Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pukka]

And ironically WorkChoices MkII will be introduced after the election.

Good bring it on the current situation is a joke I'm not trying to get rid of good staff but it would be nice to get rid of the hopeless ones without paying them thousands in compensation

 

[Hvr]

Good bring it on the current situation is a joke I'm not trying to get rid of good staff but it would be nice to get rid of the hopeless ones without paying them thousands in compensation

Sounds like you need to improve your recruitment process and use probation properly.

There was a recent report noting that most people who claimed for wrongful dismissal didn't get anything. Why are your people getting thousands?

 

[amaroo]

And ironically WorkChoices MkII will be introduced after the election.

They definitely need to wind back these ridiculous IR laws that Gillard has introduced. It's no coincidence that the country is going down hill after the introduction of 18th century thinking/policy.

As a small business operator......with a wife that has a larger business - this Government has made it harder to employ people - what's smart about that?

Businesses are struggling.....Government can't employ everyone!

When the old guard (Kelty, Crean, Ferguson, Hawke, etc) of the ALP start bagging their own party policy - it must be rotten.

The ALP needs people with real life experience.......drawing from the same shallow pool of losers has been their achilles heel!

 

[Pukka]

No one has received anything but I did have the ridiculous situation recently where someone was under investigation from a regulatory body ( quite rightly ) and if I sacked them there was potentially unlimited compensation and he's on over $200k a year so sometimes you need to tread carefully

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

What's wrong with the current NoWorkChoices 1976 policy?

 

[amaroo]

No one has received anything but I did have the ridiculous situation recently where someone was under investigation from a regulatory body ( quite rightly ) and if I sacked them there was potentially unlimited compensation and he's on over $200k a year so sometimes you need to tread carefully

Thats the difference between a real life situation......and just sitting in a Gov office worrying about your entitlement issues

 

[whatmeworry]

The ALP needs people with real life experience.......drawing from the same shallow pool of losers has been their achilles heel!

Like Tony Abbott a so called hard core Catholic but is a failed priest, a child born out of wedlock and who could not decide upon a career but who essentially has been a liberal party staffer since his Uni Days?

Does the Liberal party only let people who have been party staffers, Lawyers and property developers join their party?

 

[amaroo]

an adulterer

Are you sure that's correct?

 

[whatmeworry]

Are you sure that's correct?

Sorry incorrect term. Although there has been allegations of him being unfaithful.

 

[amaroo]

Sorry incorrect term. Although there has been allegations of him being unfaithful.

ALP dirty tricks - 101........any accusation will suffice.

 

[whatmeworry]

Another claim of Abbott trying to assault someone.

''I didn't think the cough should get away with it,'' Mr Woof says. ''He wasn't a liked person … it wasn't his politics, it was the way he implemented his politics.''

Read more: Fresh Abbott punch claim
​

 

[drron]

Like Tony Abbott a so called hard core Catholic but is a failed priest, a child born out of wedlock and who could not decide upon a career but who essentially has been a liberal party staffer since his Uni Days?

Does the Liberal party only let people who have been party staffers, Lawyers and property developers join their party?

Does this come out of John McTernan's playbook.First he worked as a journalist.Then Executive Director of Australian's for a Constitutional Monarchy.And you have totally overlooked his activities since being a politician-Surf life saving,volunteer fire fighter,working in a remote indigenous settlement for a week each year-it took the ALP and the press a couple of years to find out and then to try and denigrate this effort.As for property developers look up Eddie Obeid and his mates.And the supposed child out of wedlock was not his on DNA evidence-that was a fact nearly 10 years agr do we disqualify everyone who has pre marital sex from being a politician?

 

[Pushka]

We recently put on someone full time whom we had employed on a casual basis for three months prior. During the contract period he was brilliant. Creative, never watched the clock, etc etc. Within a couple of weeks of full time employment that person had vanished. Came in late. Left early. Long lunch hours. Showed no initiative and had to be told to do things that before they had automatically picked up.

Seriously HVR you are not an employer and have no understanding of the complexities of performance management so maybe this part of the discussion isn't relevant for you.

The child out of wedlock was proved incorrect almost as soon as it was released. But in any case, who cares? Are you suggesting that people who have sex out of wedlock shouldn't be politicians? Coz that's where babies come from. Maybe let's ban gays while we are at it. Interesting how some of these stories are now resurfacing.

I see Rudd is now on a whirlwind tour of Australia. Naughty boy ruddy but I smile whenever I see his cheeky round face.

 

[DaveB]

You think unfair dismissal laws are difficult to deal with, try the Oz Human Rights Commission. An ex-employee knew he had no case for unfair dismissal so tried me on for damages relating to alleged victimisation and loss due to his size and weight.

 

[Hvr]

<snip>
Seriously HVR you are not an employer and have no understanding of the complexities of performance management so maybe this part of the discussion isn't relevant for you.

<snip>.

How condescending! Whilst I am not an employer, nor have I ever claimed to be one, it should be noted that large employers employ people to advise and assist managers during the performance management process. That is my experience and I did it for several years. This included intervening in the process and showing managers how to actually work through the process for a successful outcome including dismissal where appropriate.

None of the dismissals I recommended (and were implemented by the relevant manager) were ever successfully challenged by an external body.

My biggest problems were with incompetent managers who refused to follow the process and actually worsened the problem. Some managers were exposed and dealt with by their managers. A very good outcome for the business.

I loved it when a manager rang me up at the earliest indication and said "I think I have a problem". We could work together to rectify the issue and minimise the impact on their business. If dismissal was warranted then we could speed up the process and have it properly documented. If remedial action was warranted and the employee/employer relationship could be restored then sometimes it was.

I do have a working understanding of the complexities of performance management and will comment as appropriate regardless of your ill informed opinion. You previously commented on employees receiving large payouts when not warranted and then when it was pointed out that this was rare you admitted you actually hadn't paid any money.

 

[Pushka]

I find your advice to small businesses to be very condescending also HVR. Small businesses do not have the luxury of employing people to manage others. It is bad enough managing all the additional paperwork that we currently have to do, plus things like making superannuation payments to multitudes of super funds each month due to super choice. Let alone find the time to actually do the paid work.

Can't remember what your last sentence is about though.

 

[amaroo]

I find your advice to small businesses to be very condescending also HVR. Small businesses do not have the luxury of employing people to manage others. It is bad enough managing all the additional paperwork that we currently have to do, plus things like making superannuation payments to multitudes of super funds each month due to super choice. Let alone find the time to actually do the paid work.

Can't remember what your last sentence is about though.

What - surely all businesses can afford to spend 6+ months jumping through hoops managing a non-performer out of your life

 

[Pushka]

What - surely all businesses can afford to spend 6+ months jumping through hoops managing a non-performer out of your life

Yes, that would be after three written warnings. which of course could only come after several attempts at performance management after several transgressions in order to get to that stage.

Of course there needs to be due process when a person isn't performing according to their job descriptions. Just as there needs to be a process to assist people who experience a poor working environment. But just at the moment all we are doing is swinging the pendulum.

HVR, I should moderate my initial comment about your knowledge of Performance Management. Of course you do have knowledge of this (or I shouldn't have assumed you didn't) however, most of us here are not in large corporations, we are simply small businesses, employing maybe up to 30 people (total guess here). And the amount of "non chargeable" additional work we now have to do before we can start earning, is mind blowing. Of course it was Howard who started this with GST; but things like Super Choice, when you may have 30 different Super Funds, who all have their own methods of log in/receiving paperwork/making contributions etc is staggering.

And then we have Government advertisements for Super, which will rise by .25% making it seem like they are going to be paying for it. They are not, it has to come from businesses themselves.

Small businesses are the life blood of this country but enough is enough. No wonder there are so many empty shops and retail premises empty these days.

 

[Pukka]

Yes, that would be after three written warnings. which of course could only come after several attempts at performance management after several transgressions in order to get to that stage.

Of course there needs to be due process when a person isn't performing according to their job descriptions. Just as there needs to be a process to assist people who experience a poor working environment. But just at the moment all we are doing is swinging the pendulum.

HVR, I should moderate my initial comment about your knowledge of Performance Management. Of course you do have knowledge of this (or I shouldn't have assumed you didn't) however, most of us here are not in large corporations, we are simply small businesses, employing maybe up to 30 people (total guess here).

And in my case my discussion with mediator went something like

(Which was after 3 months of paid stress leave (when you cant touch them) because someone made a complaint against them)

I was asked did you give him a job description?

He's a dentist he should know what to do he studied for 5 years at UNI

No it needs to be written down.

Are you serious

Very

$@!$#%**¥*

 

[Hvr]

Good bring it on the current situation is a joke I'm not trying to get rid of good staff but it would be nice to get rid of the hopeless ones without paying them thousands in compensation

Sounds like you need to improve your recruitment process and use probation properly.

There was a recent report noting that most people who claimed for wrongful dismissal didn't get anything. Why are your people getting thousands?

No one has received anything but I did have the ridiculous situation recently where someone was under investigation from a regulatory body ( quite rightly ) and if I sacked them there was potentially unlimited compensation and he's on over $200k a year so sometimes you need to tread carefully

<snip>

I do have a working understanding of the complexities of performance management and will comment as appropriate regardless of your ill informed opinion. You previously commented on employees receiving large payouts when not warranted and then when it was pointed out that this was rare you admitted you actually hadn't paid any money.

<snip>
Can't remember what your last sentence is about though.

All in one post for you with the relevant bits bolded.