Oneworld separate ticket interline changes

[madrooster]

BA has also released their changed policy to trade sales (attached). BA won't even interline BA to BA on separate PNRs!

 

[Sdtravel]

BA has also released their changed policy to trade sales (attached). BA won't even interline BA to BA on separate PNRs!

Well that jus sucks. BA i feel while a founding partner dont like to play ball. All the alliance documents say that BA dont provide priority baggage.

Hopefully we can get some wording from RED ROO that is positive.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks for the explanation madrooster - but my view is that none of that should be the concern of the passenger! Airlines should sort it out and get back to providing a service for passengers, not excuses!

 

[madrooster]

Thanks for the explanation madrooster - but my view is that none of that should be the concern of the passenger! Airlines should sort it out and get back to providing a service for passengers, not excuses!

The fact is this was never an officially published benefit so the official line really is, if you buy separate tickets, you need to collect and recheck... it's as simple as that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The fact is this was never an officially published benefit so the official line really is, if you buy separate tickets, you need to collect and recheck... it's as simple as that.

Published by whom to which market? QF published it as policy to passengers. It's not for the passenger to look behind the commercial arrangements or system limitations of airlines... if an airline says it's part of an alliance and will through check baggage on that basis, we shouldn't need to try an understand the ins and outs of that.

It's like the QF downgrade refund policy. Whatever appears in an 'agent only' system is of no relevance to the passenger. it doesn't form part of our contract with the airline.

 

[amaroo]

Jeez, TA must be smiling this morning! We make award/revenue bookings all the time that have "other OW bookings" squeezed in the middle and bookended either side .... hopefully, airlines will peg this service based on status.

 

[madrooster]

QF published it as policy to passengers.

Other than QF-QF interlining, where is it published as policy that QF will interline to oneworld carriers? I don't recall seeing it on the checked baggage page.

 

[cmon0005]

An example of where I want to book a single PNR online with QF but can't due to the stupid booking engine on a simple point to point booking (not multi-city).
Melbourne - Singapore - Colombo - Male(Maldives)
QF - UL - UL

Qantas site only allows me to search for Economy on this route, when I select Business (for any date) it fails to search. Even though J is available on the SIN-CMB-MLE route on UL with all fare buckets available. So again I have to call QF to make this booking and fight to have the $80 phone fee waived.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Other than QF-QF interlining, where is it published as policy that QF will interline to oneworld carriers? I don't recall seeing it on the checked baggage page.

I provided the link in post #9:

Note: Your baggage will not be checked through and you will not receive your onward journey boarding pass if you hold two separate reservations for your international trip, where one reservation is with Qantas and the other reservation is with an airline that is neither Qantas, Emirates or a oneworld airline. Please allow enough time to collect your baggage at the end of each flight, clear customs and immigration if necessary, transit visa requirements, move between different terminals and re-check in with your next carrier.

QF will through check provided your separate ticket is to QF, EK or another OW airline.

This is consistent with the messaging QF provided when they stopped the through checking of bags to non-OW carriers following the Iceland volcano disruptions.

 

[madrooster]

Jeez, TA must be smiling this morning! We make award/revenue bookings all the time that have "other OW bookings" squeezed in the middle and bookended either side .... hopefully, airlines will peg this service based on status.

It's possible to stick revenue bookings on the same PNR as an award ticket as a TA too (with QFF).

 

[puppysparkes]

Ultimately it is pax convenience that will solidify the process. If it doesn't work complain about the inconvenience. The decision makers probably didn't think this through if they flew often.

 

[amaroo]

It's possible to stick revenue bookings on the same PNR as an award PNR as a TA too (with QFF).

Cheers, looks like I'll need to find a good TA. Been booking independently for the past 10+ years without a worry in the world... however, these changes (when enforced) make me cold.

TBH, I'd rate this service higher than just about all status benefits...hopefully, sanity prevails and they at least provide FOC for high status flyers.

 

[madrooster]

I provided the link in post #9:



QF will through check provided your separate ticket is to QF, EK or another OW airline.

This is consistent with the messaging QF provided when they stopped the through checking of bags to non-OW carriers following the Iceland volcano disruptions.

To quote from the link that you provided in post #9 (bolding is mine):

Yes, if both your flights are booked on the same single reservation and your flights are all with Qantas or Qantas, Emirates and/or and another oneworld® airline your baggage will be transferred between flights for you. You may need to check-in at the connecting point to obtain your next boarding pass from another oneworld carrier.

Same single reservation for all intents and purposes means single PNR.

An issue here is that clarity is required on the terms PNR and ticket:

Ticket does not equal PNR.
A ticket lives attached to a PNR.
A ticket can become detached from a PNR (and reattached).
A PNR can have multiple tickets attached (think a tree with multiple branches/leaves).

Cheers, looks like I'll need to find a good TA. Been booking independently for the past 10+ years without a worry in the world... however, these changes (when enforced) make me cold.

TBH, I'd rate this service higher than just about all status benefits...hopefully, sanity prevails and they at least provide FOC for high status flyers.

I should clarify it's perfectly possible to issue a revenue ticket inside an existing PNR that contains an award ticket. So the PNR would contain an award ticket + a revenue ticket.

In the case of QFF, I believe it's only possible for TAs that are Amadeus users.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

To quote from the link that you provided in post #9 (bolding is mine):



Same single reservation for all intents and purposes means single PNR.

An issue here is that clarity is required on the terms PNR and ticket:

Ticket does not equal PNR.
A ticket lives attached to a PNR.
A ticket can become detached from a PNR (and reattached).
A PNR can have multiple tickets attached (think a tree with multiple branches/leaves).

The link says separate tickets will not be through checked unless to QF, EK or OW. The implication, clearly supported by QF at the time, was that QF->OW would still take place, even over separate tickets.

The 'same single reservation' is a red herring, designed to make most people think they need a single ticket. But the supporting words are clear in their operation and meaning regarding separate tickets an QF->QF, EK or OW. QF supported this definition at the time it was introduced (and had a policy to that effect in place).

 

[madrooster]

The link says separate tickets will not be through checked unless to QF, EK or OW. The implication, clearly supported by QF at the time, was that QF->OW would still take place, even over separate tickets.

The 'same single reservation' is a red herring, designed to make most people think they need a single ticket. But the supporting words are clear in their operation and meaning regarding separate tickets an QF->QF, EK or OW. QF supported this definition at the time it was introduced (and had a policy to that effect in place).

It's implied but not stated at all. In fact that page leaves it out entirely as a possible scenario, yet covers the negated version of that scenario...

Single reservation may be a red herring to you, but the term reservation is used to refer to the PNR or booking record (for non flight providers) in the industry. If they wanted to mean single ticket (ie. same ticket number), they would state so. Reservation and ticket are two different things and these are pretty clear cut in widely used industry terminology.

The table provided by BA and CX were examples provided by oneworld to member carriers about this recent change (albeit modified example airport codes). That table clearly states the differences and in my opinion is what all oneworld carriers should make available publicly for consistency.

 

[madrooster]

An example of where I want to book a single PNR online with QF but can't due to the stupid booking engine on a simple point to point booking (not multi-city).
Melbourne - Singapore - Colombo - Male(Maldives)
QF - UL - UL

Qantas site only allows me to search for Economy on this route, when I select Business (for any date) it fails to search. Even though J is available on the SIN-CMB-MLE route on UL with all fare buckets available. So again I have to call QF to make this booking and fight to have the $80 phone fee waived.

The reason why the QF booking engine refuses to price it in J, is because QF restricts the booking engine to fares published by QF (like most other airline websites). QF does not publish any fares in J for MEL/MLE, however they do publish fares in Y for MEL/MLE.

The fare you're after, would be a UL fare that interlines with QF, and those fares require UL ticket stock so QF can't sell it to you anyway.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It's implied but not stated at all.

That's why the context is important. All the supporting statements from QF at the time the change was introduced made it clear that two separate tickets/PNRs would be covered provided it was QF to OW. In that context the FAQ provides written (public) confirmation.

The context at the time is reflected in this agent bulletin - Q4 - Exemptions: http://www.qantas.com/agents/dyn/qf/policies/ReadytoFlyFAQ191010.pdf

 

[cmon0005]

The reason why the QF booking engine refuses to price it in J, is because QF restricts the booking engine to fares published by QF (like most other airline websites). QF does not publish any fares in J for MEL/MLE, however they do publish fares in Y for MEL/MLE.

The fare you're after, would be a UL fare that interlines with QF, and those fares require UL ticket stock so QF can't sell it to you anyway.

I am not quite sure what published fare means technically, but why couldn't QF 'publish' a J fare to MLE. They don't have any codeshares to MLE so no reason to restrict J fares based on competition.etc.. In this instance I would be forced to book QF in J to SIN, on one ticket, and then a UL ticket in J from SIN - CMB - MLE return.
Purchasing through UL site prices everything under UL flight number, including the QF legs which I don't want.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

All well and good but the member airlines have poor multicity booking tools and even poorer travel options on other oneworld airlines through their respective websites.

If the airlines are serious about this one PNR thing they should offer better multicity multicarrier online booking options then.

Even if they did make multi-city booking easier on the same ticket the airfare would be way more $$$ booked ex AU as it would be based on AU pricing ie expensive.

It's generally always cheaper to buy a J class fare ex SIN or BKK eg on UL via an OTA so in effect the ticket is 'sold' in those countries from the comfort of your lounge room home in Oz.

What the airlines want to avoid is people doing is taking advantage of different pricing in different markets.
They want you to pay for a full J fare to Europe for $6-7k instead of combining a $600 economy fare to Asia with a $2500 business class fare. Or even a $2000 Y fare instead of a $600 fare and $900 fare on separate tickets.

This is exactly it.

If a pax has paid BA 100 quid for a LHR/CPH ticket in Y or an award ticket using Avios, then a cheap QR J class CPH/xDOH/SYD via an OTA, BA don't want to be liable for any extra costs to transfer their pax to a different airline if their flight is late and the pax misconnects to QR.

There is nothing illegal or dodgy about a pax doing that but it highlights how the internet has made people masters of their own destiny rather than puppets where airlines were pulling the strings.

 

[wandering_fred]

To quote from the link that you provided in post #9 (bolding is mine):
Same single reservation for all intents and purposes means single PNR.
An issue here is that clarity is required on the terms PNR and ticket:
Ticket does not equal PNR.
A ticket lives attached to a PNR.
A ticket can become detached from a PNR (and reattached).
A PNR can have multiple tickets attached (think a tree with multiple branches/leaves).
I should clarify it's perfectly possible to issue a revenue ticket inside an existing PNR that contains an award ticket. So the PNR would contain an award ticket + a revenue ticket.
In the case of QFF, I believe it's only possible for TAs that are Amadeus users.

At least with the current QF policy of continuing to through check to OW partners, issuing multiple tickets within a PNR is not high priority (ok I'd do it for short connections at the transfer point). Though I would love to see some examples so that other TAs can be educated.

My issue is with the carriers (BA) that will not even through check between their own flights. Can you as a TA insert a LHR-ARN purchased segment into a QF award flight BA SIN-LHR? While I have had no incentive to fly BA recently, it is enough (when combined with the FF changes to provide premium earning only on the main carrier eg QF flights in QFF CX flights in MPC) to cause serious avoidance.

I have asked BA Customer Service about the impossibility of issuing combined award flights with purchased flights. I wonder if they will reply or have even considered it.

Happy wandering

Fred