Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Skyring]

Actually it is one of Tony Abbott's election promises, "he will substantially reduce the boats soon after coming to office" (or words to that effect). Way too much wiggle room there but when they increase then he will be shown to be a liar. Not fair but that is the standard of behaviour he has introduced to parliament.

So you see a broken promise as a lie?

What of Julia Gillard's own behaviour, three years ago, in promising no carbon tax and then breaking it when elected?

Be fair.

 

[amaroo]

That applies to most politicians, in my book.

Very true. It's just poor timing there is so much of it coming from the stinking corpse called the ALP.

 

[lovestotravel]

Actually it is one of Tony Abbott's election promises, "he will substantially reduce the boats soon after coming to office" (or words to that effect). Way too much wiggle room there but when they increase then he will be shown to be a liar. Not fair but that is the standard of behaviour he has introduced to parliament.

Sadly too many people fail to realise that sometimes things are totally out of control of the leader. If the situation changes or you have a better opportunity then you have to change your stance. It is how businesses survive or die. The Liberal party keeps talking about how only they can run the country, well surely they need to be able to take advantage of opportunities when they arise?

When did the ALP take over ?

http://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/05 Ab...y/BackgroundNotes/2012-13/BoatArrivals-2.ashx

Pretty easy to see from this

 

[Hvr]

When did the ALP take over ?

http://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/05 Ab...y/BackgroundNotes/2012-13/BoatArrivals-2.ashx

Pretty easy to see from this

And once Howard's illegal war in Afghanistan is declared over and Allied troops withdraw then the number of refugees will dramatically increase. Love to see how Abbott will blame the ALP for that? After all he will be in charge and actually have to start performing.

 

[lovestotravel]

When did the ALP take over ?

 

[Skyring]

If you said to your family that you weren't going to take the umbrella and then went outside and it was raining then naturally you would take the umbrella. When the situation changes then you need a changed response. That's what a leader does.

Julia Gillard broke her promise on the carbon tax because she rolled over for the Greens. What was she thinking if she thought that the Greens would support Tony Abbott rather than her? That was one Reps vote she had in her pocket. She didn't need to make ANY concession, let alone break a highly visible commitment.

That's poor leadership right there.

And if you need further evidence of her leadership skills, just ask the voters what they think. Or, I guess you could ask Caucus.

What this particular leader does is take Labor to a historic defeat, insisting that she can win, black is white and so on. The only thing sadder than watching her broadcast what she herself must know are deliberate untruths is seeing her supporters mindlessly defend such nonsense.

 

[drron]

A lie is saying that something is true whilst knowing it is false. Jullia Gillard had no intention of bringing in a carbon tax if elected in 2010, but then the electorate (us) delivered a hung parliament and the Greens and independents put theh carbon tax back on the table. Yep - JG could have said "But I promised I wouldn't so you'll have to give TA the job". She chose not to, assuming the electorate would understand. That was her second mistake.

So JG and Labour broke an election promise. Please find me a government who hasn't .....

[If you want examples of lies then you could goggle 'Tony Abbott lies' but don't bother unless you have a few hours to kill]

So you disagree with Medhead and HVR that TA lied when he sent the letter re electoral funding.TA wanted it but his party room rolled him.Ergo he did not lie.

 

[Skyring]

And once Howard's illegal war in Afghanistan...

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Citation needed.

 

[markis10]

Meanwhile in other news, businesses are finding it tough and had a record April for going belly up, without Pink Bats/School Halls/ Free Laptops or Family bribes to save them its not looking rosy for the economy:

Oz firms go bust in new April record | News.com.au

Almost 3450 companies have gone into administration so far this year, compared with 3524 during the same period in 2012.
But the number is higher than the opening four months of 2008 to 2011, which included the global financial crisis.

Read more: Oz firms go bust in new April record | News.com.au
​

 

[lovestotravel]

Yep it's only going to get worse, much worse before the end of the year and into next year!

Worlds best treasurer

 

[eastwest101]

Meanwhile in other news, businesses are finding it tough and had a record April for going belly up, without Pink Bats/School Halls/ Free Laptops or Family bribes to save them its not looking rosy for the economy:

Business conditions very tough - all expansion and discretionary investment put on hold in our company, and more redundancies as well. Not as many as the 2008 GFC redundancies but thats because the work force didn't really expand since 2008....

I think most industries are just battening down the hatches and waiting until next year now. From farmers, sole tradesmen, contractors/suppliers to shopkeepers I have heard the expression "sitting on our hands" a lot lately.

 

[Pushka]

We've been in business since 1992. We've seen so many of businesses 'in kind' simply disappear in the last five years. And so many discussions saying that its the toughest it's ever been. We are hanging in but have had to make significant changes to the way we do business. Actually can't blame Labor for this totally but there is such a negative consumer outlook eg in retail and I can't but attribute some of that to the negative thoughts about the government. I just hope there is some positivity back in the market come September.

 

[badseed]

On Asylum Seekers current policy from both the major parties is pure stupidity, both from a human rights perspective and economically. A vast majority of asylum seekers (greater than 65% in 2010/11) end up becoming permanent residents and then citizens of this country. What benefit does Australia gain long-term from exposing these future citizens and taxpayers to an environment which encourages mental health problems? And financially, the offshore boondoggle costs up to 90% more than processing on shore, in partnership with communities. We're effectively pissing money away to harm our own future citizens to make a few recalcitrants on talk radio or in Western Sydney happy.

I also don't actually understand the animosity towards the Carbox Tax - which in 2015 ceases to be a tax and becomes an Emissions Trading Scheme very similar to the one Howard and Costello went to the 2007 election promising to introduce. Most of the negativity has been a media beat-up, but it's the government's job to implement and clearly explain issues. The current government are not as bad as made out to be by Abbott and Co, but they have absolutely no idea how to run an effective media department. If you can't explain your actions or your intent as a governing organisation, how can the public trust that what you implement will be right for the country?

I personally hope (as a centre-leftie who would never, ever vote for the current 1950s version of LNP party) that the impending wipeout in September will force the ALP to re-examine it's very reason for existence. The union movement just doesn't resonate with a majority of Australians, who want to see a more pragmatic and co-operative approach.

However, I doubt they will. And the next mob in power will be just as bad, or worse until they get thrown out and the cycle continues...

 

[Moody]

Your concept of one person's reality and one person's denial are interesting. Abbots denial of bully boy tactics has been tested in court and has been found to be accurate. Gillard's denial of her dealings with Union accounts has yet to be tested in court..

I just want to make it very clear what a lie is :- An intentionally false statement. If you can agree with that then we can move on .... if you need more examples then Christopher Pyne's extraordinary claim this afternoon should suffice. When a senior jounalist calls you a liar on national TV you know you've reached the bottom of the gutter.

And Tony Abbott's victory in court over one incident amongst many does not settle the bully-boy debate. But if you feel it does, then be happy with your choice of Prime Minister.

Here is another link you can ignore if you like - not a pro-Abbott site for sure but has some interesting quotes from the court case ....

Tony Abbott: no means no to women’s opinions. |

 

[Pushka]

We did that story a few pages back. Remember you asked what his reason was as you hadn't actually read the article? Seems like a touch on the back became a nasty grope. Trouble was there were witnesses.

 

[whatmeworry]

So if Abbott gets in and starts cutting the budget like crazy, will we get a deep recession?

 

[Sprucegoose]

So if Abbott gets in and starts cutting the budget like crazy, will we get a deep recession?

A deep recession will sort the unions out.

 

[drron]

So if Abbott gets in and starts cutting the budget like crazy, will we get a deep recession?

We are already heading for one.This is not just my opinion but that of the Secretary of the Treasury and Ross Garnaut.Articles about it by Max walsh in AFR and David Uren in the Australian.If you google them you can get behind the pay wall.

 

[Deleted member]

A deep recession will sort the unions out.

The recession we need to have.

 

[whatmeworry]

Then again if mad monk Abbott keeps all his spending promises... Come on we know he will renege on most of his promises (because they weren't written down), slash government spending on everything whether it is good or bad and then most likely keep most labour's new taxes and raise the GST. Welcome to the Thatcher period of Australian history ala Tony Abbott Style.