Nice wines I have drunk recently - Red or White

[boomy]

Shaw and Smith Pinot masterclass in Brizvegas last night - interesting wines - 3 burgundies, 3 kiwi, and 4 from oz.. and got to meet another AFFer..Sedimental!! very good dinner downstairs at Tartufo after the tasting.

Sounds like an awesome event! Didn't see any info about it anywhere.
Tartufo is fantastic, can't go wrong there.

 

[Sedimental]

Sounds like an awesome event! Didn't see any info about it anywhere.
Tartufo is fantastic, can't go wrong there.

See P219 #2184. Venue changed to Emporium Hotel as Era closed it's doors at the end of March.

IMO best NZ pinot tasted was the Atarangi. Best Oz Yabby Lake Block 2. The Burgundies were good but with prices of $250-300 a bottle they made these look cheap!

Great to meet drross, and mrsdrross too.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Sounds like a great event!

Bindi block 2? Not Block 5? Apart from Paringa Estate single vineyard Pinots, ( and the much cheaper Curly Flat) Block 5's are to die for.

Atarangi are v good. Have you tried a Pisa Range. Fabulous. IMHO one of the best CO wines.

 

[Sedimental]

Sorry The RealTMA, Yabby Lake Block 2, not Bindi!! It's been a long day and an AFD. No wonder the brain is in go slow mode! No:idea: Edit.

Never even heard of the Pisa Range Estate but it seems well credentialed. And I like the Quartz Reef. Is the Black Poplar available in Oz? I'd like to give it a burl.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Sorry The RealTMA, Yabby Lake Block 2, not Bindi!! It's been a long day and an AFD. No wonder the brain is in go slow mode! No:idea: Edit.

Never even heard of the Pisa Range Estate but it seems well credentialed. And I like the Quartz Reef. Is the Black Poplar available in Oz? I'd like to give it a burl.

NP. All's forgiven. Yabby Lakes are also excellent and have several in the cellar. Got a comp bottle from QF F LAX SYD flight diverted to MEL a couple of years ago.

Bindi Block 5 is still a treat for you!

Have drunk several Quartz Reefs but since we buy direct from CO wine company periodically I'm not sure where we obtained them. Do try a Pisa Range if you can find one. Decanter magazine in '13 awarded them best NZ Pinot with 98 score. Or visit them even better if you can. Very small winery with tasting in their kitchen ( as with Mt Edward).

ps. Ata Rangi are martinborough which is very different from CO terroir, but equally excellent Pinot based on Dijon clones smuggled in by NZ customs officer many years ago.

 

[JohnM]

ps. Ata Rangi are martinborough which is very different from CO terroir, but equally excellent Pinot based on Dijon clones smuggled in by NZ customs officer many years ago.

Interesting. Insider knowledge?

Is the Dijon clone predominant throughout Martinborough? Similarly, which clone is predominant in Central Otago?

The question then becomes: does terroir or clone describe the broadly different characteristics of Martinborough vs. Central Otago Pinot Noirs?

 

[Sedimental]

I'm on Bindi's mailing list hence the subliminal confusion. Block 5 is indeed a treat. The Ata Rangi was very cool climate shiraz-like on the nose, in a good way! Lots of white pepper, then savoury/spicy undertones playing with the fruit. The Yabby Lake had real fruit purity, seemless tannins and a lot more grunt! Will be very long lived in my estimation.

 

[JohnM]

I had the other half of the Amisfield RKV (Rocky Knoll Vineyard for those who may be unfamiliar with what RKV means) tonight.

It was certainly B* Good, and will last for many more years. But was it F* Awesome? 'Fraid not. It just didn't have the wow factor. I have one more bottle that I'll leave for at least 3-5 years (I'm now staring down the barrel of some of my wine outlasting me and a bunch of family/friends vultures shamelessly hovering :-|.)

Hopefully it will show up in the pic, but the chunky, heavy bottle had the deepest punt that I think I've ever seen. Frankly, one has to ask the question: is that really necessary?

It's obviously a BS marketing exercise that costs a bomb in $$ and CO[SUB]2[/SUB] - irrespective of your views on the latter. What is the point - apart from pose?

 

[Sedimental]

Puts Madonna's cone bra to shame!

 

[Deleted member]

Those from Buzzs' Adelaide soirée on Sunday will recognise the items in the photo:

View attachment 45898

Delightful - now to sit down and enjoy it.

Just remember some of them are bayside bound

 

[TheRealTMA]

Interesting. Insider knowledge?

Is the Dijon clone predominant throughout Martinborough? Similarly, which clone is predominant in Central Otago?

The question then becomes: does terroir or clone describe the broadly different characteristics of Martinborough vs. Central Otago Pinot Noirs?

I've been fascinated (obsessed some may say) by Pinot clones for many years. For a drinker not winemaker or farmer it's difficult to tie them down. Was very fortunate to have a tutored tasting of 5 individually bottled clones from 2000 vintage at Nautilus in Marlborough some years ago - by the vineyard manager amusingly named 'Brett' . Very difficult to taste the differences casually but after tutoring one gets the idea as different clones touch down on different parts of the palate, hence the often multi-clonal final bottle blend.

Apologies for the ramblings below! Hope it helps.

IMHO (non tutored) the grape clones give the basis of the wine while the terroir fills out and completes the palate and tannin structure with elements from the soil and climate making the terroir actually more important. The 'art' is in choosing the right clones for the specific terroir. This varies by vineyard and many plant different clones in different sections of the same vineyard and with age and experience massale selection as the winery understands the terroir increases in importance.

The main clones from Burgundy are the Dijon clones 115 and 114. New Zealand varies widely. Ata Rangi uses a selection of clones - Abel, Clone 5, 10/5 and Dijon clones where as the main clone in Australia is MV6 (Bindi, Curley Flat, Yabby Lakes vary a bit with MV6 clone, G5V15, 115 clones but Block 2 is all MV6. YUM!)

The development of the Martinborough Pinots is an interesting story. From Ata Rangi (Nicks http://www.nicks.com.au/new-zealand-wine-past-present-future-76.1556/new-zealand-pinot-noir-the-new-burgundy--76.1561)

"In 1982, soon after purchasing the Ata Rangi home block, Clive called Auckland winemaker Malcolm Abel and volunteered to work a vintage. He knew that Malcolm was also chasing premium pinot noir, and the two soon became close friends. Clive returned for a second vintage. Tragically, Malcolm died unexpectedly a year later and the Abel Vineyard itself was ultimately lost to urban sprawl.

But Malcolm had already given Clive some promising pinot cuttings, the offspring of a single vine cutting allegedly taken by a traveller from Burgundy's finest estate, Domaine de la Romanée-Conti. The illegal cutting had been intercepted and confiscated at Auckland airport, where Malcolm, coincidentally, was working as a customs officer in the mid 70's. He immediately understood its significance, and sent it straight to Te Kauwhata, the state-owned viticulture research station of the day. Malcolm waited patiently for the very first cuttings to become available, and duly planted them.

To this day, the Abel Clone, or Gumboot Clone (legend has it the nicked cutting was secreted inside a Kiwi gumboot!) remains at the heart of Ata Rangi Pinot Noir. We love the texture, and length of palate it delivers. Its tannins are substantial, yet are incredibly silky and fine. From our site, it brings dark cherry, and a brooding, savoury feel.

The Pinot Noir vine is genetically very unstable, so there are literally hundreds of naturally occurring variants referred to as clones. Premium pinot needs the complexity that a range of these clones brings. We have over a dozen planted, with Clone 5/ Pomard also considered very valuable, giving the wine a solid mid-palate structure. It may not have the length of Abel, but brings wonderfully vibrant, aromatic fruit. The much feted Dijon Clones, selected by the research unit at Dijon University in the late 80's, are less textural but have more front palate weight, and beautifully perfumed high notes"."

Further info and stories on the particular clone called “Abel,” which also has several synonyms, “Gumboot,” “DRC” and “Ata Rangi.” Attack of the Clones - The Wandering Palate

Central Otago is quite varied and has a very wide range of terroir and hence uses a wider variety of clones and Sélection massale according to what proves to be the best for the particular vineyard (or part of) terroir. For example "At Misha’s Vineyard we grow UCD 4, 5, 6, Dijon clones 114, 115, 667, 777 and Abel (a clone that is unique to New Zealand that is also originally from Burgundy). http://www.mishasvineyard.com/explore/technical-data/our-clonal-selection-decisions/

"The different clones of Pinot Noir at Akarua are important because of their individual desirable characteristics. A brief description of each clone and their common characteristics are given below." http://www.akarua.com/vineyard-winery/vineyard/clones/

Gibbston Valley use a wide range of clones 5, 6, 114, 115, 667, 777 and different labels and single vineyard bottlings use a variety of selections.

Another interesting comparison of clones Cross-Comparison of Pinot Noir Clones – Christy Canterbury

Phew!

Might have to have a Bindi for lunch now!

 

[burmans]

Another great Kiwi story!

 

[JohnM]

I've been fascinated (obsessed some may say) by Pinot clones for many years. For a drinker not winemaker or farmer it's difficult to tie them down. Was very fortunate to have a tutored tasting of 5 individually bottled clones from 2000 vintage at Nautilus in Marlborough some years ago - by the vineyard manager amusingly named 'Brett' . Very difficult to taste the differences casually but after tutoring one gets the idea as different clones touch down on different parts of the palate, hence the often multi-clonal final bottle blend.

Apologies for the ramblings below! Hope it helps.

IMHO (non tutored) the grape clones give the basis of the wine while the terroir fills out and completes the palate and tannin structure with elements from the soil and climate making the terroir actually more important. The 'art' is in choosing the right clones for the specific terroir. This varies by vineyard and many plant different clones in different sections of the same vineyard and with age and experience massale selection as the winery understands the terroir increases in importance.

The main clones from Burgundy are the Dijon clones 115 and 114. New Zealand varies widely. Ata Rangi uses a selection of clones - Abel, Clone 5, 10/5 and Dijon clones where as the main clone in Australia is MV6 (Bindi, Curley Flat, Yabby Lakes vary a bit with MV6 clone, G5V15, 115 clones but Block 2 is all MV6. YUM!)

The development of the Martinborough Pinots is an interesting story. From Ata Rangi (Nicks http://www.nicks.com.au/new-zealand-wine-past-present-future-76.1556/new-zealand-pinot-noir-the-new-burgundy--76.1561)

"In 1982, soon after purchasing the Ata Rangi home block, Clive called Auckland winemaker Malcolm Abel and volunteered to work a vintage. He knew that Malcolm was also chasing premium pinot noir, and the two soon became close friends. Clive returned for a second vintage. Tragically, Malcolm died unexpectedly a year later and the Abel Vineyard itself was ultimately lost to urban sprawl.

But Malcolm had already given Clive some promising pinot cuttings, the offspring of a single vine cutting allegedly taken by a traveller from Burgundy's finest estate, Domaine de la Romanée-Conti. The illegal cutting had been intercepted and confiscated at Auckland airport, where Malcolm, coincidentally, was working as a customs officer in the mid 70's. He immediately understood its significance, and sent it straight to Te Kauwhata, the state-owned viticulture research station of the day. Malcolm waited patiently for the very first cuttings to become available, and duly planted them.

To this day, the Abel Clone, or Gumboot Clone (legend has it the nicked cutting was secreted inside a Kiwi gumboot!) remains at the heart of Ata Rangi Pinot Noir. We love the texture, and length of palate it delivers. Its tannins are substantial, yet are incredibly silky and fine. From our site, it brings dark cherry, and a brooding, savoury feel.

The Pinot Noir vine is genetically very unstable, so there are literally hundreds of naturally occurring variants referred to as clones. Premium pinot needs the complexity that a range of these clones brings. We have over a dozen planted, with Clone 5/ Pomard also considered very valuable, giving the wine a solid mid-palate structure. It may not have the length of Abel, but brings wonderfully vibrant, aromatic fruit. The much feted Dijon Clones, selected by the research unit at Dijon University in the late 80's, are less textural but have more front palate weight, and beautifully perfumed high notes"."

Further info and stories on the particular clone called “Abel,” which also has several synonyms, “Gumboot,” “DRC” and “Ata Rangi.” Attack of the Clones - The Wandering Palate

Central Otago is quite varied and has a very wide range of terroir and hence uses a wider variety of clones and Sélection massale according to what proves to be the best for the particular vineyard (or part of) terroir. For example "At Misha’s Vineyard we grow UCD 4, 5, 6, Dijon clones 114, 115, 667, 777 and Abel (a clone that is unique to New Zealand that is also originally from Burgundy). http://www.mishasvineyard.com/explore/technical-data/our-clonal-selection-decisions/

"The different clones of Pinot Noir at Akarua are important because of their individual desirable characteristics. A brief description of each clone and their common characteristics are given below." http://www.akarua.com/vineyard-winery/vineyard/clones/

Gibbston Valley use a wide range of clones 5, 6, 114, 115, 667, 777 and different labels and single vineyard bottlings use a variety of selections.

Another interesting comparison of clones Cross-Comparison of Pinot Noir Clones – Christy Canterbury

Phew!

Might have to have a Bindi for lunch now!

Fantastic stuff! - Thanks for posting. I'll follow it up from your links.

I've also just learnt what 'massale' means!

 

[UpInTheAir:)]

I've been fascinated (obsessed some may say) by Pinot clones for many years.

<snip>

Phew!

Might have to have a Bindi for lunch now!

Geez... How do you have space in your brain for that much information?? These (and JohnM's) posts show that wine does not damage brain cells
The only thing I can add is I am currently (well not now.. I'm at work.. but at home..) drinking the DM secret pinot Essenze from NZ and after the first glass or two of champagne (as recommended) it is very nice and great value for the price.
There are so many different types of pinots and we are so spoilt in Victoria that I rarely taste those from across the ditch...

Looking forward to our Riesling tasting when I am next in BNE

 

[Daver6]

I had the other half of the Amisfield RKV (Rocky Knoll Vineyard for those who may be unfamiliar with what RKV means) tonight.

It was certainly B* Good, and will last for many more years. But was it F* Awesome? 'Fraid not. It just didn't have the wow factor. I have one more bottle that I'll leave for at least 3-5 years (I'm now staring down the barrel of some of my wine outlasting me and a bunch of family/friends vultures shamelessly hovering :-|.)

Hopefully it will show up in the pic, but the chunky, heavy bottle had the deepest punt that I think I've ever seen. Frankly, one has to ask the question: is that really necessary?

It's obviously a BS marketing exercise that costs a bomb in $$ and CO[SUB]2[/SUB] - irrespective of your views on the latter. What is the point - apart from pose?

View attachment 45967

I wonder if it reduces the amount of wine you need to leave in the bottle when there is a lot of sediment?

The other explanation is it was a stuff up in manufacturing and the bottles were sold off cheaply.

 

[JohnM]

Geez... How do you have space in your brain for that much information?? These (and JohnM's) posts show that wine does not damage brain cells
The only thing I can add is I am currently (well not now.. I'm at work.. but at home..) drinking the DM secret pinot Essenze from NZ and after the first glass or two of champagne (as recommended) it is very nice and great value for the price.
There are so many different types of pinots and we are so spoilt in Victoria that I rarely taste those from across the ditch...

Looking forward to our Riesling tasting when I am next in BNE

I have a sneaking suspicion that if you ask TheRealTMA something about Sangiovese clones he'll be able to give you a good deal of information on that too (a comment that he made on a post of mine about Brunello di Montepulciano a few years back gave a hint of this) .

 

[UpInTheAir:)]

Paging Penegal... when are we having a MEL Pinot tasting/ appreciation night???

 

[UpInTheAir:)]

I have a sneaking suspicion that if you ask TheRealTMA something about Sangiovese clones he'll be able to give you a good deal of information on that too (a comment that he made on a post of mine about Brunello di Montepulciano a few years back gave a hint of this) .

Might need to drink more to understand this kind of wisdom

 

[JohnM]

I wonder if it reduces the amount of wine you need to leave in the bottle when there is a lot of sediment?

The other explanation is it was a stuff up in manufacturing and the bottles were sold off cheaply.

I'm not clear on the history of punts in bottles for still wine (obviously for Champagne they increase the strength). It may well have an historical basis for the better wines as they could be expected to be kept longer and throw sediment.

However, these days heavy, deep punted bottles are much more a sign of 'quality' to extract a higher price I would suggest. They look poncy when flourished by a waiter in a fancy restaurant.

What was extraordinary and unusual about the RKV bottle was just how deep and pointed the punt was. It weighs about 1 kg, which is more than the contents :shock:.

I am dubious about the manufacturing stuff-up hypothesis.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I have a sneaking suspicion that if you ask TheRealTMA something about Sangiovese clones he'll be able to give you a good deal of information on that too (a comment that he made on a post of mine about Brunello di Montepulciano a few years back gave a hint of this) .

Ah don't get me started on Sangiovese clones! We'd need a new forum!

Note that with Italian Sangiovese though, in the older vineyards given the long history of plantings and local experience, rather than specific clones (as in new vineyards) the historic massale selection of vines that have performed very well in the specific plot seems to become more important. At Boscarelli (Montepulciano) for example, in some cases they have different 'clones' in alternate rows and sometimes in the same row. They don't actually know anymore what they all are. Just that that vine works well in that part of the vineyard. Good source material for university research projects.