Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[drron]

Moody just because I have pointed out I have been a member of a political party does not make me biased and you unbiased.There are plenty on this forum that would agree with me that politically you are biased even if you don't want to admit it.
And come on,really.Do you believe all the rubbish that you write.
Mal Brough has not been found guilty of doing anything illegal.

Again this last post of yours confirm your bias.Mal brough is guilty because of an allegation but JG is innocent.Sorry it doesn't work that way.

 

[tgh]

She may actually get a long holiday at public expense when due process ceases to be stymied.

 

[Moody]

Moody just because I have pointed out I have been a member of a political party does not make me biased and you unbiased.There are plenty on this forum that would agree with me that politically you are biased even if you don't want to admit it.
And come on,really.Do you believe all the rubbish that you write.
Mal Brough has not been found guilty of doing anything illegal.

Again this last post of yours confirm your bias.Mal brough is guilty because of an allegation but JG is innocent.Sorry it doesn't work that way.

Everybody is biassed, drron. Some more than others, and those that are members of political parties are the most biassed of all - don't you agree?

What particular "rubbish" are you specifically referring to? I am happy to be corrected on anything I have said in error, but not so happy about words being put in my mouth by those that wouldn't know the truth if it poked them in the eye.

Mal Brough has not been found guilty of anything in a court of law (to my knowledge), but is being investigated by the AFP over his role in the coughised Ashby sexual harassment case. So he is innocent before the law (though currently on shaky ground). What he has definitely been guilty of is lying about his involvement in the Ashby debacle, conspiring to use the case to bring down Slipper, and receiving stolen goods (Slipper's diary).

Julia Gillard has also not been found guilty of anything in a court of law (or even been charged to my knowledge). You say she is being investigated in relation to the AWU scandal .... and that could be true. The allegations are that she knowingly took part in the fraud cooked up by Wilson and Blewitt, and benifitted directly by paying for house renovations out of the slush fund. Slater and Gordon found that she didn't do anything illegal from their point of view, but were uncomfortable with the pro-bono work she had done for then boyfriend Wilson. (That is my intepretation anyway.)

If the police believe they have the evidence to secure a conviction then I'm sure they will bring charges to bear. Then Julia will have to rustle up 7 witnesses, but it will all be in a good cause.

That last bit was a joke, BTW.

 

[Skyring]

Everybody is biassed, drron. Some more than others, and those that are members of political parties are the most biassed of all - don't you agree?

I'd put lovers and fundamentalists in that category.

I'm reminded of the astrophysicist employed by the Creationist theme park in Kentucky. When quizzed about how he can reconcile science with a literal interpretation of the Bible he isn't fazed: "If we find some experiment that seems, on the surface, to disagree with the word of God, we go with the word of God."

[video=youtube;qym-ZE5XQzw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qym-ZE5XQzw[/video]

This sort of sincere belief in nonsense - the sort of belief that can accept a Jurassic Park sort of existence for the first humans five thousand years ago - makes every statement suspect. Delivered with a straight face and an unshakeable faith, the normal indicators of dishonesty fail us.

This is the sort of fervent self-delusion that keeps Rudd campaigning when a sober assessment of his chances would indicate he'd be better off pulling his head in. The sort of "my side can do no wrong, therefore the other team must be full of cough" faith that sustains the fervent but shallow believer in a particular brand of computer, alcohol, politics, football or religion.

Look at the mantra of support for the PM that we are seeing trotted out whenever a microphone is thrust in the face of a member of Caucus. Does anybody sincerely believe that Julia Gillard is the best person to lead the ALP to victory in September? Only if they have got that bias switch in their heads flipped so firmly on that they must have difficulty walking in a straight line.

Like the scientist who can swallow a brontosaurus burger, their every utterance must be taken with a grain of salt. Like a talkative drunk, one smiles and agrees with everything they say, but one has a plastic bucket ready to hand for the inevitable.

 

[JohnK]

So politicians have received another pay rise?

Was that based on their performance and meeting their KPIs? Some people have it easy.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

"She's the right person to lead the party in September, and she will lead the party in September."
AWU Backing Julia Gillard

Gillard has the ALP on track to lead the party to a wipeout and she's the right person to be leader. I've been saying it all along: the wildest and most incredible claims emerge in the dying days of a regime. Things are only going to get more and more entertaining in the next few weeks!

 

[JohnK]

I'm reminded of the astrophysicist employed by the Creationist theme park in Kentucky. When quizzed about how he can reconcile science with a literal interpretation of the Bible he isn't fazed: "If we find some experiment that seems, on the surface, to disagree with the word of God, we go with the word of God."

Actually that is a discussion for another forum on another day but humanity is so stupid it is almost unbelievable.

We are now at a time in our evolution where we will soon be able to modify the genetics of humans and God forbid create other humans via cloning. In a way we are actually creating other humans with in-vitro fertilation anyway.

So humans can create but we were not created? So much for the Creationist theory having no substance at all or are we humans that arrogant that we have accidentally given the Creationist theory the proof that it should never have needed in the first place?

By the way I do know what happened and I do not need some "human" to tell me their version.

 

[Skyring]

Actually that is a discussion for another forum on another day but humanity is so stupid it is almost unbelievable.

Not wanting to stir up that discussion here - mixing religion and politics is a recipe for disaster - so much as to illustrate sincere bias.

If one starts with the position that the ALP or Kevin Rudd or Julia Gillard is always correct and incapable of error, then one can declaim all sorts of nonsense with a straight face.

 

[drron]

Moody everyone is biased.but I disagree that just because you belong to a political party you are more biased.If you really believe that do you believe JG is more biased than most in this thread?
The rubbish is your continuing on about Mal Brough.I live in the electorate of fisher.I have an obvious interest in politics.Mal Brough had already brought Peter Slipper down before the Ashby affair.Slipper knew that(as I suspect the minister involved in discussions with Slipper did) and that is why he jumped at the offer of the speakership.
I will grant that many in the Liberal party are openly hostile to Mr. Slipper due to his defection.That is human nature.The ALP has a history in these matters too-John Kerr,Senators Field and Colson and Mark Latham just to mention a few.

 

[drross]

So politicians have received another pay rise?

Was that based on their performance and meeting their KPIs? Some people have it easy.

another pay rise. Apparently someone has worked out the rise is the same as the wages of 200 teachers! According to news website

 

[drross]

i hope she stays. It would be terrible if she ducked the electorates response now

Agree totally but another rumour is that Kevin is re elected as leader, and won't go to the polls in Sept. he'll go as late as possible (feb 2014) as he tries to build support in the electorate. JG hasn't formally submitted details regarding the election yet so the date isn't fixed. Don't you just love rumours.

 

[Hvr]

Not wanting to stir up that discussion here - mixing religion and politics is a recipe for disaster - so much as to illustrate sincere bias.

If one starts with the position that the ALP or Kevin Rudd or Julia Gillard is always correct and incapable of error, then one can declaim all sorts of nonsense with a straight face.

And yet that is the sort of tripe that is spun about Tony Abbott and the Liberal party.

 

[Moody]

Moody everyone is biased.but I disagree that just because you belong to a political party you are more biased.If you really believe that do you believe JG is more biased than most in this thread?.

I agree that membership of a political party is not an absolute indicator of extreme bias, but the way the game is played these days does not allow honesty. So Julia Gillard says she is the best person to lead Labour to the next election when she isn't. and Kevin Rudd is rallying the troops with messages of positivity when he knows it is just a matter of how big the defeat will be. Others further down the chain claim that their mob can do no wrong, which is patent krap ..... which I will come to now.

The rubbish is your continuing on about Mal Brough.I live in the electorate of fisher.I have an obvious interest in politics.Mal Brough had already brought Peter Slipper down before the Ashby affair.Slipper knew that(as I suspect the minister involved in discussions with Slipper did) and that is why he jumped at the offer of the speakership.

By "rubbish" do you mean my claim that Brough lied about his involvement in the Ashby affair, which is a fact you seem reluctant to admit?
Or is it the claim that he conspired with Ashby to release irrelevant information under the guise of the sexual harassment case, which caused the judge to abort the trial because of the debasement of the judicial system?
Or is it the claim that Ashby supplied Brough with stolen documents (Slipper's diary), which is the subject of a police investigation?

I would call these facts, you seem to call them bias. Strange grasp of english .....

I will grant that many in the Liberal party are openly hostile to Mr. Slipper due to his defection.That is human nature.The ALP has a history in these matters too-John Kerr,Senators Field and Colson and Mark Latham just to mention a few.

There have been countless rogues in politics (I'm surprised you didn't mention Eddie) and the failure of the parties to deal with them in a timely manner does not reflect well on them.

 

[Skyring]

Agree totally but another rumour is that Kevin is re elected as leader, and won't go to the polls in Sept. he'll go as late as possible (feb 2014) as he tries to build support in the electorate. JG hasn't formally submitted details regarding the election yet so the date isn't fixed. Don't you just love rumours.

30 November is the last possible date for the election, as Antony Green points out: Antony Green's Election Blog: Alternatives to an Election on 14 September

My guess is that Rudd would want to go sooner rather than later. His popularity rests on the fact that he isn't Julia Gillard and he is seen as having been unfairly dethroned. The more time he spends as leader means the more time Tony Abbott can work on him. TA pretty well demolished Rudd in 2010, he'll happily do it again in 2013.

More crucially, I think, is that Rudd would be head of an even more disunited and dysfunctional party. His leadership style is unique, not closely admired by those who work under him. He's not a team player. He is hated by his own party.

I could see that he could push Gillard out of the way - she's pretty much defunct now - on the condition that he call an election as soon as possible, which means 3 August and no more sitting days to be exposed to Tony Abbott's needling in Question Time.

 

[drross]

Thanks Skyring

 

[drron]

I agree that membership of a political party is not an absolute indicator of extreme bias, but the way the game is played these days does not allow honesty. So Julia Gillard says she is the best person to lead Labour to the next election when she isn't. and Kevin Rudd is rallying the troops with messages of positivity when he knows it is just a matter of how big the defeat will be. Others further down the chain claim that their mob can do no wrong, which is patent krap ..... which I will come to now.

I certainly have known politicians who are honest.I have known a lot of people who are not members of a political party who are dishonest

By "rubbish" do you mean my claim that Brough lied about his involvement in the Ashby affair, which is a fact you seem reluctant to admit?
Or is it the claim that he conspired with Ashby to release irrelevant information under the guise of the sexual harassment case, which caused the judge to abort the trial because of the debasement of the judicial system?
Or is it the claim that Ashby supplied Brough with stolen documents (Slipper's diary), which is the subject of a police investigation?

I would call these facts, you seem to call them bias. Strange grasp of english .....

These at present are allegations,not facts.They have not been tested in a court of law.Peter Slipper had the chance of calling Mal Brough as a witness and make him answer questions under oath.He didn't.
Ashby was paid $50000 by the Government to end the case.Doesn't sound like everyone agrees with you.




There have been countless rogues in politics (I'm surprised you didn't mention Eddie) and the failure of the parties to deal with them in a timely manner does not reflect well on them.

And by implication comparing Mal Brough to Eddie Obeid is typical of your biased rubbish.

 

[Pukka]

Agree totally but another rumour is that Kevin is re elected as leader, and won't go to the polls in Sept. he'll go as late as possible (feb 2014) as he tries to build support in the electorate. JG hasn't formally submitted details regarding the election yet so the date isn't fixed. Don't you just love rumours.

Surely KRudd would go ASAP I mean he would have to sack the whole cabinet as they all hate him his only chance is a snap election

 

[Moody]

And by implication comparing Mal Brough to Eddie Obeid is typical of your biased rubbish.

I did not compare Eddie Obeid with Mal Brough - I was adding him to your own list. When are you going to stop lying? Sorry - I retract that Ms Speaker - when are you going to stop distorting the truth, drron? I thought you had given up being a politician ...

 

[drron]

I did not compare Eddie Obeid with Mal Brough - I was adding him to your own list. When are you going to stop lying? Sorry - I retract that Ms Speaker - when are you going to stop distorting the truth, drron? I thought you had given up being a politician ...

I am not the one distorting the truth.

 

[whatmeworry]

Interesting polls out today.