar path to NZ with these changes. However, NZ can get away with it as their only competition on domestic routes is Jetstar. Virgin don't have that luxury...

 

[bcworld]

I would rather be in an aisle seat in row 29 than a middle seat in row 3.

Agreed! I was a VA Plat at one time and can't fathom the fascination with row 3. I get there's some additional legroom, but likelihood of a vacant seat next to you is much less than up the back, as I'm sure someone out there thinks landing 3B or 3E is a bonus! Heaven forbid you over indulged in the lounge and need to trudge all the way to the back to use the toilet! I find trolley service on VA is incredibly slow these days and the aisle will be blocked with trolleys for much of the flight. Recently did MEL-OOL with no turbulence or use of the seatbelt sign in cruise...was only just being served a ration of water and reconstituted crunchy things on descent into OOL!

 

[Jack_OC]

Agreed! I was a VA Plat at one time and can't fathom the fascination with row 3. I get there's some additional legroom, but likelihood of a vacant seat next to you is much less than up the back, as I'm sure someone out there thinks landing 3B or 3E is a bonus!

I'm guessing you're not particularly tall?! The extra legroom in row 3 is a massive bonus for me. However, we are definitely on the same page when it comes to rows 4, 5 and 6 - those rows offer no legroom advantage over any other row, so I would take any aisle seat ahead of a middle seat in those rows.

 

[NZflygirl]

Air New Zealand charges for seat selection on their cheapest fares. But then, it could be argued they aren't really "full service" either.

Are you talking about non status pax having to pay for seats on NZ?

VA are going down their own path I think. I don't think the carriers are on the same page - hence NZs departure.
And you're right, given you have QF in your backyard this really isn't a good move. At the same time they must be desperate to stay a float to be making this move so - I guess whether you support them or not through a tough time really depends on how much you either hate QF or actually value VA as an airline/FFP. Although I think this is a coughpy move and there is obviously a lot of back lash I'm not actually sure it will affect my flying with VA. I think I might just see how it goes. I already have a cheap mentality (generally).

For me I think if it's $5 to seat select then I may pay for it as I'm quite happy with any window seat especially with rear boarding (although I've seen some people see the stairs and go "oh hell no!" and enter through the front!). If it's $10 - I'm not sure. Otherwise if I'm feeling budget I'll jump on T-48hr? to choose and will get a feel for how the game is going over a period of time. I'll probably seat select for east coast Perth flights but not 1-2hrs.

 

[medhead]

Oh I don't deny it, it's superbly hyperbolic but it is true.
A VA plat in discount Y gets nothing except lounge access, row 3 and fly ahead and now they won't get either of the last two.

Which is why I dropped to gold, and soon to go to silver. But then I generally save at least 25% over qantas when I fly with VA. That's not insignificant.

 

[eastwest101]

I wonder what happened to the previous person whom was doing this job, or is it a new position?


Resource Analyst



Virgin Australiahttps://www.linkedin.com/company/virgin-australia/careers?trk=job_view_topcard_company_name

Queensland Metro





Job description

Are you the resource modelling analysis genius we are looking for?

You will be a searcher of information

This is not a sit behind your desk type job where you are waiting for suggestions to come to you! You will be out and about talking to your operations stakeholders and proactively identifying and then analysing improvement opportunities.

You will be curious and a communicator

• You won't let roadblocks stop you but focus on "What if we do this? and How can we improve our business?".
• You will model potential scenarios and recommend solutions relating to Crew Resource Management that supports strategic and improvement initiatives, and
• Make recommendations on how these may affect the resourcing of our flight and cabin crew in plain English backed by the data.

Aviation is like no other industry so your analysis should also be based on being able to show how you have factored in how regulatory constraints (CASA); changes to Enterprise Bargaining Agreements (EBAs); or introducing new aircraft and decommissioning aircraft, or how new destinations will impact our crew resource management so Management can make sound business decisions.

Along with the above attributes and experience we would expect that you would have –

• Proven experience and expertise in analysing, forecasting and reporting productivity improvement and strategic change initiatives;
• A high level of understanding of resource/manpower planning processes, theories and methodologies;
• Knowledge of aircrew resource management systems (Sabre aircrews) and optimisation systems(esp. Kronos Altitude Pairing & PBS) or similar;
• Experience in cost impact analysis; and
• Excel wizardry skills.

If you want to work for Australia's most attractive employer apply now.

Advertised:Aug 08 2016 E. Australia Standard Time
Application close:Aug 15 2016 E. Australia Standard Time










My only addition to that would be: And then your suggestions will be ignored if it means spending more money.....

The job seems to be more related to management of crew hours/positioning and improving rosters which seems to have been a bit of a problem for VA for a while...

 

[Ausbt]

I reckon J fares are going up. Just booked a SYD-MEL-SYD (in Y) for late September and during the process noted J fares for SYD-MEL were $750 with one particular time, I think a 9am flight hitting $1,100. That's a big spend for 1.25 hours on a 737. Locked in Row 3 on both legs.

 

[Happy Dude]

This is ridiculous. Even airberlin allow free seat selection, including for the XL seats, for their Gold and Platinum members.

So even on Elevate and Freedom, I have to pay just to select a specific seat prior to T-48, and have to pay more for Row 3, even after T-48, even if I'm on the most expensive Y fare. VA have lost the plot.

That is my interpretation. The difference is now anyone, regardless of fare or status, can pay prior to T-48 to get a forward seat. SG/WP will be automatically allocated a forward seat (assuming that's their seating preference) but need to pay if they want a specific seat. Jack3193 and Pleb Status see it differently and are suggesting that they pay only if they're on the lowest fare class (getaway). I hope I'm wrong but the Ausbt article seemed clear enough. Everyone's waiting to see if Row 3 is Space+. It will be, so being asked to pay for 4C/D is a bridge too far the WPs.

 

[Mattg]

Are you talking about non status pax having to pay for seats on NZ?

As far as I'm aware Silver and non-status passengers have to pay. The NZ website says that Gold and Elite members get free seat selection on "Trans-Tasman and Pacific island" flights - doesn't that mean you still have to pay for domestic?

 

[kevrosmith]

Well, instead of wondering, I got on the phone to Accelerate to clarify some questions, seeing as they were the ones who provided the advance information thus far.

Some interesting revelations, though some things are still subject to be clarified, and sometimes you can only hope that the specific implication of each item is understood and addressed completely. I was asking purely from the Domestic perspective, so info may be different for the other categories.

* Elevate fares will have no change fee for changes 30 days prior to departure and $50 fee after that to up to departure (down from the current $80 change fee)
* Cancellation of Elevate fares will be to Travel Bank only (no refund to original payment method) with $50 fee, and can be up until departure time (removing the previous restriction of mid-night the day before flight... apparently that was a restriction..?)
* No fee for cancellation to Travel Bank of Freedom fares. Cancellation of Freedom fare after No Show has to be within 90 days of departure date to receive 75% of value of the fare.
* Couldn't provide an indication if Freedom L fares would be at the same/similar price point to current Flexi L fares (as an example)
* Couldn't yet provide the cost of Space+ seat selection for each fare class
* However, the biggest I am interested in is that Row 3 on B737 and E190 would not be classed as Space+ and Platinums will still be able to select without a fee on Elevate and Freedom fares at time of booking. The agent had to clarify this one with multiple departments and the message at the moment was that this was still being looked at overall but everything points toward the current Platinum benefit would remain. The agent mentioned that Space+ appeared to be the Exit Row seats only, as is the current arrangement for charging more for Exit row seats.
* Seat selections on bookings made prior to 7 Sept for flights after this date should hold.
* Changes for VA's Booking fees will be announced in the next fortnight (have to be in place before 1st September).

Some positive changes there (e.g. reduction in change fees for Elevate) and overall, seems like Platinum won't lose the ability to select Row 3 at time of booking, without a fee.

I checked with the agent and was informed that I could share this information publicly.

Fingers crossed this is how it eventuates.

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

Thanks Kevrosmith for bringing some sense into
This issue.

 

[straitman]

VA charge almost as much as QF. Sometimes more. It is not acceptable to be charging status passengers to select a seat on the cheapest fares. The zone at the front has no meaning to me. I would rather be in an aisle seat in row 29 than a middle seat in row 3.

That is why I look at the options.

I am flying BNE-MEL in a two weeks and when I booked a couple of weeks ago the VA fare was 56% of the Qantas fare and it is now 77% of the Qantas fare. When I want to fly from NAD-MEL in December VA don't have a direct flight on the day I want/need and the cheapest offer was for a QF codeshare on FJ booked via the QF web site. It was even cheaper via the QF web site than SkyScanner etc. Also it was 85% of the JQ fare. Normally the cheapest option for this is VA using points and pay.

What's my point :?: That you still need to look at all the options all the time.

 

[Jack_OC]

That is my interpretation. The difference is now anyone, regardless of fare or status, can pay prior to T-48 to get a forward seat. SG/WP will be automatically allocated a forward seat (assuming that's their seating preference) but need to pay if they want a specific seat. Jack3193 and Pleb Status see it differently and are suggesting that they pay only if they're on the lowest fare class (getaway). I hope I'm wrong but the Ausbt article seemed clear enough. Everyone's waiting to see if Row 3 is Space+. It will be, so being asked to pay for 4C/D is a bridge too far the WPs.

I'm just going on what I've read too, but some of what you say is not consistent with the Aus BT articles.

Firstly, Aus BT strongly implies that the fee to select seats in advance applies only to the cheapo "Getaway" fares. It says the seat selection fee "will also apply before check-in opens if you're booked on a Getaway fare on all domestic and some international flights". Ok, so it doesn't explicitly state that the fee won't apply to other domestic fares, but this would be an incredibly odd way of explaining the changes if indeed they apply to all fare types. If that was the case, wouldn't they just say "if you're booked on a domestic flight", without referring to the fare class?

Aus BT also explicitly states that WP's will still have access to Row 3: "However, Platinum and Gold members of the Velocity scheme will continue to be automatically seated in the front of the economy cabin – including the prized Row 3 for Platinums – under the new fare scheme."

Anyway, as I mentioned previously, this is unlikely to be of any use to me.

 

[NZflygirl]

As far as I'm aware Silver and non-status passengers have to pay. The NZ website says that Gold and Elite members get free seat selection on "Trans-Tasman and Pacific island" flights - doesn't that mean you still have to pay for domestic?

I couldn't tell from the original comment so was clarifying but non-status and I think silver have to pay to select seats but for gold, elite and koru you don't have to pay for any seats on the NZ domestic or international network unless its the pink preferred seats and orange exit seats. There are quite a few seats blocked out for FF seating so no need to buy preferred really. You have access to domestic blacked out seats at T-? eg the ones blocked for rejigging at the airport.

I'd be interested to know if Air NZ operated flights will still allow VA status pax eg gold and above to continue seat select without a charge if booked via VA website. Or alternatively would VA tell Air NZ to start charging VA pax so there is no advantage by booking via NZ website. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark that NZ status pax will be charged also if trying to select on a VA domestic flight that Air NZ connects to. Interesting times!

 

[JohnK]

What's my point :?: That you still need to look at all the options all the time.

Agree to a certain extent.

We are all different and have different preferences.

My go to airline is Qantas. I need to travel on specific dates and check airfares. If Qantas is $89 and $99 I buy that airfare in a heart beat. That's obviously the comfort point of SYD-BNE for me. I don't need to see that Virgin is $85 or $95 at the same time. The $4 difference is not worth it. Not sure what's worth it but difference has to be $15-$20.

Where I have an issue is that some weekends Qantas doesn't budge from $155. Sometimes this reduces to $109 or $115 but that is late in the piece. Generally Virgin used to be $135 on these weekends but then airfares started to creep up. This is where I need to get smarter and book JQ or TT in advance and forego the FF points. Still get lounge access with either LCC carrier courtesy of QF/VA status.

Overseas flights is where it gets really difficult. One option is to use points but taxes are ridiculously high. The cheap airfares on CX, MH etc don't earn so then we are back at Qantas. Not really interested in Scoot or Air Asia for long haul.

 

[Jack_OC]

PS, it was suggested earlier on that no other full service airline charges status pax to select seats. Unfortunately, I think I have just found one that does!

I've just booked a short haul flight with Lufthansa, and here's how their structure works:
- Economy Light - carry on only, no advance seat selection unless you pay a fee*, no changes
- Economy Classic - 1 checked bag, advance seat selection for free, changes possible for a fee
- Economy Flex - self explanatory

* the seat selection fee is not cheap: GBP8 for a standard seat, or GBP20 for exit row, per sector - approx $15-$35

There is no mention on the LH website of anyone - even their ultra top tier "HON Circle" members - being able to avoid the seat selection fee with Economy Light. Interestingly though, the first few rows of Y seemed to be blocked out for me - implying that even if non status pax purchase the Classic fare or pay the seat selection fee, they still can't select seats up front. I wonder if that will also be true with VA?

 

[nlagalle]

Don't forget qantas still charges seat selection on sale fares on international.

BA charge for HLO fares I think...

 

[Jack_OC]

Don't forget qantas still charges seat selection on sale fares on international.

Not for pax with status, do they? I thought even QFF Silver gets free seat selection on any QF flight?

 

[Mattg]

Don't forget qantas still charges seat selection on sale fares on international.

Yes, and this is charged to non-status flyers on international flights only. Nobody has to pay to select a seat on domestic flights, and anyone with Silver status or above can select a seat for free on international flights.