Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[QPProletarian]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Just wondering how it is best to get alerted when the seats become available?

Expert flyer seems to only allow one flight & class per flight alert, but manually you can search for the whole week (+/3 days)

Trying to line up something to cover LHR and MIA from AU as a circle trip in either direction, MIA flights have to be a week between 17/06 and 13/08. Trying to get 3 weeks for LHR as part of it, preferably 27/05 - 18/08

 

[burnt]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Dont forget that the final sector on the O/W redemption booking can be flown out to a MAX of 1 year from the date of the FIRST SECTOR FLIGHT DATE, so it is possible to book a whole itinerary many months out, say 6 months then, if required after flying the first sector, it would be possible to do a date change on other sectors, ensuring that the last date was no more than 1 year after the FIRST FLIGHT ( the booking date is not relevant, except for how far out you can INITIALLY book.

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Dont forget that the final sector on the O/W redemption booking can be flown out to a MAX of 1 year from the date of the FIRST SECTOR FLIGHT DATE, so it is possible to book a whole itinerary many months out, say 6 months then, if required after flying the first sector, it would be possible to do a date change on other sectors, ensuring that the last date was no more than 1 year after the FIRST FLIGHT ( the booking date is not relevant, except for how far out you can INITIALLY book.

Sorry so correct me if I'm wrong then as I just had discussion above you with vetrade that it may be tricky to do a 8 - 10 month long trip booking months ahead as that would limit my travel time.. If I'm reading you correctly, then it is possible to book well ahead (say 6 months) and my ticket is valid one year from the time I take my first sector flight e.g. book today to depart in January 2015 next year, therefore ticket is valid until January 2016 on the exact same date I flew my first flight?

 

[burnt]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Kantankerous, you are 100% correct, you can only book out to 1 year ( plus or minus a bit) but once you start flying, your ticket is VALID up to ONE YEAR from the first flight flown.so for example if you booked today for the first sector on say 20th June 2015, and say another 15 sectors up to say 17th July 2015, once you have flown the first sector you are able to change the DATES of the others, but can not go past 20th June 2016

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Kantankerous, you are 100% correct, you can only book out to 1 year ( plus or minus a bit) but once you start flying, your ticket is VALID up to ONE YEAR from the first flight flown.so for example if you booked today for the first sector on say 20th June 2015, and say another 15 sectors up to say 17th July 2015, once you have flown the first sector you are able to change the DATES of the others, but can not go past 20th June 2016

That's brilliant! Just what I wanted to hear so then to reflect the T&C's, when they term it as one year valid from the time the booking is 'ticketed', your booking is only ticketed when you have taken your first flight? I'm just hoping to be doubly sure because in the past whilst booking through travel agents, they have advised that they need to get the flights ticketed in order to issue me an e-ticket. Is this different when it applies to the OneWorld Award fare?

 

[burnt]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Not sure on that front, but guaranteed that any changes to dates that you make after flying has commenced is always referenced to the date of the first sector flown, ie no more than 1 year from commencement of travel, i think the ticket issue date is another thing altogether.

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Not sure on that front, but guaranteed that any changes to dates that you make after flying has commenced is always referenced to the date of the first sector flown, ie no more than 1 year from commencement of travel, i think the ticket issue date is another thing altogether.

Excellent!
Thanks so much for the clarification.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Kantankerous, from your discussion with Burnt it’s obvious that there was some confusion in your mind regarding the differentiation between booking date vs date of first flight that I didn’t pick up on – and therefore failed to comment on. In retrospect, I should not have assumed that you knew that the 12 month window commenced on the date of your first flight.

Just a word of caution though. There is a significant logistical disconnect between what is theoretically possible and what is achievable in practice so, if you are now thinking of aiming for a time away of close to 12 months, be aware that that’s a high risk strategy which could easily unravel if you don’t have a suitable “fall-back” position.

To explain: to get an award seat on any of the OW airlines which fly the LHR – SYD route (which you listed as your return leg in both your itinerary options) you will need to commit to one of them before your first departure. After that you can only change the date i.e. you will be committed to one of those airlines and a set route & transit city. I’m sure you realise all this by now.

No matter which airline you choose you will find that demand for award seats between LHR and SYD is high so it would be necessary to lock in a return date soon after award seats are released i.e. probably more than 11 months before your intended return date. In practical terms that means you could be confident of being able to change your return date only up to 1 – 2 weeks after your first flight. Sure, it may eventuate that you do find a suitable award flight some time after that but if you count on that happening and it doesn’t you then have very little flexibility date-wise to find an alternative, in which case you could end up finding that you can’t find a flight within the 12 month limit.

Unless you’re a gambler by nature, I’d suggest that your original game plan of an 8-10 month trip is the right approach during the planning stages. Do you really want to have to deal with what flight you can get home when you’re only a week or two into your trip? That's a distraction you might decide you don't need.

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Absolutely agree with you on all counts. To be wholeheartedly honest, I would be very surprised if I push the 8 - 10 month period for long term travel as I would more realistically expect to be on the road for 6 months depending on how quickly my travel funds dry up. I don't really expect to change the dates of my LHR - SYD route to be quite honest but thank you for letting me know of the high demand for these seats. The key would obviously be to be as flexible as possible to avoid disappointment so I am quite open with taking a calculated gamble in the grand scheme of things. I'll get a clearer picture when I start looking into durations spent in each country before finally determining an optimal date to set my final flight back to Sydney. However, if it turns out that I either have to bite the bullet and take the flight I committed to or forced to find my own way home, then so be it. Such is life you can't control everything.

PS - Any other recommended routes from Europe back to Sydney that you think would be more flexible than the LHR - SYD leg?

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Well you do have quite a few options Kantankerous - mainly in regard to your exit city from Europe/UK. The options for the final flight into SYD are a lot less numerous. There's the obvious ones of LHR - SYD via DXB on QF or via DOH on QR. Or you can use a combination of airlines by flying via KUL or HKG and then get a MH or CX flight for the SYD leg. Haven't done it myself but have often read of other AFFers who advocate flying from Europe (CDG, HEL, FRA) on carriers such as Finnair or Air Berlin to somewhere in the Middle East or Asia. Last year we flew home via ATH and AMM and DXB on RJ. So many choices - depends a lot on whether you want to have only one transit city or you're OK with more! Suggest you have a look at the interactive map on the OW website - that'll show you the routes each airline flies. The LHR departure tax is quite hefty and worth avoiding if you can - if you transit through LHR rather than starting your return home from there you don't have to pay the ADT so flying IB from MAD or BCN or from CGD on BA or something similar works well.

 

[deejo77]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

PS - Any other recommended routes from Europe back to Sydney that you think would be more flexible than the LHR - SYD leg?

I have two of our six RTW tickets coming back from Europe - Paris - Amman - Bangkok - Sydney, you can train it from london to Paris - but be aware there is approx 8hr stopover in Amman and 3hrs in Bangkok (this was booked 10 weeks out). Look at Qatar also. but be aware of your MILES direct flights keep the miles down.

 

[Kantankerous]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Well you do have quite a few options Kantankerous - mainly in regard to your exit city from Europe/UK. The options for the final flight into SYD are a lot less numerous. There's the obvious ones of LHR - SYD via DXB on QF or via DOH on QR. Or you can use a combination of airlines by flying via KUL or HKG and then get a MH or CX flight for the SYD leg. Haven't done it myself but have often read of other AFFers who advocate flying from Europe (CDG, HEL, FRA) on carriers such as Finnair or Air Berlin to somewhere in the Middle East or Asia. Last year we flew home via ATH and AMM and DXB on RJ. So many choices - depends a lot on whether you want to have only one transit city or you're OK with more! Suggest you have a look at the interactive map on the OW website - that'll show you the routes each airline flies. The LHR departure tax is quite hefty and worth avoiding if you can - if you transit through LHR rather than starting your return home from there you don't have to pay the ADT so flying IB from MAD or BCN or from CGD on BA or something similar works well.

I was thinking the CDG back to SYD with BA via LHR so that's probably something to work with. My preference would be to make it as direct as possible with minimal stopovers but I'll definitely keep those options in mind! Cheers.

I have two of our six RTW tickets coming back from Europe - Paris - Amman - Bangkok - Sydney, you can train it from london to Paris - but be aware there is approx 8hr stopover in Amman and 3hrs in Bangkok (this was booked 10 weeks out). Look at Qatar also. but be aware of your MILES direct flights keep the miles down.

Circle Mapper will keep that covered. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi All.
The seat release dates for the first batch of sectors of my OW Award 280k Itinerary is approaching, and I'm getting ready to put in a placeholder booking to get the process started. But before I do that I've got 2 points of clarification I need some help with (my apologies if they've already been covered, but I've searched extensively without success):
1. The 3500 points/pax change fee - I'm going to need to make at least 2 batches of changes as more awards seat release dates click over. If I call in and add say 3 sectors in one phone call, does that constitute ONE change or THREE (i.e. change fee is 3500 points or 3500 x 3)?
2. Please refer to the following extract from the book of rules on the QFF website

14.5.4 The following Stopover conditions apply to oneworld Awards:
(a) up to five free Stopovers are permitted;
(b) additional Stopovers are not permitted;
(c) only one Stopover is permitted in any one city in the Itinerary; and
(d) only two Transfers may be taken at any one city in the Itinerary.

My question relates to parts (c) & (d). Under the rules am I allowed to Stop once in (say) HKG and also Transfer twice in HKG in the same Itinerary, OR having once Stopped in HKG am I then only allowed to Transfer through HKG one time?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Rgds,
TOOJ#3

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

TOOJ, you pay the 3500 points per phone call - so if you make 3 or 4 changes during that call you only pay one 3500 pt. fee. FWIW, you only pay if you actually make a change during the call i.e. if you just ring to check availability or make some other enquiry without actually making a change you don't pay anything.

It's my understanding that a stopover is considered a transit as far as 14.5.4 is concerned - so you can have one stopover plus one transit or two transits but not a stopover plus 2 transits.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Thanks Vertrade.

It's my understanding that a stopover is considered a transit as far as 14.5.4 is concerned - so you can have one stopover plus one transit or two transits but not a stopover plus 2 transits.

Is your opinion on the Stopover/Transfer question based on bitter experience or more a reading of the tea leaves?
I'm no lawyer... but looking at the definitions contained in the rules
'Stopover' in relation to:
(a) an Australian domestic Itinerary, means a break of journey at an intermediate point when onward travel does not take place on the same calendar day; and
(b) for all other Itineraries, including those containing a domestic to international connecting flight, means when a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and is not scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival;
'Transfer'[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif] in relation to:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif](a) an Australian domestic Itinerary, means a break of journey at an intermediate point when onward travel takes place on the same calendar day; and[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif](b) for all other Itineraries, including those containing a domestic to international connecting flight, means when a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and [/FONT]is scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif];[/FONT]

it appears to me that the two definitions are mutually exclusive (a Stop is >= 24hr, a Transfer is <24), and so where it says in rule

14.5.4[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif] The following Stopover conditions apply to [/FONT]one[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]world Awards:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif](c) only one Stopover is permitted in any one city in the Itinerary; and [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif](d) only two Transfers may be taken at any one city in the Itinerary.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
it leads me to believe (naively perhaps) that 1 Stop & 2 Transfers are available (given that a Stop can't fit the definition of a Transfer and vice versa).

I'm definitely not trying to have an argument - just trying to clarify the rules...
TOOJ#3

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Definitely can't argue with you TOOJ and I have seen dissenting opinions on AFF regarding the stop-over/transit point but have never read a post on here from anyone who claimed that they had had a stop-over plus 2 transits in the same city. I did ask a QF call centre operator about this in Jan or Feb this year when putting together an early itinerary and the answer I got was that you could only have one transit if you also had a stop-over. I didn't pursue it because it wasn't relevant to the itinerary I settled on. I have received incorrect info from the call centre in the past though, so I can't categorically state that it's "definite".

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

OK. I might call in to the QF Call Centre myself and see if I can argue the toss.
I'll post back with the outcome (in a few days...)
Thanks.

 

[Danger]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I have yet another problem with Qantas and this time it's this oneworld award.

The itinerary so far is:

PER-xDOH-ZAG
ZAG-LHR
LHR-IST
IST-xDOH-JFK
JFK-xHKG-PER

So four stops so far (ZAG, LHR, IST and JFK). I want to add in JFK-xMIA-SJU. There is award space but only in economy. Fine. Suck it up. There's no award space to come back, at anytime that would connect with the existing flight to HKG, so, again, suck it up and pay for a seat SJU-JFK.

Qantas tells me, for a reason I can't understand (and, so far, no agent can point me to the rule) that if I did JFK would count as a stop on the second entry, SJU-JFK, thereby putting me at six stops instead of the maximum five.

Is this correct?

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

OK. I might call in to the QF Call Centre myself and see if I can argue the toss.

Reporting back as promised (but sooner that expected).
I talked to Christine at the Call Centre today and tried to build up a dummy itinerary which included a Stop in HKG as well as two Transfers in HKG. The dummy itinerary failed, but NOT because of the Stop/Transfer question; more on that issue follows later in this post at Issue #2 below.
Despite the itinerary failure I asked Christine whether it was possible to book an itinerary which included a Stop in a City as well as two Transfers in the same City. She said yes without any hesitation or any hedging. I pushed a bit more and said that I'd heard that a Stop in a City would cancel out one of the Transfers, but she said that was not the case, and that you can hit the same City three times in the same Itinerary (but only one of those can be a Stop).
On that basis I'm going to press ahead with trying to build my Itinerary using the 'Triple Hit' method once the booking windows open up sufficiently. I'll report back with results.


Issue #2:
The dummy Itinerary that I was trying to build today was to Start in KUL. That caused the online engine to explode (hence the need to ring in to the Call Centre). The conversation with Christine revealed that although Itineraries CAN begin in Cities outside of Australia, only SOME of those external Cities can be built using the online engine. KUL (of course...) is one of the Cities that won't build in the online engine.
Christine then went on to say that it was OK though, because the Itinerary was still valid, it was just that she'd need to build it manually for me.
So then I asked: "so if the online system won't let me build what is otherwise a valid Itinerary, does that mean that you'll build it for me without charge?"; fully expecting no charge in such a situation. But she said: "no, I'll need to charge you - if I have to manually intervene then I have to charge". I (politely) pushed back a little, but she wouldn't budge a bit, not even to concede that it was unfair.
So, I guess when the time comes to book, I might have to ring in to the Call centre a few times until I strike a sympathetic operator...
Rant ends.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I have yet another problem with Qantas and this time it's this oneworld award.

The itinerary so far is:

PER-xDOH-ZAG
ZAG-LHR
LHR-IST
IST-xDOH-JFK
JFK-xHKG-PER

So four stops so far (ZAG, LHR, IST and JFK). I want to add in JFK-xMIA-SJU. There is award space but only in economy. Fine. Suck it up. There's no award space to come back, at anytime that would connect with the existing flight to HKG, so, again, suck it up and pay for a seat SJU-JFK.

Qantas tells me, for a reason I can't understand (and, so far, no agent can point me to the rule) that if I did JFK would count as a stop on the second entry, SJU-JFK, thereby putting me at six stops instead of the maximum five.

Is this correct?

On face value there shouldn't be a problem with you transiting through JFK on the return from SJU but your problem might be that because you intend to buy the SJU - JFK ticket separately, from your award ticket point of view, you have no arrival time in JFK for the QF system to reference in regard to your departure time to HKG. Therefore maybe it can't recognise that you are within the less than 24 hr transit time requirement. If you could get a Y ticket back to JFK via MIA (for both legs preferably - but either would do) your problem might be solved because then there would be a reference time on your award booking for your arrival in NY to have it designated only a transit.