Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[sergeyvzn]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Yes that is exactly what I was asking.

Good. Then make sure you monitor the flights for any J seats opening. If you are a subscriber to Expertflyer or Awardnexus you can set up a seat alert but these are paid services

 

[Isochronous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Is it true that no routing changes can be made once travel has commenced? I tried to change a CPH-HEL to a CPH-HEL-TLL but apparently that wasn't allowed.

Also my SYD-HKG according to him I wasn't allowed to change to MEL-HKG under the rules despite an earlier post stating that transiting a stopover point is allowed.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Is it true that no routing changes can be made once travel has commenced? I tried to change a CPH-HEL to a CPH-HEL-TLL but apparently that wasn't allowed.

Also my SYD-HKG according to him I wasn't allowed to change to MEL-HKG under the rules despite an earlier post stating that transiting a stopover point is allowed.

Huge difference when you are talking about making changes after you have commenced travel.
This is from QF's T&Cs:

14.5.1 A oneworld Award is a Classic Award Itinerary that includes travel on at least two oneworld Alliance Airlines other than Qantas and does not include any travel on any airline that is not a oneworld Alliance Airline.

14.7.4 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Award after ticketing and prior to commencement of any travel and will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:
(a) change to flight number;
(b) change to date of travel;
(c) change to class of travel;
(d) change to any Segment routing or airline;
(e) change to name (only for Flights with a Qantas (QF) flight number on the ticket that are operated by Qantas); and
(f) request to cancel ticket and re-credit Points. Please note that only Points that would not have expired will be re-credited.
14.7.5 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Award flight before departure of that flight, provided the entire booking contains only Flight Segments that are within Australia, and will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:
(a) change to flight number;
(b) change to date of travel;
(c) change to class of travel; and
(d) change to a direct or indirect Segment routing without a Stopover (provided the origin and destination cities remain unchanged) or airline.
14.7.6 Subject to this clause 14.7, the following changes are permitted to a Classic Award flight before departure of that flight, provided the booking contains one or more Flight Segments that are not within Australia, and the Flight Segment(s) being changed do not include a partner airline that requires a ticket to be reissued for the change. Any such change will incur a Change Fee (see the Fee Schedule) per passenger:
(a) change to flight number; and
(b) change to date of travel.
14.7.7 Changes are not permitted (after any travel has commenced) to any Classic Award for which a paper ticket has been issued.

 

[ozflier]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

My question relates to routing changes to a oneworld award prior to travel commencing.

I am planning a trip to South America next year - dates round september so cannot book yet anyway.

It looks like not all award flights will become available at the one time when i need them.( eg QF releases seats 353 days or so out and LAN more like 330 days plus some airlines do not release seats at that time anyway.

If I made a booking for starters for BNE-SCL-EZE -open jaw here-PTY-LAX-BNE say,when award seats became available and later added side trips eg to Iguazo Falls (EZE-IGR-EZE) and added them to the main itinerary, as long as I paid the change fees , could the new total be counted in the full calculation for the oneworld award ?

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

If I made a booking for starters for BNE-SCL-EZE -open jaw here-PTY-LAX-BNE say,when award seats became available and later added side trips eg to Iguazo Falls (EZE-IGR-EZE) and added them to the main itinerary, as long as I paid the change fees , could the new total be counted in the full calculation for the oneworld award ?

Short answer is "Yes" - i.e. you can add segments anywhere in your itinerary. But be warned that award availability to, and within, Sth America is extremely difficult to procure irrespective of release dates and how diligent you are in checking for them. IME award seats just don't ever seem to open up on some routes even though they should be theoretically available. After many hours of exploring the option of Sth American award travel I have all but given up - the only routes you have a reasonable chance of getting awards for are the ones from Nth America like JFK or MIA to GIG (but even then only in Y) so maybe routing your trip to Sth Am. via the US (both in and out) coupled with some paid separate segments within Sth Am might be an option for you - of course those paid flights would be completely separate to your OW award ticket because you can't combine award and paid segments on a OW award. Maybe others who have actually managed to get awards for this part of the world will add their comments but I'd have a "Plan B" in mind if I were you.

 

[Isochronous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Although I should note the man I spoke to at the Platinum Desk was very helpful. I made 2 date changes (including one seat released by yield) and was not charged any phone service fee or 3.5k points change fee. Is this normal or just very lucky?

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker. I've just got a couple of quick ones as I seem to have trouble figuring out if someone could care to clarify:

- I understand once ticketed, you must complete your trip within the year at the time it was ticketed. I'm planning to do a long term trip that could extend for quite some time (possibly between 8 - 10 months), would that render this type of award fare impossible to book way in advance then? As I would need to book this last minute to ensure this ticket is valid for as long as possible. Not sure if I am misreading something here..

- Could someone direct me to somewhere that shows me how to navigate the British Airways site to show other oneworld member flights? I'm going through the multi-city option, have registered for Avios/Exec Club and can't seem to find anywhere that will help show other flights. As this was recommended given that Qantas doesn't show MH/JAL flights on their site?

Cheers in advance!

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Kantankerous, anat01 produced an excellent overview of searching for oneworld awards. This is the link:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....search-oneworld-award-availability-59412.html

Long duration oneworld award trips do pose particular problems mainly because ideally you would want to add the back-end segments for your trip after the trip had commenced. I think your only option would be to book an entire itinerary before you commenced the trip, with the intention of then changing your back-end segments after commencement. My reading of the T&Cs (see post #1603 above) is that you would be restricted to changes of the date and/or flight number in this scenario i.e. you wouldn't be able to make any changes to airline or route. The obvious risk would be that you have no certainty that you would be able to find awards for these later flights. Clause 14.7.6 of the T&Cs is probably most relevant to you but the bit about "airlines requiring reissuing of tickets" may be problematical. Not having any first hand experience with trips of "8-10 months" duration my understanding may not be completely reliable, in which case hopefully someone else will step up to point out my shortcomings.

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Thanks vertrade for your quick response.

I don't foresee any issues with booking it in just before the commencement of my trip but that may limit (or even extend) my choices on what is available. I guess that's an inherent risk I'll just have to accept. However, I'm not sure what you mean by changing the back-end segments after commencement? If I'm reading correctly, I have no intentions of changing the routing, just change of date in case I enjoy myself too much somewhere and would like to extend my stay. Also, in what circumstances would it require an airline to reissue a ticket?

Other than that, would you foresee any other particular issues?

 

[nickfromeastryde]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

You are going to have to book flights as they become available and then wear the change fee each time you add more flights. Especially the popular routes

8-10 months is tight but you should be able to finalise everything before you leave which should make it slghtly less complicated. At least then you will have the flights in place and are no worse off if you are subsequently unable to amend date

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I was actually hopeful of just getting the itinerary all sorted out prior rather than adding on flights with just changes of dates. Hence, the question regarding when a ticket may need to be reissued? Do you think that's a possible? I believe that avoids having to pay a change fee every time.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I think we are reading it the same way, Kantankerous. Your post wasn't specific as to whether you had definitely decided what flights you would take at the end of the itinerary or whether you maybe had intentions of making up your back-end route/s as you went, so my response was intended to cover both possibilities.

Re reissuing tickets........depends on the airline/s you have in mind - can't imagine it would be an issue with the major airlines but potentially could be with some. On the face of it there doesn't seem to be any good reason why they would require a ticket reissue but the fact it rates a mention in the T&Cs suggests that some circumstances must dictate it.

I suggest your best (least risky) option would be to select your return flights on routes/airlines that generally have good award availability - CX and IB are 2 airlines where availability is usually better than others but obviously I don't know if they service the route/s you have in mind.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I was actually hopeful of just getting the itinerary all sorted out prior rather than adding on flights with just changes of dates. Hence, the question regarding when a ticket may need to be reissued? Do you think that's a possible? I believe that avoids having to pay a change fee every time.

Even a change of date makes you liable for the change fee - obviously the fewer changes the better from a cost point of view.

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Understandable. Appreciate you doing that vetrade. Below is what I had in mind if anyone can foresee a less risky option if a) I am set in stone with this itinerary and b) would only look to change dates for all flights:

Option 1:
SYD - SIN - HKG - NRT - FRA;
LHR - SYD

Flights with QF, BA and JAL

OR

Option 2:
Find own way to Hong Kong via SE Asia
HKG - NRT - FRA
FCO - MAD - LHR - SYD

The idea behind it was to minimise costs of paying for long haul international flights by using the OneWorld Award Fare and then just a matter of exploring each of the regions via cheaper short haul options e.g. HKG (Explore China), FRA (Explore Western Europe and find own way to London), NRT (Explore Korea & Japan). I know I will very likely need to change dates for all of them but just wondering if anyone had any experience with changing last minute?

Cheers!

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Even a change of date makes you liable for the change fee - obviously the fewer changes the better from a cost point of view.

I see.. much trickier then.. I remember seeing 3,500 points, is that right? If not enough points, how much in cash do we need to pay?

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I see.. much trickier then.. I remember seeing 3,500 points, is that right? If not enough points, how much in cash do we need to pay?

If travelling J it's just the 3500 points, but on a Y award it's 3500 points plus $60 IIRC.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Understandable. Appreciate you doing that vetrade. Below is what I had in mind if anyone can foresee a less risky option if a) I am set in stone with this itinerary and b) would only look to change dates for all flights:

Option 1:
SYD - SIN - HKG - NRT - FRA;
LHR - SYD

Flights with QF, BA and JAL

OR

Option 2:
Find own way to Hong Kong via SE Asia
HKG - NRT - FRA
FCO - MAD - LHR - SYD

The idea behind it was to minimise costs of paying for long haul international flights by using the OneWorld Award Fare and then just a matter of exploring each of the regions via cheaper short haul options e.g. HKG (Explore China), FRA (Explore Western Europe and find own way to London), NRT (Explore Korea & Japan). I know I will very likely need to change dates for all of them but just wondering if anyone had any experience with changing last minute? Cheers!

Either of your options seem do-able. Can I suggest that you implement some lateral thinking to your planning? E.g. you can gain a lot of flexibility by combining 2 cities into 1 stopover by paying for a separate flight between them. In your option 2 case you could depart SYD (thereby including SYD - HKG in your award booking) and then combine HKG & NRT or MAD & LHR or even FCO & MAD & LHR into one stopover so that you kept your total number of stopovers to 5. Obviously the shorter the flights between 2 potential cities the cheaper paid fares will be - then you could use your award for the longer, more expensive flights to minimise your cash outlays. As an example we have an upcoming J award where we combined YVR / YYC and JNB / CPT (both cheap flights) so that we could have other stopovers in Paris, Munich and NY - really we're having 7 stopovers!

Another tip - keep in mind that European one way fares are often more expensive than return fares - a lot of people buy a long dated return tickets and never turn up for the return flight. Of course trains are a great alternative to flying in Europe.

Also keep in mind that QF, BA and JL are among the most expensive for taxes and fuel surcharges. Might pay to do some dummy bookings to check out how much these are likely to be for your selected routes and look for alternate carriers on the same or similar routes.

Most people avoid trying to change at the last minute simply because award availability then is so poor.

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Either of your options seem do-able. Can I suggest that you implement some lateral thinking to your planning? E.g. you can gain a lot of flexibility by combining 2 cities into 1 stopover by paying for a separate flight between them. In your option 2 case you could depart SYD (thereby including SYD - HKG in your award booking) and then combine HKG & NRT or MAD & LHR or even FCO & MAD & LHR into one stopover so that you kept your total number of stopovers to 5. Obviously the shorter the flights between 2 potential cities the cheaper paid fares will be - then you could use your award for the longer, more expensive flights to minimise your cash outlays. As an example we have an upcoming J award where we combined YVR / YYC and JNB / CPT (both cheap flights) so that we could have other stopovers in Paris, Munich and NY - really we're having 7 stopovers!

Another tip - keep in mind that European one way fares are often more expensive than return fares - a lot of people buy a long dated return tickets and never turn up for the return flight. Of course trains are a great alternative to flying in Europe.

Also keep in mind that QF, BA and JL are among the most expensive for taxes and fuel surcharges. Might pay to do some dummy bookings to check out how much these are likely to be for your selected routes and look for alternate carriers on the same or similar routes.

Most people avoid trying to change at the last minute simply because award availability then is so poor.

Definitely have considered being more flexible, after all, that was the name of the game for us originally but the lack of availabilities for award fares at the last minute is worrying! :S
However, the reason for removing the SYD - SIN/HKG leg is because I can gain some cheap flights with Scoot (I'm booking Y after all) from SYD to SIN which usually is cheaper than flights such as HKG - NRT a lot of the time. I was planning to go via ground across SE Asia until I reached BKK where I would get a cheap flight to HKG.
Of course I could probably refine this some more and figure which routes are more expensive as sometimes shorter distance doesn't always equate to cheaper fares as the example above.
Agreed that FCO/MAD can probably be combined and then use that for SYD - HKG instead!

We're hoping to cover virtually the following countries in a north westerly direction:

Asia
Singapore
Malaysia
Thailand
Cambodia
Laos
Vietnam
Hong Kong/China (big, I know but I'm Chinese by ethnicity so I would love to do it in depth)
Taiwan
Japan
Korea

Europe
Turkey
Greece
Italy
Romania
Hungary
Austria
Croatia
France
Germany
Poland
Czech Republic
Spain
Portugal
UK
Iceland
Scandinavia

and possibly Egypt somehow..

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Yeah, I guess that just about covers it. Stitching all that together might take as long as the trip!

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Good thing I've got a year to figure it out! Cheers vetrade.